Free Healthcare

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What do you think should be done with a people who show up at the ER with a heart attack or have been in a bad accident but who do not have insurance?

Don’t treat them?
Treat them for free? Who pays?
Treat them and have them pay the very small % they can pay? Who pays the rest?:confused:
 
Michael_Mayo said:
What do you think should be done with a people who show up at the ER with a heart attack or have been in a bad accident but who do not have insurance?

Don’t treat them?
Treat them for free? Who pays?
Treat them and have them pay the very small % they can pay? Who pays the rest?:confused:
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Ah, Now we come to it.

We Catholics see the needs of the poor - yes? I absolutely hate it. I hate that people suffer. It does not need to be this way.

Yes. What about those that can not fend for themselves? Be they legal or illegal. Out of work or just barely making it.

As Jesus said - ‘the poor you will always have with you.’-paraphrased no doubt. Too many people see this as an excuse to abandon the poor IMHO because they will always be there ergo why bother?🤷

The poor ‘judge’ us as a society methinks. We fail in our Christian Duties if we neglect such.

Methinks if everyone actually *did *the ‘Fatima Peace Plan’, -ie actually prayed the Rosary daily, we would not be having this conversation right now.

So. back to your question.

Other than putting to work the Fatima Peace plan, my answer to your question is simply this:

I have no clue. 😊

I could sagaciously wax on for** hours** in terms of many practical solutions (like dealing with the corruption of the pharmacists I mentioned above) and maybe even start to believe my own words. I could* maybe* even get others to believe me.
This would be hubris.

It is *not *my Job to be a government official and to know what the solution is. It is not my calling. God has called others there for that. My job is to educate myself and to vote to the best of my ability and to listen to my Bishops.

That said.

I do see the evils of Obama care. I do see the 5 non negotiables being trashed via Obama Care. I do see Religous Freedoms being** trashed** there as well. I do see those of dubious intent (the Democratic Leadership) oppurtunistically capitalizing on human misery. I do see said leadership **lying in the name of Catholicism.:mad: I do see nefarious funding sources behind Obama Care - i.e. - Planned Parenthood. I do see the lies of the economics of Obama Care being purported as truth. I have seen socialized medicine as practiced elsewhere in other Nations and it is *not *pretty. I do know how Govt. works, as I have worked for Govt Hospitals for 30 + years.

One thing I **know **in the depths of my heart is that Obama care will only worsen the problem.

To me, given just the few reasons I mentioned above, it is obvious that it must be stopped at all costs.

Don’t take my word for it. Just ask the Bishops.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
What do you think should be done with a people who show up at the ER with a heart attack or have been in a bad accident but who do not have insurance?

Don’t treat them?
Treat them for free? Who pays?
Treat them and have them pay the very small % they can pay? Who pays the rest?:confused:
Click to expand...
First, as mentioned earlier in this thread, it seems that those who are supposed to cover those unpaid bills are those who have no insurance. I forget the numbers, bit X costs $200 to Medicare, $400 to an insurance comalny, and $1000 to an uninsured person, which seems like a viciois cycle since they are least likely to be able to lay the inflated bill which is supposed to cover the unpaid bills of others.

The reality is this: the ER costs *at least *ten times what an urgent care clinic would cost. What’s up with that? Emergency services are way over-utilized because the insurance covers them differently: for the poor, the transporation is paid for, for others, insurance pays a higher percentage of the bills. Maybe we could figure out a way to reduce costs there by changing the rules: maybe Medicare could have a transpost allowance built in, and the lower parts of the bills be treated in a way to encourage people to go to the urgent care instead of the ER.

Overall, however, the main problem with Obamacare is that they did not search out the source of the problem and come up with a way to fix that. They just put 2,000 band-aids on a system which was not working.
 
Nimzovik said:
Health Care: Eliminate the middle man - government - and give the Helathcare tax dollar back to the citizen so he can shop for the Health care he/she wants!
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Some could also make an argument that insurance companies are even more “middle-men” than the gov’t has ever been until now (regarding health care).

For example, I would like to see a health savings account system which was not linked directly to insurance companies, perhaps subsidized slightly by gov’t according to income. (The more the consumer saves, the more the gov’t subsidizes.)
 
Michael_Mayo said:
What do you think should be done with a people who show up at the ER with a heart attack or have been in a bad accident but who do not have insurance?

Don’t treat them?
Treat them for free? Who pays?
Treat them and have them pay the very small % they can pay? Who pays the rest?:confused:
Click to expand...
Treat them, and if they have no insurance, nor have opened any kind of a dedicated savings account, they go on a government-enforced payment arrangement for the balance – whether that takes one year or 20+ years. By the way, that’s what happens in my region when someone gets fined by the Court for a moving traffic violation – such as the kind that cannot be reduced by law. You have what’s called a Court-Ordered Debt. Doesn’t matter how poor you are; everyone pays the same amount; it’s just paid over varying time periods. Eventually, if you don’t pay it on time, the arrangement is cancelled and the government has the authority to seize (partly) your bank account.

This is why I’m for much more affordable insurance, and I don’t agree that only Obamacare as currently written offers affordable alternatives. Leveled care, including basic hospital insurance required of every medical insurance company, should be available to the lower middle class to prevent their bank accounts from being seized.

But it is also unfair to have a hospital shut down because it is overrun with patients who have no insurance and “doctors have to treat them.” That hospital might have a trauma unit or critical care unit which has a specialist doctor who’s been treating some responsible (but not rich) patient who will be endangered without that hospital nearby.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
What do you think should be done with a people who show up at the ER with a heart attack or have been in a bad accident but who do not have insurance?

Don’t treat them?
Treat them for free? Who pays?
Treat them and have them pay the very small % they can pay? Who pays the rest?:confused:
Click to expand...
The ER does treat them! It’s called the Hippocratic Oath AND The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act :banghead:

Your inane question is redundant.
 
austenbosten said:
The ER does treat them! It’s called the Hippocratic Oath AND The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act :banghead:

Your inane question is redundant.
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but the issue is who pays? With ACA, everyone will have insurance or they will pay a penalty/tax toward the cost of any medical care they might incur. Since hospitals will no longer have to make up the difference for caring for the uninsured, they don’t have to inflate the prices for those with insurance.
 
Seeker1961 said:
but the issue is who pays? With ACA, everyone will have insurance or they will pay a penalty/tax toward the cost of any medical care they might incur. Since hospitals will no longer have to make up the difference for caring for the uninsured, they don’t have to inflate the prices for those with insurance.
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I don’ think the fines are going to pay for unpaid hospital bills–I think it will go into the general fund. Will the government start paying unpaid bills?

And as has been pointed oit, the costs are not inflated for those *with *insurance, they are inflated for those *without *insurance. Insurance companies have negotiated rates with hospitals and all.
 
The basic problem with this bill is there’s no free lunch. You cannot both raise the amounts insurance companies will have to pay out (by removing caps and covering pre-existing conditions) *and *lower costs.
Michael_Mayo said:
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care act is indeed a large and complex enterprise and there truly is a great deal that is uncertain about its outcome.

We do know that it will

  1. *]Eliminate lifetime and unreasonable annual limits on benefits
    *] Prohibit rescissions of health insurance policies
    *] Provide assistance for those who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition
    *] Require coverage of preventive services and immunizations
    *] Extend dependant coverage up to age 26
    *] Develop uniform coverage documents so consumers can make apples-to-apples comparisons when shopping for health insurance
    *] Cap insurance company non-medical, administrative expenditures
    *] Ensure consumers have access to an effective appeals process and provide consumer a place to turn for assistance navigating the appeals process and accessing their coverage
    *]Create a temporary re-insurance program to support coverage for early retirees
    *] Establish an internet portal to assist Americans in identifying coverage options
    *] Facilitate administrative simplification to lower health system costs

    And provide coverage for nearly 32 million more people.

    That is better than doing nothing.

    Now for avoiding questions:

    How is supporting ACA that different from supporting the United States as a country while at the same time opposing its legal abortion? If it is that black and white we must reject USA as a whole or we are supporting evil.
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I wonder when the screaming will really begin…Once people finally understand what has happened…But it will be way too late then. Maybe people in general are just too dumbed down to ever grasp what they are losing and what their elected representatives have done. Not that the elected representatives even understand it, which is why it should never have passed. What a mess.

😦
 
Well, we will just have to see how it all works out. November elections will tell us what the nation really wants.
I still think Obamacare is better than the previous situation. There is a lot to work on and a lot to change, as the bishops point out. By the way, if you agree with the Bishops on this, how about the budget and immigration? I appreciate your views, though different from my own, and the thought you have given to this issue

and, austenbosten
austenbosten said:
The ER does treat them! It’s called the Hippocratic Oath AND The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act :banghead:

Your inane question is redundant.
Click to expand...
Why so snarky? You missed the point of my question completely. We all know they get treated. Now how do you think that care should be paid for?
 
Michael_Mayo said:
Well, we will just have to see how it all works out. November elections will tell us what the nation really wants.
I still think Obamacare is better than the previous situation. There is a lot to work on and a lot to change, as the bishops point out. By the way, if you agree with the Bishops on this, how about the budget and immigration? I appreciate your views, though different from my own, and the thought you have given to this issue.
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My own 2 cents is that because we hae a two-party system, we tend to think that one or the other mist be right, and there are only two solutions to every problem. As a result, our thinking tends to be severely limited.

As to the budget and immigration, a few bishops spoke out against it, and at least one disagreed with them, so I don’t think you can talk about “the Bishops” as if they had dogmatic answers.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
I wonder when the screaming will really begin…Once people finally understand what has happened…But it will be way too late then. Maybe people in general are just too dumbed down to ever grasp what they are losing and what their elected representatives have done. Not that the elected representatives even understand it, which is why it should never have passed. What a mess.

😦
Click to expand...
:thumbsup:You certainly hit the nail on the head with this post, didn’t you. 👍
 
Hmmmmmmm… the Faith Based Initiatives?

Methinks we Catholics might consider the idea of starting our own Health Care Polices and Facilities. Of course this could most likely be feasible only after Obama Care is gotten rid of…
 
Elizabeth502 said:
Treat them, and if they have no insurance, nor have opened any kind of a dedicated savings account, they go on a government-enforced payment arrangement for the balance – whether that takes one year or 20+ years. By the way, that’s what happens in my region when someone gets fined by the Court for a moving traffic violation – such as the kind that cannot be reduced by law. You have what’s called a Court-Ordered Debt. Doesn’t matter how poor you are; everyone pays the same amount; it’s just paid over varying time periods. Eventually, if you don’t pay it on time, the arrangement is cancelled and the government has the authority to seize (partly) your bank account.

This is why I’m for much more affordable insurance, and I don’t agree that only Obamacare as currently written offers affordable alternatives. Leveled care, including basic hospital insurance required of every medical insurance company, should be available to the lower middle class to prevent their bank accounts from being seized.

But it is also unfair to have a hospital shut down because it is overrun with patients who have no insurance and “doctors have to treat them.” That hospital might have a trauma unit or critical care unit which has a specialist doctor who’s been treating some responsible (but not rich) patient who will be endangered without that hospital nearby.
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Bold Lettering Mine:

Yikes! :eek: This is the last thing I personally would like to see. To me this idea is almost equivalent to debtors prison.
 
Nimzovik said:
Bold Lettering Mine:

Yikes! :eek: This is the last thing I personally would like to see. To me this idea is almost equivalent to debtors prison.
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They aren’t being put into jail, but people who owe child support are.

I don’t like the idea of seizing assets, what about garnishment?
 
Nimzovik said:
Bold Lettering Mine:

Yikes! :eek: This is the last thing I personally would like to see. To me this idea is almost equivalent to debtors prison.
Click to expand...
Even then, someone with low income will never pay off a $200,000 bill if they spend time in ICU, etc. Again the question becomes, who pays for it?
 
St_Francis said:
My own 2 cents is that because we hae a two-party system, we tend to think that one or the other mist be right, and there are only two solutions to every problem. As a result, our thinking tends to be severely limited.

As to the budget and immigration, a few bishops spoke out against it, and at least one disagreed with them, so I don’t think you can talk about “the Bishops” as if they had dogmatic answers.
Click to expand...
Even on the ACA?
 
Elizabeth502 said:
Treat them, and if they have no insurance, nor have opened any kind of a dedicated savings account, they go on a government-enforced payment arrangement for the balance – whether that takes one year or 20+ years. By the way, that’s what happens in my region when someone gets fined by the Court for a moving traffic violation – such as the kind that cannot be reduced by law. You have what’s called a Court-Ordered Debt. Doesn’t matter how poor you are; everyone pays the same amount; it’s just paid over varying time periods. Eventually, if you don’t pay it on time, the arrangement is cancelled and the government has the authority to seize (partly) your bank account.

This is why I’m for much more affordable insurance, and I don’t agree that only Obamacare as currently written offers affordable alternatives. Leveled care, including basic hospital insurance required of every medical insurance company, should be available to the lower middle class to prevent their bank accounts from being seized.

But it is also unfair to have a hospital shut down because it is overrun with patients who have no insurance and “doctors have to treat them.” That hospital might have a trauma unit or critical care unit which has a specialist doctor who’s been treating some responsible (but not rich) patient who will be endangered without that hospital nearby.
Click to expand...
The reason that uninsured people need coverage rather than a payment plan is that they would end up paying substantially more than the insured person would - for the same care.

Theoretically, all people are charged the same. Practically, since insurance companies negotiate discounts for their members, even when you have not met your deductible and are paying completely out-of-pocket, your bill can be several times less than that of an uninsured person. For example, Medicare may pay $200 for a service, private insurance may pay $300-$600, and the uninsured person $1000 (perhaps 10-20% less, if they know to negotiate a discount).

I don’t see that it makes sense that the person unable (or unwilling) to pay insurance premiums, will able (or willing) to pay these larger bills. And how long should a facility or practice be expected to wait to be reimbursed? I know people who have been paying less than $20 for literally years on end; meanwhile they keep needing care and adding to the outstanding amount…How will they ever get out from behind the 8-ball - how will the business, for that matter?
 
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