Free Music

[Voinic]

Much of my music collection is made up of songs that I downloaded for free. I was never sure about this being stealing, because you aren’t paying for them, but at the same time it’s legal to make copies of songs and do what you want with them as long as you don’t claim to be the creator of the work and sell it as your own. Then I thought this may be a greed problem because I didn’t feel like paying a buck for each song I get, most of which only ends up going to the record company, not the artist. Thoughts?

And if it’s sinful to download free music, is it also wrong to keep listening to it after one buys it?

 

[dshix]

Much of my music collection is made up of songs that I downloaded for free. I was never sure about this being stealing, because you aren’t paying for them, but at the same time it’s legal to make copies of songs and do what you want with them as long as you don’t claim to be the creator of the work and sell it as your own. Then I thought this may be a greed problem because I didn’t feel like paying a buck for each song I get, most of which only ends up going to the record company, not the artist. Thoughts?

And if it’s sinful to download free music, is it also wrong to keep listening to it after one buys it?

Your post is somewhat unclear. Are you downloading music that is being legitimately offered by the author, or from a pirating site which offers stolen music? If the former, there is not sin whatsoever involved; if the latter, you are stealing.

 

[Reepicheep]

If the legal owner of the music is offering it for free download then you’re in the clear.
If not then taking it for free is stealing it. For one thing if they’re trying to sell it and you take it without paying you just cost them a sale.
For another, to take my possessions without my permission is theft even if I have so many I won’t miss what you take.

If taking it is a sin, then using it after you take it is also a sin.

 

[Jozefo]

If the legal owner of the music is offering it for free download then you’re in the clear.
If not then taking it for free is stealing it. For one thing if they’re trying to sell it and you take it without paying you just cost them a sale.
For another, to take my possessions without my permission is theft even if I have so many I won’t miss what you take.

If taking it is a sin, then using it after you take it is also a sin.

But then the question arises: is it possible to commit a sin against a dead, lifeless thing called a corporation? I think not.

 

[TonyT]

But then the question arises: is it possible to commit a sin against a dead, lifeless thing called a corporation? I think not.

A corporation is not dead - it is just a group of people who have come together to do work. The laws concerning corporations are there to ensure that there is some protection for the people which make them up (which includes virtually all of us not working for a government).

None of us would want our work taken from us without permission or compensation. I am an engineer. My company goes to great lengths to ensure that competitors do not take the ideas we have developed and unfairly profit from them.

 

[Jozefo]

A corporation is not dead - it is just a group of people who have come together to do work. The laws concerning corporations are there to ensure that there is some protection for the people which make them up (which includes virtually all of us not working for a government).

None of us would want our work taken from us without permission or compensation. I am an engineer. My company goes to great lengths to ensure that competitors do not take the ideas we have developed and unfairly profit from them.

A corporation is a person. People create corporations in order to avoid personal liability, therefore they are seperate from the corporation. I know corporations are dead, lifeless things because if I have to deal with one, I can never meet face to face with it.

 

[Voinic]

Your post is somewhat unclear. Are you downloading music that is being legitimately offered by the author, or from a pirating site which offers stolen music? If the former, there is not sin whatsoever involved; if the latter, you are stealing.

The music has been bought by someone already, and it has been put up on a site for sharing. It was not initially stolen.

 

[Voinic]

Anyone who has legally bought the music has the right to do what they want with it, short of claiming it as theirs and making a profit. Besides, how is downloading free music any different from taping a show from TV or listening to a CD that your friend gave to you?

 

[Joe_5859]

Anyone who has legally bought the music has the right to do what they want with it, short of claiming it as theirs and making a profit. Besides, how is downloading free music any different from taping a show from TV or listening to a CD that your friend gave to you?

This is incorrect. It is illegal (at least in most countries) to buy a song and then give it away for free to millions of people via file sharing. There are limitations to how you can share it. Spending $0.99 on iTunes does not give a person the legal right to share it for free with the rest of the world.

Listening to a CD a friend gave you is totally different. I cannot loan a CD to my friend while simultaneously keeping it for myself and loaning it out to a million other people.

 

[Voinic]

This is incorrect. It is illegal (at least in most countries) to buy a song and then give it away for free to millions of people via file sharing. There are limitations to how you can share it. Spending $0.99 on iTunes does not give a person the legal right to share it for free with the rest of the world.

Listening to a CD a friend gave you is totally different. I cannot loan a CD to my friend while simultaneously keeping it for myself and loaning it out to a million other people.

Okay, so I asked my mother about buying all the songs that I downloaded for free. She says to buy any future songs, but that I should keep the free downloads that I have because she is uncomfortable with me spending money online. What should I do here

 

[Joe_5859]

Okay, so I asked my mother about buying all the songs that I downloaded for free. She says to buy any future songs, but that I should keep the free downloads that I have because she is uncomfortable with me spending money online. What should I do here

I’m not going to tell you to disobey your mother.

If it were me, I wouldn’t worry about immediately buying all the songs I had downloaded. But I would delete the songs I had dowloaded illegally and start over again. I know that’s probably not what you want to hear.

I can understand a parent’s retcence about spending money online. But perhaps you could work something out where – at certain set intervals – she would download a list of songs for you that you would pay her for (or would come out of your allowance or whatever is agreeable).

When I got my first summer job, I always hit the record store after every pay day to pick up a few CDs at a time. It’s a slower way to build your music collection, but after 20 years, I have more music than I could listen to in several months if I listened to CDs non-stop without sleeping.

 

[Reepicheep]

But then the question arises: is it possible to commit a sin against a dead, lifeless thing called a corporation? I think not.

If you empty the till at a checkout counter, is it all right because you can’t commit a sin against a dead, lifeless thing called a supermarket chain?
Or is it still wrong because you committed a sin against honesty?

 

[Reepicheep]

A corporation is a person. People create corporations in order to avoid personal liability, therefore they are seperate from the corporation. I know corporations are dead, lifeless things because if I have to deal with one, I can never meet face to face with it.

Theft is theft whether you steal from me or from a store, or from “Huge Multinational Corporation, Ltd”.
Besides that when you rob a company you rob its owners/stockholders, and may be robbing or hurting its employees.

 

[Reepicheep]

Okay, so I asked my mother about buying all the songs that I downloaded for free. She says to buy any future songs, but that I should keep the free downloads that I have because she is uncomfortable with me spending money online. What should I do here

If you accept that how you got them was wrong you have a moral duty to discard them.
If you cannot then buy them legally you must do without.

If your mother says to buy any future songs, does that mean you have access to physical music stores? Buy music there.
If you can’t buy except online and your mother forbids you to buy online, then you have a problem.
I sympathize. But that does not justify you in stealing or keeping stolen goods.

 

[Jozefo]

Theft is theft whether you steal from me or from a store, or from “Huge Multinational Corporation, Ltd”.
Besides that when you rob a company you rob its owners/stockholders, and may be robbing or hurting its employees.

I didn’t say stealing from a dead thing was good. I simply said it’s a dead thing, and I don’t think there’s a sin against it. If it were up to me, I would personally dissolve every corporation on the planet. That’s almost like killing them. Murdering them. Except it’s not, because they’re nothing more than legal fictions.

 

[Voinic]

I didn’t say stealing from a dead thing was good. I simply said it’s a dead thing, and I don’t think there’s a sin against it. If it were up to me, I would personally dissolve every corporation on the planet. That’s almost like killing them. Murdering them. Except it’s not, because they’re nothing more than legal fictions.

I’m willing to admit that it may be considered stealing, but I believe that God will understand my reservations regarding paying a greedy corporate entity for songs that aren’t theirs. (“Not theirs” meaning that the artist ought to be the true owner and the corporation is ripping off the artist.) I’m sorry if this offends anybody, but until the system changes to greater benefit the artist, I don’t see anything wrong with doing something that’s only illegal because some exec with a million-dollar house wants more money.

 

[Joe_5859]

I’m willing to admit that it may be considered stealing, but I believe that God will understand my reservations regarding paying a greedy corporate entity for songs that aren’t theirs. (“Not theirs” meaning that the artist ought to be the true owner and the corporation is ripping off the artist.) I’m sorry if this offends anybody, but until the system changes to greater benefit the artist, I don’t see anything wrong with doing something that’s only illegal because some exec with a million-dollar house wants more money.

You have to be very careful with this line of thinking. It is very easy for us to rationalize petty theft as being no big deal because we paint the victim as a heartless, greedy corporation rather than as a starving artist. But that’s just rationalization.

Artists work with corporations for very good reasons. They offer them studio space for recording, publicity, they finance the cost of touring, etc., etc… Those “corporations” (made up of many hard-working average people in addition to the “wealthy executives”) offer a service to the artists that they cannot provide for themselves – at least when they are starting out. They’re basically the financial backers. They put down the investment and take the financial risk, so they deserve to reap the financial reward of the artist in accordance with the contract.

It may make it easier for you to engage in these acts by telling yourself that you are only shorting the artist pennies on the dollar. But that is really irrelevant. There are a whole lot more people involved in the process than just the guy behind the microphone. And they’ve all put in the work that you then presume to take for free. That’s not okay.

 

[Reepicheep]

I didn’t say stealing from a dead thing was good. I simply said it’s a dead thing, and I don’t think there’s a sin against it. If it were up to me, I would personally dissolve every corporation on the planet. That’s almost like killing them. Murdering them. Except it’s not, because they’re nothing more than legal fictions.

The owners and employees aren’t legal fictions, though. Stealing from a corporation is still theft. You’re stealing from the owners, the stockholders, the employees. Further, all sins are sins against God himself.

Your dislike of corporations, interesting though it might be to discuss, is not relevant to the morality of the issue.
Stealing from the worst person in your neighborhood is still theft. Stealing from a thief is still theft.
Stealing from a corporation is still theft.

 

[dshix]

The owners and employees aren’t legal fictions, though. Stealing from a corporation is still theft. You’re stealing from the owners, the stockholders, the employees. Further, all sins are sins against God himself.

Your dislike of corporations, interesting though it might be to discuss, is not relevant to the morality of the issue.
Stealing from the worst person in your neighborhood is still theft. Stealing from a thief is still theft.
Stealing from a corporation is still theft.