Free will 2

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if there is TOTAL free will, then why do some succomb to sin and others do not?? and if you say it’s because of satan, then why do some succomb to satan and some do not???if you say some accept jesus and others don’t, then why??by total, I mean socio-economic, culture, chemicals, etc will play NO role in a choice to sin…
 
if there is TOTAL free will, then why do some succomb to sin and others do not??
Response to graces already received; response to the grace to pray for more graces. St. Alphonsus, in his book “A short treatise on prayer” deals with the necessity of prayer to be saved (and writes against the Jansenist’s) which includes a lengthy discussion that centres around this issue. You can read the book online here (the relevant chapter is in the first 1/3 of the book, but the whole thing is a gem!).

God gives everybody the graces necessary to go to Heaven. That is Christ’s promise! Part of that means the graces necessary to avoid sin.

Hope this inadequate answer helps a bit. Pray for enlightenment if you are struggling with the idea - I do it all the time when I don’t understand things (which is often!).
 
if there is TOTAL free will, then why do some succomb to sin and others do not?? and if you say it’s because of satan, then why do some succomb to satan and some do not???if you say some accept jesus and others don’t, then why??by total, I mean socio-economic, culture, chemicals, etc will play NO role in a choice to sin…
You really ought to try the Philosophy or Apologetics forums for these questions. This forum is for discussing topics relating to traditional Catholicism (or Catholic traditionalism, if you like).
 
if there is TOTAL free will, then why do some succomb to sin and others do not?? and if you say it’s because of satan, then why do some succomb to satan and some do not???if you say some accept jesus and others don’t, then why??by total, I mean socio-economic, culture, chemicals, etc will play NO role in a choice to sin…
do you understand the concept of free will?

its the ability to do what ever you want (in lamest explanations) - in that you may choose 1 or you may choose 2 (or what ever else there is to choose).
if you’re interested in why people pick 1 vs. 2 - that’s psychology and deals with how that person views (or perceives) the world around them.

For instance Person A may say 2 is not an option and give reasons to it, but if person B does not or can not perceive 2 the same way as Person A, then 2 may be an option.

Due to this, even though the choice is ours (or person A’s or person B’s) based on how we perceive the world (or 1 or 2) there are many factors involved: including culture, chemicals, etc. These things play a role, but they do not determine how we may choose/act.
 
Response to graces already received; response to the grace to pray for more graces. St. Alphonsus, in his book “A short treatise on prayer” deals with the necessity of prayer to be saved (and writes against the Jansenist’s) which includes a lengthy discussion that centres around this issue. You can read the book online here (the relevant chapter is in the first 1/3 of the book, but the whole thing is a gem!).

God gives everybody the graces necessary to go to Heaven. That is Christ’s promise! Part of that means the graces necessary to avoid sin.

Hope this inadequate answer helps a bit. Pray for enlightenment if you are struggling with the idea - I do it all the time when I don’t understand things (which is often!).
well, I don’t believe in free will…I would like more ‘concrete’ theories/replies other than '‘satan made me do it’…why do some people rape and others murder?? or steal? etc
 
well, I don’t believe in free will…I would like more ‘concrete’ theories/replies other than '‘satan made me do it’…why do some people rape and others murder?? or steal? etc
what about my reply?

also, how is “satan made me do it” a theory for free will? if anything that supports the argument against it.

consider option 2 in my above post. lets say that’s murder. person A says no - person B says yes. why? because of the world they perceive. In other words, a mixture of human senses, logic, and morals.
 
do you understand the concept of free will?

its the ability to do what ever you want (in lamest explanations) - in that you may choose 1 or you may choose 2 (or what ever else there is to choose).
if you’re interested in why people pick 1 vs. 2 - that’s psychology and deals with how that person views (or perceives) the world around them.

For instance Person A may say 2 is not an option and give reasons to it, but if person B does not or can not perceive 2 the same way as Person A, then 2 may be an option.

Due to this, even though the choice is ours (or person A’s or person B’s) based on how we perceive the world (or 1 or 2) there are many factors involved: including culture, chemicals, etc. These things play a role, but they do not determine how we may choose/act.
then how are these factors[culture/etc] involved if they do not determine/help the way we choose?
 
what about my reply?

also, how is “satan made me do it” a theory for free will? if anything that supports the argument against it.

consider option 2 in my above post. lets say that’s murder. person A says no - person B says yes. why? because of the world they perceive. In other words, a mixture of human senses, logic, and morals.
maybe you’ve seen my other post<>if there is truly free will, how come a HUGE percentage of murders are committted in ‘poor’ areas by ‘poor’ people…you do not see a lot of murders per city committed by the wealthy…where I’m from, 90% of the murders are committed in one area of the city…do poor people have some big difference in free will??
 
then how are these factors[culture/etc] involved if they do not determine/help the way we choose?
I think you’re confusing help with determine. simply because we have factors involved with a decision, they do not determine the outcome of such decision.

WARNING: contains mature content (mostly cursing) - viewer discretion advised !!!
youtu.be/8K-g7ipAqYY

above is a short clip from the movie “The Matrix: Reloaded” (or not).
don’t worry about words, but this scene can be used to describe free will & destiny.
1:59 - 2:25 is the example to focus on.

there are many factors with every decision - many are against each other. lets use 1 or 2.
1 has factor t, r, u, and e while 2 has factor f, a, l, s, and e. in any situation these factors compliment or criticize a decision. not every compliment or criticism creates a positive or negative affect

lets look at factor e. it is involved with both 1 and 2 but does not clarify the two. if we were to look at only e 1 and 2 would be the same. things begin to differ though due to other factors (which is how we know there 1 and 2 are different).

(following the video) every factor creates its own unique outcome or decision. e may create no outcome or only one outcome (of no real reason). if we would look at factor s perhaps this will make us angry which would cause in our rejection of 2. if we looked at factor l; we are happy which would cause acceptance of 2. all factors combined would generate a reaction towards 2.

factor u or any other factor may be information. a statistic. which causes a reaction - however this reaction is not a set decision. neither factors creates decision - only human reason may apply such factors to make the decision.

if factors u and r are together with factor s than we may like 1. if factor l, s, e, and a are involved with u and r then we may like 2. the outcome is still 1 or 2 however.

in connection to the video - it expresses these reactions.

with all factors combined there is still the decision, one final outcome. 1 or 2.

how we perceive these factors (statistics/color/etc.) and interact with them (anger/etc.) may create a likely outcome/decision in which x% of population agree or disagree OR x% of population is or isn’t. however not every factor nor likely outcome may create a definite decision.

there may be some factors that may not be perceived, such as personal pain/loss vs gain. factor l may contradict factor f - or factors may not have any connection to one another such as factor l and u.

In conclusion, these influences/factors create a reaction based on how we perceive the world around us - not the outcome, our final move creates the outcome/decision.
 
then how are these factors[culture/etc] involved if they do not determine/help the way we choose?
I think you’re confusing help with determine. simply because we have factors involved with a decision, they do not determine the outcome of such decision.

WARNING: contains mature content (mostly cursing) - viewer discretion advised !!!
youtu.be/8K-g7ipAqYY

above is a short clip from the movie “The Matrix: Reloaded” (or not).
don’t worry about words, but this scene can be used to describe free will & destiny.
1:59 - 2:25 is the example to focus on.

there are many factors with every decision - many are against each other. lets use 1 or 2.
1 has factor t, r, u, and e while 2 has factor f, a, l, s, and e. in any situation these factors compliment or criticize a decision or each other. not every compliment or criticism creates a positive or negative affect.

lets look at factor e. it is involved with both 1 and 2 but does not clarify the two. if we were to look at only e 1 and 2 would be the same. things begin to differ though due to other factors (which is how we know that 1 and 2 are different).

(following the video) every factor creates its own unique reaction. e may create no reaction or only one reaction(of no real reason). which in turns would point towards only one or no outcome. if we would look at factor s perhaps this will make us uneasy which would cause in our rejection of 2. if we looked at factor l; we are happy which could cause acceptance of 2 (even if s was present). all factors combined would generate a reaction towards 2 even if we would drop 1.

factor u or any other factor may be information. a statistic. which causes a reaction - however this reaction is not a set decision. neither factors creates decision - only human reason may apply such factors to make the decision/outcome.

there may be some factors that may not be perceived, such as personal pain/loss vs gain. factor l may contradict factor f - or factors may not have any connection to one another such as factor l and u.

if factors u and r are together with factor s than we may like 1. if factor l, s, e, and a are involved with u and r then we may like 2. the outcome is still 1 or 2 however.

in connection to the video - it expresses these reactions.

with all factors combined there is still the decision, one final outcome. 1 or 2.

how we perceive these factors (statistics/color/etc.) and interact with them (anger/etc.) may create a likely outcome/decision in which x% of population agree or disagree OR x% of population is or isn’t. however not every factor nor likely outcome may create a definite decision.

even if we have lived with 2 our entire lives aware of t, r, u, and e. how we perceive them may change. what we once disliked could now be liked. what was once misunderstood is now understood. therefore we create a new outcome; 1.

OR we may have the same changes in reactions but still remain with 2.

In conclusion, these influences/factors create a reaction based on how we perceive the world around us - not the outcome, our final move creates the outcome/decision.

p.s. this response covers more than the first try. I ran out of time to edit.
 
maybe you’ve seen my other post<>if there is truly free will, how come a HUGE percentage of murders are committted in ‘poor’ areas by ‘poor’ people…you do not see a lot of murders per city committed by the wealthy…where I’m from, 90% of the murders are committed in one area of the city…do poor people have some big difference in free will??
It will always depend on how an individual perceives the world around them. I know two friends whom lived harsh lives and statistically should follow the same path as you speak. however, they do not.

there are countless stories of people quitting gangs or not even joining.

also, look at siblings or better yet twins … to really determine this you should look at a controlled environment, not a community of hundreds or thousands with 10 times as many factors if not more.

twins should be exactly the same. they live through the same experiences don’t they? yet they are mostly different.
 
It will always depend on how an individual perceives the world around them. I know two friends whom lived harsh lives and statistically should follow the same path as you speak. however, they do not.

there are countless stories of people quitting gangs or not even joining.

also, look at siblings or better yet twins … to really determine this you should look at a controlled environment, not a community of hundreds or thousands with 10 times as many factors if not more.

twins should be exactly the same. they live through the same experiences don’t they? yet they are mostly different.
so, I ask again, how do you account for the facts that most murders[in my city] are committed in one certain area by a certain group of people??I would think if everyone had ‘equal’ /total free will, the murders would be spread out…but, no, most are committed in a tiny area of the region…and you see this in most big cities<>an area where most of the murders/shootings are committed
 
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