Free will and god's intervention

[angell1]

so I know that bad things happen because of people and their free will to sin.

but what about the innocent person’s free will?

why would God not intervene is someone is about to get raped, for example?

I don’t know what good could possibly come out of rape. especially of children.

and I have nothing to say to people who say that God didn’t save them from it. how do you tell a child who has suffered sexual abuse that God loves them? their first response is, why didn’t he help me?

does he ever intervene? I always believed he did, isn’t that why we pray?

but if he does intervene, how is he not violating free will? and why does he intervene sometimes and not others? of course I do understand that we are responsible ofr our own choices and he can’t clean up every mess we make.

but most people would do something if they knew someone was in a bad situation, wouldn’t they?

I’m sorry, I’m very confused

 

[Tom_Baum]

so I know that bad things happen because of people and their free will to sin.

but what about the innocent person’s free will?

why would God not intervene is someone is about to get raped, for example?

I don’t know what good could possibly come out of rape. especially of children.

and I have nothing to say to people who say that God didn’t save them from it. how do you tell a child who has suffered sexual abuse that God loves them? their first response is, why didn’t he help me?

does he ever intervene? I always believed he did, isn’t that why we pray?

but if he does intervene, how is he not violating free will? and why does he intervene sometimes and not others? of course I do understand that we are responsible ofr our own choices and he can’t clean up every mess we make.

but most people would do something if they knew someone was in a bad situation, wouldn’t they?

I’m sorry, I’m very confused

Like it or not, free will is only free will if it is free will completely since there is no such thing as partial free will.

 

[1ke]

but what about the innocent person’s free will?

why would God not intervene is someone is about to get raped, for example?

Precisely because he gives us free will. Free will is either totally free, or non-existent. We cannot have it both ways. God loves us so much he made us totally free. It is what makes us in his image. It is also what makes evil possible.

I don’t know what good could possibly come out of rape. especially of children.

Well, some might say that about blindness, a condition you yourself have. Yet, good does come out of it.

and I have nothing to say to people who say that God didn’t save them from it. how do you tell a child who has suffered sexual abuse that God loves them? their first response is, why didn’t he help me?

Yes, that can be difficult when we are unprepared to answer such questions. I can suggest a good Catholic bible study on the Book of Job, books such as Making Sense Out of Suffering by Peter Kreeft, and Kreeft’s writings on The Problem of Evil.

does he ever intervene? I always believed he did, isn’t that why we pray?

It is possible he might illuminate the intellect of some individuals beyond the natural into the supernatural. Sometimes, yes, he does intervene. These are known as miracles. They are not common place.

We pray for God’s will, and for our understanding of it.

but if he does intervene, how is he not violating free will?

Typically miracles are not interfering with someone’s free will. Healing from a disease, for example. Some say he intervened in JPII’s attempted assassination, the bullet missed his heart. Was that his intervention, or was that poor marksmanship? we don’t know. Did the intervention contravene the assassin’s free will? No.

and why does he intervene sometimes and not others?

Well, typically, I would say in matters of salvation history-- the Annunciation to Mary comes to mind.

but most people would do something if they knew someone was in a bad situation, wouldn’t they?

I’m sorry, I’m very confused

It is difficult to understand that God’s perspective is eternal, and ours is temporal. So, we do not see everything all at once. We do not see our entire life as one thing, but rather as small individual moments. God sees it all, the big picture, the entire story. He knows the outcome, we will only know in Heaven. And, we must always keep in mind that our existence here is not the total of our existence. Jesus says what good is it to gain the whole world but lose eternal life?

 

[DavidFilmer]

Our present sufferings cannot be compared with the glory that will be revealed in us. [Romans 8:18]

 

[Frankenfurter]

God does intervene. But he does it by giving us Jesus.

God does not step in and save the innocent person from the free will of another. If he did then the attacker would not in fact have free will. God has given us an active part in his creation.

God’s intervention is to let us know that even he, who is God, could not stop people from harming him. We can unite our suffering with Christ. God understands the suffering of the innocent because he suffered it too. We are in good company and he heals all wounds.

What you ask is the same question asked by the robber on the cross next to Jesus. Much can be gleaned by meditating on this.

It’s a truly prayerful question you are asking.

Peace.

 

[angell1]

Precisely because he gives us free will. Free will is either totally free, or non-existent. We cannot have it both ways. God loves us so much he made us totally free. It is what makes us in his image. It is also what makes evil possible.

Well, some might say that about blindness, a condition you yourself have. Yet, good does come out of it.

Yes, that can be difficult when we are unprepared to answer such questions. I can suggest a good Catholic bible study on the Book of Job, books such as Making Sense Out of Suffering by Peter Kreeft, and Kreeft’s writings on The Problem of Evil.
i’ll look in to it

It is possible he might illuminate the intellect of some individuals beyond the natural into the supernatural. Sometimes, yes, he does intervene. These are known as miracles. They are not common place.

We pray for God’s will, and for our understanding of it.
then why do we pray for other things, such as healing for people, or protection, or for bad things to end. what’s the point if God won’t intervene?

Typically miracles are not interfering with someone’s free will. Healing from a disease, for example. Some say he intervened in JPII’s attempted assassination, the bullet missed his heart. Was that his intervention, or was that poor marksmanship? we don’t know. Did the intervention contravene the assassin’s free will? No.

then why can’t he intervene in other things? for other innocent people?

Well, typically, I would say in matters of salvation history-- the Annunciation to Mary comes to mind.

It is difficult to understand that God’s perspective is eternal, and ours is temporal. So, we do not see everything all at once. We do not see our entire life as one thing, but rather as small individual moments. God sees it all, the big picture, the entire story. He knows the outcome, we will only know in Heaven. And, we must always keep in mind that our existence here is not the total of our existence. Jesus says what good is it to gain the whole world but lose eternal life?

but how do we know God’s not intervening? something could happen to us at any moment, but if God stopped it. we would never knoew that he did

I still don’t really see how it all fits together. if he doesn’t violate free will when he intervenes, then why not do it if he can?

 

[DavidFilmer]

but how do we know God’s not intervening? something could happen to us at any moment, but if God stopped it. we would never knoew that he did

It doesn’t matter if WE know about God’s inteference or not. If God prevented us from making an evil decision, he, ummm, prevented us from maing an evil decision. That diminishes (and actually overcomes) our free will. WE might not know, but God knows that we were not truly exercising our own free will.

God is not interested in how we perceive our options if he manipulates them to satisfy his own sense of morality (because we could not resist his (name removed by moderator)ut). God does not stack the deck in his favor, as a cheater might do at a game of cards… He is interested in how WE respond to our situations. He does not compel us either way. That is what “free will” means - we are not compelled either way.

 

[angell1]

It doesn’t matter if WE know about God’s inteference or not. If God prevented us from making an evil decision, he, ummm, prevented us from maing an evil decision. That diminishes (and actually overcomes) our free will. WE might not know, but God knows that we were not truly exercising our own free will.

God is not interested in how we perceive our options if he manipulates them to satisfy his own sense of morality (because we could not resist his (name removed by moderator)ut). God does not stack the deck in his favor, as a cheater might do at a game of cards… He is interested in how WE respond to our situations. He does not compel us either way. That is what “free will” means - we are not compelled either way.

no, but God could potentially interfere in the carrying out of something evil.

for example, if a murderer wanted to shoot me today but missed, was it God intervening or just bad aim?

my questions is this, does God never intervene then?

why do we pray then to ask for things if he already knows what he’s going to do or not do?