Free Will and Omniscience

[Ghosty]

If God knew “Bob” was not going to choose eternal life even before the beginning of the universe, why did He create Bob that way? Why didn’t God surround Bob with a reverent family, supportive friends, and holy priests, etc, who could guide Bob towards salvation?

The thing is that God DID set us up with all the benefits of grace, we simply rejected it; that’s the whole point of the Fall. God created the people who surround Bob with the same quality that God created ALL humans: free will. It’s not that God set Bob up to fail, it’s that Bob, along with the rest of humanity failed in spite of God’s grace, and yet God STILL pours Its graces on us. To simply not create those who could fail would be to destroy the foundation of free will.

Remember that our free will has implications beyond our own souls, just as was the case with our First Parents. The people around Bob are equally free willed, and their failure affects those around them. This is why leading others to error is such a grave offense: it falls perfectly within our God-given free will. We are communal creatures as well as individuals, and it is God’s will that we share in the fullness of love that comes from unity with one another. To seperate us from the factors caused by other humans would be to devalue our sense of love and responsibility towards one another, a love and unity that is perfectly reflected in the Trinity. After all, we are made in God’s image, which means we are free willed AND communal as a species.

 

[yves]

Regenhund:

If God is Omniscient then He already knew every decision we would ever make before He made anything at all. This being the case, free will would be an illusion because God, having created us into a specific time, shaped by specific events, etc, created us in that way intentionally.

That sounds very complicated!

Just because God knew what we were going to do doesn’t mean that He made us to those things. He created us knowing we would sin and that shows how much He loved us, even since before we were born. No matter how much grief we cause Him, He wants us to enjoy the beautiful life He offers us.

Christ’s Peace to you all.

 

[spauline]

Regenhund:

Sorry, but I’m not all that familier with Double Predestination. What I can’t wrap my brain around is: If God knew “Bob” was not going to choose eternal life even before the beginning of the universe, why did He create Bob that way? Why didn’t God surround Bob with a reverent family, supportive friends, and holy priests, etc, who could guide Bob towards salvation?

Even if God gave Bob a good environment, he could still desert God. Pastor’s sons who become wild, immoral men are common. Look at Billy Graham’s son.

 

[spauline]

Free will and God’s All-Powerfulness are, in the end, a mystery. We can’t fully understand them. See this question I asked the EWTN Philosophy expert:

ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=411848&Forums=13&Experts=0&Days=90&Author=Scott+Pauline&Keyword=&pgnu=1&groupnum=0

Also, as the article mentions, orthodox Catholic theologians also believe in a TYPE of Predestination to Hell. Quoted from Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:

The Doctrine of God the Sanctifier, Section 13:

“God, by an Eternal Resolve of His Will, predestines certain men, on account of their forseen sins, to eternal rejection.” (De Fide)

However, Ott explains that this predestination is conditional, unlike Calvinism, which is unconditional.

This means it is difficult to accept, but God knows that the damned will not make it, and He has allowed that this will happen. It is a scary thought. We should therefore not presume that we will be saved but pray for salvation.

Also, Tom wrote:

It does not imply knowledge of future events. Although God certainly has a plan, and can effect events to achieve His plan, it neither does nor implies He “knows” what specifically will happen. For example in Scripture He seems surprised at times, remorseful at others. This could of course be literary mechanism, or, it could imply He really didn’t expect the event to occur. He knows when every bird of the air falls, it doesn’t say He know before it happens.

This is heresy. God knows the future:

Ibid, The Unity and Trinity of God, Section 21:

“God knows all real things in the past, present, and future.” (De Fide)

“By the knowledge of vision, God also forsees the future free acts of the rational creatures with infallible certainty.” (De Fide)

 

[JPrejean]

If God knew “Bob” was not going to choose eternal life even before the beginning of the universe, why did He create Bob that way?

Because what Bob meant for evil, God meant for good. He allowed (but did not force) Bob to choose evil in order that His grace could abound even more. Suppose that you left your car unlocked knowing that it was likely (or even certain) that someone would steal it. Would you say that stealing your car became any less wrong? Could anyone reasonably say that the circumstances forced the thief to take the car? In the same way, people are tempted to evil ends by their own perverse desires, not because they are forced to be so by circumstances.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

JPrejean:

Because what Bob meant for evil, God meant for good. He allowed (but did not force) Bob to choose evil in order that His grace could abound even more. Suppose that you left your car unlocked knowing that it was likely (or even certain) that someone would steal it. Would you say that stealing your car became any less wrong? Could anyone reasonably say that the circumstances forced the thief to take the car? In the same way, people are tempted to evil ends by their own perverse desires, not because they are forced to be so by circumstances.

Dear JPrejean,

I like your point. Even Judas had to do what he had to do, so that prophecy may be fulfilled, although it didn’t make it any easier on Judas.

I’m starting to come down on the side of predestination as far as God is concerned (with caveat I’ll explain later) with our wills being truly “free” as far as we humans can know, thereby giving the illusion that we can change the future – “change” as in do something God didn’t already know we were gonna do.
Rom 8:28-30:

We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. For those he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined he also called; and those he called he also justified; and those he justified he also glorified.

Why worry about whether we will be justified or glorified?

It would also seem God plans well in advance. Several verses in Ephesians seem to point toward that.
Eph 1:3-12:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavens, as he chose us in him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and without blemish before him. In love he destined us for adoption to himself through Jesus Christ, in accord with the favor of his will, for the praise of the glory of his grace that he granted us in the beloved.

In him we have redemption by his blood, the forgiveness of transgressions, in accord with the riches of his grace that he lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight, he has made known to us the mystery of his will in accord with his favor that he set forth in him as a plan for the fullness of times, to sum up all things in Christ, in heaven and on earth. In him we were also chosen, destined in accord with the purpose of the one who accomplishes all things according to the intention of his will, so that we might exist for the praise of his glory, we who first hoped in Christ.

This predestination could be either good or bad. Apparently those who reject Jesus were also destined to do so:
1 Pet 2:7-8:

Therefore, its value is for you who have faith, but for those without faith: “The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone that will make people stumble, and a rock that will make them fall.” They stumble by disobeying the word, as is their destiny.

I promised a caveat to the “God knows all in the future.” I believe God is different than us in that He can be aware and focused on many things at once while humans can only think of a very few things at a time. Given that, why couldn’t God “choose” not to know certain things in the future. For example, ever since DVD’s came out, we can always watch the end of a movie, but that’s no fun. Couldn’t God choose not to be “conscious” of certain things, therefore letting them come as a surprise? I’d think it would liven things up a great deal in heaven compared to always knowing how everything is going to go down.

Alan