Free Will and Physics

  • Thread starter Thread starter mymamamary
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mymamamary

Guest
OK Forum, I got a question

I am a compatabilist, obviously because the Church teaches it. However, Apparently according to Quantum Physics, free will is impossible because all possible results occur simultaneously. What is the defense for Free will in this situation??

(Im trying to get some background now, so that when we start Free will in my course I know what I can reply.)

I am also sure that the Church teaches Compatibilism right? as we have free will, but Our Lord also knows the eventual outcome of our life

I don’t want a debate at the moment, I’m just trying to find the counter-argument. Perhaps when I start the unit, I will start a debate.
 
mymamamary said:
However, Apparently according to Quantum Physics, free will is impossible because all possible results occur simultaneously.
Click to expand...
Actually, that’s just one interpretation among many, called “Many-worlds interpretation”. There are other interpretations, for example, “Copenhagen interpretation”. You might wish to look at those:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_interpretation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

Hope that helps…
 
I personally refuse to argue for or against anything that I do not understand, and I think that should be your policy also. Some popular science journalist, with a degree in journalism not science, who says that all possible results occur simultaneously according to quantum physics is just spewing nonsense and this is no basis for a theological approach to free will. I could just as easily say that the external world is an illusion, saying so doesn’t make anything true.
 
mymamamary said:
OK Forum, I got a question

I am a compatabilist, obviously because the Church teaches it. However, Apparently according to Quantum Physics, free will is impossible because all possible results occur simultaneously. What is the defense for Free will in this situation??

(Im trying to get some background now, so that when we start Free will in my course I know what I can reply.)

I am also sure that the Church teaches Compatibilism right? as we have free will, but Our Lord also knows the eventual outcome of our life

I don’t want a debate at the moment, I’m just trying to find the counter-argument. Perhaps when I start the unit, I will start a debate.
Click to expand...
Quantum physics deals with matter. Our free will and our intellect is in the spiritual substance of the soul. For man is composed of just not the body and physical matter but a spiritual soul too. Consequently, I don’t see the connection between quantum physics and our free will.
 
mymamamary said:
OK Forum, I got a question

I am a compatabilist, obviously because the Church teaches it. However, Apparently according to Quantum Physics, free will is impossible because all possible results occur simultaneously. What is the defense for Free will in this situation??.
Click to expand...
According to quantum physics there isn’t anything here at all. Hardly seems relevant to our lives, though, does it?

If all things happen simultaneously, then the choice is which reality we choose to occupy.

It’s still our choice.
 
What people like this don’t seem to understand is that there are two realities. Physical and Spiritual.

Physical:
The physical reality is the reality we currently occupy. It is this universe, and any other proposed universes within or outside of this one. It is the reality which can be studied, quantified, given logical form and definition.

Spiritual:
This is the reality of God, the reality of the soul. This is the eternal reality, which has always existed. It simply is, and nothing from this reality has any affect on it.

The people are studying the physical reality, which is limited to tangible experiences that can be viewed and studied. Seeing as they are limited to the physical reality, and seeing as how free will is related to the soul, nothing we assume to know about our physical reality has any affect on the Truth of our free will.
 
Thank you!!

The answers all make sense and ease my mind. I thought there was something “smelly” about the idea of Free will being ruled out by a natural study (physics) when in reality, free will is a SUPERnatural thing. Interesting!! Please keep the answers coming!!
 
mymamamary said:
Thank you!!

The answers all make sense and ease my mind. I thought there was something “smelly” about the idea of Free will being ruled out by a natural study (physics) when in reality, free will is a SUPERnatural thing. Interesting!! Please keep the answers coming!!
Click to expand...
Very glad we were able to help ^^
 
mymamamary said:
OK Forum, I got a question

I am a compatabilist, obviously because the Church teaches it. However, Apparently according to Quantum Physics, free will is impossible because all possible results occur simultaneously. What is the defense for Free will in this situation??

(Im trying to get some background now, so that when we start Free will in my course I know what I can reply.)

I am also sure that the Church teaches Compatibilism right? as we have free will, but Our Lord also knows the eventual outcome of our life

I don’t want a debate at the moment, I’m just trying to find the counter-argument. Perhaps when I start the unit, I will start a debate.
Click to expand...
First you will have to explain in brief, simple terms what a " compatabilist " is. Gee, why don’t you stick to Thomism?

Anyway, whatever it is neither Quantum Physics nor anything else in nature, nothing outside ourselves in fact, has anything to with our free will. Free will is a property of the spiritual soul. Naturally our free will is stronger or weaker depending on many factors. Drugs, illness, accidents can have a strong effect on free will, perhaps they can make it inoperative entirely ( exteme cases). But in most healthy people free will functions well enough to bear culpability for our actions. Is that what you were wondering? 👍
 
Nimzovik said:
Fun thought toy tho- for us thinkers…:cool:
Click to expand...
Really, nice to know. I was unaware this was a " fun " forum. That is the exact attitude that is ruining the forum. I do wish people would take their " fun " and " games " somewhere else. 😦
 
Linusthe2nd said:
First you will have to explain in brief, simple terms what a " compatabilist " is. Gee, why don’t you stick to Thomism?

Anyway, whatever it is neither Quantum Physics nor anything else in nature, nothing outside ourselves in fact, has anything to with our free will. Free will is a property of the spiritual soul. Naturally our free will is stronger or weaker depending on many factors. Drugs, illness, accidents can have a strong effect on free will, perhaps they can make it inoperative entirely ( exteme cases). But in most healthy people free will functions well enough to bear culpability for our actions. Is that what you were wondering? 👍
Click to expand...
Well I’m a compatibilist in the sense that I believe I have free will, however, Our Lord knows the fate of my salvation. I can always change that for good or for worse. I hope that clarifies, and no it wasn’t a fun question, it was a honest question…
 
Linusthe2nd said:
Really, nice to know. I was unaware this was a " fun " forum. That is the exact attitude that is ruining the forum. I do wish people would take their " fun " and " games " somewhere else. 😦
Click to expand...
Oh! Oh! Oh! What a smack down!

Forum:
1
a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business

b **: a public meeting place for open discussion **

Methinks item b fits the topic - eh? The OP had a serious question. It was addressed.
 
I’m not experiencing all possible results, just the ones that follow from my choices.

Regardless, there are really only two choices: life or death (i.e. God or self). These two cannot occur simultaneously.
 
mymamamary said:
OK Forum, I got a question

I am a compatabilist, obviously because the Church teaches it. However, Apparently according to Quantum Physics, free will is impossible because all possible results occur simultaneously. What is the defense for Free will in this situation??

(Im trying to get some background now, so that when we start Free will in my course I know what I can reply.)

I am also sure that the Church teaches Compatibilism right? as we have free will, but Our Lord also knows the eventual outcome of our life

I don’t want a debate at the moment, I’m just trying to find the counter-argument. Perhaps when I start the unit, I will start a debate.
Click to expand...
Hmmm…are any of the posters in this thread physicists, knowledgeable about QM, I wonder? (I am a physicist and do know something about QM, having published papers involving QM.) There are at least 11 different interpretations of QM, all of which are consistent with experimental results, so one’s personal philosophical bias will determine which interpretation one favors. (See the Wikipedia article for a concise review: If you really want to see how QM intersects Catholic faith read “Quantum Mechanics:Scientific Perspectives on Divine Action”, a Collection of papers from a conference called by JP II (a series of such actually). Particularly read
“Quantum Nonlocality:Experimental Evidence” by Raymond Chiao, in which he details how delayed choice experiments show that the observer controls experimental results (i.e. the observer’s choice), which leads him (Chiao) to a Berkeleyan interpretation, i.e. God as the observer who creates the world by His thought. (That’s my leaning). See
ctns.org/books.html (click on the book “Quantum Mechanics” and then on the right column, the chapter by Raymond Chiao).
 
Free will I understand it like what my soul decided I want to follow - like a direction; we have many will-s, not only one.
Without proper education one might have a very cloudy will -s, or another doesn’t know what he wants…
God knows our will-s, of course.
Choice is another thing. Depends on will-s but not only. Choice is more like an an event.
Probability tells you the odds of an event. On the other hand it tells you how much you do not know about the event in that system. Would you know 100% the functionality of the system, then you would know the outcome of any event every time.
God is allknowing, so He always knows what is going to hapen…
You decide your will-s free.
 
After Creation, we discover who we are (God already knows it), what we can be (also from other people), and the amazing thing is that we can change it with God’s grace and our free will.People going to hell, could have been you after assuming theirs will. The Saints are a inspiration for our life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top