Free Will and Theoretical Mind Control

[_AnnoDomini]

I personally believe that God created humans to have free will. Looking it up, this aligns with traditional Catholic belief. However, it is also a traditional Catholic belief that governments should promote Catholic beliefs and morals, and if possible, make Catholicism the governing religion. I kind of have three questions related to this!

1. By “the government should make Catholicism the governing religion,” does that mean that people who stray from the Catholic faith should be expelled from the land or punished in some way? I would think not, but looking at history, well…
2. Theoretically, if a form of mind control existed that could force people to believe in Catholicism, would it be morally acceptable to use it? I would assume not, as faith requires consent, right (and even God Himself decided to give us the choice to accept or reject Him)?
3. Do people create their own futures or merely follow God’s plan? I always thought that it was kind of a mix of both, that we are able to choose our own path but that God knows what we’re going to choose in the end.

 

[Seekingthetruth]

Lots of free will questions here lately! Now I’ll admit I’m definitely no expert so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

By “the government should make Catholicism the governing religion,” does that mean that people who stray from the Catholic faith should be expelled from the land or punished in some way? I would think not, but looking at history, well…

Historically speaking, you’re absolutely right. Making a theocracy like that could constitute those who chose to not conform (more like choosing not to abide by Catholic laws) could definitely see some type of Punishment if they refuse to repent… I’m not Catholic so I’m mostly taking a wild guess here.

Theoretically, if a form of mind control existed that could force people to believe in Catholicism, would it be morally acceptable to use it? I would assume not, as faith requires consent, right (and even God Himself decided to give us the choice to accept or reject Him)?

I don’t believe mind control would ever be morally permissible. As far as faith needing consent… I’m not sure if I would word it like that. Faith or πίστη ( pistis) in the Greek actually translates to more of a trust (aka like trusting that the pilot who’s flying your plane is actually trained). So while consent is needed, one would have to have that pistis or trust in the Lord.

Do people create their own futures or merely follow God’s plan? I always thought that it was kind of a mix of both, that we are able to choose our own path but that God knows what we’re going to choose in the end.

This is the million dollar question. I, personally, don’t believe we’ll know on this side of eternity. I believe we walk our own path guided by the Holy Spirit. I have never really seen a proper example of God subverting someones free will. However the underlying questions is do humans have the principle of alternate possibilities (or the ability to have done other than we did). In the end that I feel like it’s a great thought experiment but it doesn’t have any real bearing one way or the other.

 

[Freddy]

I personally believe that God created humans to have free will. Looking it up, this aligns with traditional Catholic belief. However, it is also a traditional Catholic belief that governments should promote Catholic beliefs and morals, and if possible, make Catholicism the governing religion.

I can understand any given government suggesting that there are certain moral answers to some questions (although I would object to anyone claiming the morality itself to be specifically Catholic or Muslim or Jewish or Humanistic etc). But making Catholicism the ‘governing religion’ is new to me.

Where does the church teach that a theocracy is a good thing?

 

[Bill_B_NY]

I personally believe that God created humans to have free will. Looking it up, this aligns with traditional Catholic belief. However, it is also a traditional Catholic belief that governments should promote Catholic beliefs and morals, and if possible, make Catholicism the governing religion. I kind of have three questions related to this!

It is “traditional” Catholic belief, but the modern Catholic belief has adjusted that somewhat. There has to be room for non-Catholics in any state, and in fact, some argue that we cannot have a state where Catholicism is officially the religion of the government. Personally, I choose the traditional Catholic view. I do not think the modern view is an infallible dogma, and it is subject to change. So, I prefer the idea that the entire state should be Catholic.

By “the government should make Catholicism the governing religion,” does that mean that people who stray from the Catholic faith should be expelled from the land or punished in some way? I would think not, but looking at history, well…

By today’s standards, that is never going to happen. By the imaginary standards of a Catholic state? It could be possible that non-Catholic religions are not tolerated as far as promotion or places of worship - since they would be a danger to society. But the Church supports a sense of liberty for people who are not Catholic, so oppression against them would not be permitted in general terms.

Theoretically, if a form of mind control existed that could force people to believe in Catholicism, would it be morally acceptable to use it? I would assume not, as faith requires consent, right (and even God Himself decided to give us the choice to accept or reject Him)?

Mind control and belief are two different things. Belief requires a free submission of the will. You cannot be coerced or forced into it. Manipulating people’s minds is a sinful action anyway.

Do people create their own futures or merely follow God’s plan? I always thought that it was kind of a mix of both, that we are able to choose our own path but that God knows what we’re going to choose in the end.

Ideally, we should follow God’s plan in all things. The problem is, how do we know what God’s plan is. Often, God does not direct us clearly - He wants us to figure out the best idea we have and use faith. God knows what we will choose. He will direct us and make our choices to do His will easier if we pray and ask. We can choose against His will and He permits that. It is the cost of freedom that we can choose against His will - and choose an evil path.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Where does the church teach that a theocracy is a good thing?

The social doctrine on Christ the King establishes the ideal that the entire society all accept the Catholic Faith.
What would be wrong with that?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Where does the church teach that a theocracy is a good thing?

The social doctrine on Christ the King establishes the ideal that the entire society all accept the Catholic Faith.
What would be wrong with that?

Thanks for the answer. But it wasn’t one that addressed my question.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Thanks for the answer. But it wasn’t one that addressed my question.

Well, I tried to answer it. I refer you to Quas Primas. The Holy See teaches that all societies should have Catholicism as the governing religion - all laws should be founded in Catholic teaching and even publicly Jesus should be honored as King over society.

Catholicism is true. Why wouldn’t it be the ideal to have everyone accept the truth and have a nation’s government reflect the truth in all that it does?

To say “Catholicism is true, but governments should not respect it, but instead be based on false principles” - doesn’t make sense.

That’s what I asked you and you didn’t answer. What would be wrong with a society based on Catholic teaching?

 

[Bill_B_NY]

God’s desire is that every person should come to a belief and acceptance of the Truth - that Jesus died on the Cross to bring to the world.
That may sound strange but it’s really the way it is. We’re supposed to be working to convert everyone to the Catholic Faith.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Thanks for the answer. But it wasn’t one that addressed my question.

Well, I tried to answer it. I refer you to Quas Primas. The Holy See teaches that all societies should have Catholicism as the governing religion - all laws should be founded in Catholic teaching and even publicly Jesus should be honored as King over society.

Catholicism is true. Why wouldn’t it be the ideal to have everyone accept the truth and have a nation’s government reflect the truth in all that it does?

To say “Catholicism is true, but governments should not respect it, but instead be based on false principles” - doesn’t make sense.

That’s what I asked you and you didn’t answer. What would be wrong with a society based on Catholic teaching?

Quas Primas makes no mention of a theocracy. Which was the specific point of the question. Yet to be answered.

And I have an objection to any society’s laws being based on someone’s specific moral precepts when they are religiously based.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

The social doctrine on Christ the King establishes the ideal that the entire society all accept the Catholic Faith.
What would be wrong with that?

If by “ideal”, you mean that hearts and minds are led to Christ, then nothing is wrong with that.
But it’s a journey a person has to work out for themselves.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Quas Primas makes no mention of a theocracy. Which was the specific point of the question. Yet to be answered.

Wikipedia defines theocracy as:

Theocracy is a form of government in which a deity of some type is recognized as the supreme ruling authority, giving divine guidance to human intermediaries that manage the day to day affairs of the government.

So, if there was a government that recognized the Blessed Trinity as the supreme law giver and consecrated the country to Christ the King, and pledged to uphold the laws of God in this way - that would be a theocracy.

And I have an objection to any society’s laws being based on someone’s specific moral precepts when they are religiously based.

But any society’s laws have to be based on someone’s ideas. So why would you prefer non-religious morals (or atheistic) to Catholic ones?

 

[Bill_B_NY]

If by “ideal”, you mean that hearts and minds are led to Christ, then nothing is wrong with that.
But it’s a journey a person has to work out for themselves.

I understand what you mean, but in our society, for example, our hearts and minds are not lead to believe in our government’s ideas, necessarily. People accept the laws that are given. We Catholics have to live by laws, which in some cases are evil. Why is that better than having Catholic-oriented laws that attempt to be more pleasing to God?

 

[EndTimes]

Theoretically, if a form of mind control existed that could force people to believe in Catholicism, would it be morally acceptable to use it? I would assume not, as faith requires consent, right (and even God Himself decided to give us the choice to accept or reject Him)?

Having a national religion as has existed in history - does not equate to Forcing

If Stoning - such as ancient Israel had - was present - then that’s another story…