Free Will can only be a result of a Creator

[warpspeedpetey]

The universe and current understanding of Physics, tend to negate determinism. Matter can appear randomly,

matter can come from nowhere, for no reason? isnt that a violation of the conservation of mass? yes it is.

isnt that saying that something can come from nothing? i.e. 0+0=1? yes it is.

and behaviour of certain particles cannot be predicted(quantum mechanics).

you mean like quantum indeterminancy? as in ones accuracy of knowledege of the factors of momentum vs. position are inveresly related?

thats not the same thing as the particles having no definite position or momentum.

what about the other dozen interpretations of QM? if any one of them are right all the others are wrong.

isnt that really just a ‘physics of the gaps’ argument? yes it is.

But regardless of wether or not the universe is determined and wether or not we have free will, we think we do, and hence we still make people responsible for their actions.

hold up, if one cannot help their actions, even if they think they can, how does that make them responsible for something they cant control?

thats like picking a random guy on the street, and telling him he is responsible for a car accident that happened across town.

This entire argument is simply another God of the Gaps. There is much we don’t know, therefore, it must be a God.

1. we can exclude any physical factor as the cause of the effect called ‘free will’, leaving only supernatural (non-physical) factors to account for it.
2. you attempt to argue against it with a ‘physics of the gaps’ argument.

its not a matter of what we know, its a matter of what we can exclude as possibilities, in this case we can exclude all physical factors as possibilities. that leaves only the non-physical

How about we say, we don’t know?

1. because we can and do know, free will must necessarily be an effect of non- physical causes.
2. its intellectual hide and seek. its the same as saying ‘i dont want to know’ as it may reach conclusions not supporting my position.

thats why we dont simply say ‘i don’t know’ it boils down to intellectual laziness or willful ignorance.

 

[MegaTherion]

because in a sheerly deterministic universe, its not real, sincere love. that would matter to me. why should i perform any altruistic act for that love if its fake?

What’s fake about it? Whether or not it’s determined or “freely” chosen, it exists.

You apparently mean something else by “real” – my guess would be that you’re using “real” to mean “meaningful in some non-temporal, ‘eternal,’ or ‘spiritual’ way.”

I don’t think anything is “real” in that way, and I also don’t think anything needs to be “real” in that way for me to act on it. Being really real (existing) is enough for me.

from the data it would seem that your concious mind is the last to know. it seems that the initiator would be what psychologists call the subconcious. that, taken with determinism, would seem to provide the perfect forum for the superimposition of non-physical factors in the exercise of free will.

I don’t know what you mean. If I “choose” to type these words, and yet these words have already been decided by a part of “me” of which I’m not aware…what does “free will” even mean?

 

[warpspeedpetey]

What’s fake about it? Whether or not it’s determined or “freely” chosen, it exists.

if you have no control of it, if it that love is determined by no more than the mathematical relationships between particles, it isnt really love, its coerced by determinism, its not what most people consider love, and as a coercion why would one behave altruisitcally?

only because one either did not know or was willfully ignorant of the coercive nature of that love.

You apparently mean something else by “real” – my guess would be that you’re using “real” to mean “meaningful in some non-temporal, ‘eternal,’ or ‘spiritual’ way.”

why would you assume that? i mean real as in i have a choice, i am not being coerced by any factors.

I don’t think anything is “real” in that way, and I also don’t think anything needs to be “real” in that way for me to act on it. Being really real (existing) is enough for me.

no, you cann act on false information thats a personal choice, just ignore the truth and pretend its ok anyway

this has little to do with the OP however. its only about how you choose to behave.

I don’t know what you mean. If I “choose” to type these words, and yet these words have already been decided by a part of “me” of which I’m not aware…what does “free will” even mean?

thats what the data says. psychologists have known about the subconcious for a long time now, im sure you are aware of that. so i would assume that ‘free will’ means the ability to choose. it just doesnt originate in the conciousness first, that doesnt make it not your choice.