Free Will, Determinism, Indetrminism, Moral Responsibility, and Salvation

[Prodigal_Son]

If determinism holds true, then every event or act that occurs could not have been otherwise. If determinism does not hold true, then indeterminism necessarily must hold true. And if indeterminism holds true, then some (not all) events or acts must occur randomly (uncaused).

Sloppy language. When you use phrases like “If all things are determined”, you will get clearer on the concepts here. Moreover, you need to explain what you mean by “determined”. Otherwise, it seems that a freely willed decision is just another type of determined event.

 

[CatholicSoxFan]

I don’t think you really believe the conclusion of this argument; do you really believe that the Stalins and Mao Zedongs of the world aren’t morally responsible for killing millions of people? If you were a defending lawyer in a court case, would you expect the judge to take seriously the argument that “He was determined to do what he did or what he did was random, so you can’t hold him morally responsible!”? Would you take said argument seriously if you were the judge?

And, as it has been brought up to you numerous times here, this argument ignores the possibility of self-determinism.

 

[DanAl]

It does make a difference in the sense that you have stated. But it doesn’t make a difference to the argument I have made in the OP. In fact, my argument assumes the reality of final causation because my argument assumes the reality of theism.

Alright, so you assume the reality of final causation, no problemo. But, why should be our natural inclination to seek God more fundamental than our ability to choose? I might see the importance of going to mass as a means to enjoy beatitude, but how should this constraint my ability to go and get drunk in a bar instead?