Free Will/ Free thought

[Joe_Savage]

If God is all knowing how can free will exist in humans to make their own decisions?
Could it be that God knows all possiblites of a situation such as an argument and what could lead from them and the humans through their actions thoughts or words pick the path? I’m not sure and would like to hear you’re ideas and thoughts

 

[Eileen_T]

Good question. Many years ago now I wondered the same thing and spent much time pondering before I resolved it to the best of my ability.

If God is all knowing how can free will exist in humans to make their own decisions?
Could it be that God knows all possiblites of a situation such as an argument and what could lead from them and the humans through their actions thoughts or words pick the path? I’m not sure and would like to hear you’re ideas and thoughts

God exists outside of Time and Space. For God there is only NOW. Everything is happening NOW. The creation, the crucifixion, the resurrection, our conception, life and death. God permits us to have free will, and in doing so is aware of the choices we will make. But we only make ONE choice each time and so God does not need to know of possibilities.

Radio Replies says this:

52. If God knows all things beforehand, is not that the end of our freedom?

No. God’s knowledge does not make us so act. An astronomer may be able to say, “There will be an eclipse of the sun.” When the eclipse comes, no one says that it had to come because the astronomer said it would. The astronomer’s knowledge was caused by the fact that it would come; the eclipse was not caused by the fact that he foresaw it.

 

[Tomb54]

Good question. Many years ago now I wondered the same thing and spent much time pondering before I resolved it to the best of my ability. God exists outside of Time and Space. For God there is only NOW. Everything is happening NOW. The creation, the crucifixion, the resurrection, our conception, life and death. God permits us to have free will, and in doing so is aware of the choices we will make. But we only make ONE choice each time and so God does not need to know of possibilities.

Radio Replies says this:

Right that is a pretty good way of putting it. For the same reason that God is outside time is how we as Catholic can offer Jesus to the Father as the pure offering at Mass (a continuation of Calvary not a redoing of it) as the bible said His follower would do. Since Jesus is God also everything he did is still happening since He too his outside time. Little hard to imagine that but I think it is the easiest way for us human to understand how you can have true free will and God can know what is going to happen based on knowing your decision ahead of time. You have your freewill and can and must chose the path of Christ everyday so while you can be saved in accepting Jesus you can again at a later date choose not to and fall away and while you made these decisions on your own each time and God did not force any on you, He still knows what the future and past is.

This is one argument some bishop that I had once heard for praying for the dead. If a person was not all that holy and died and most people would say they went to hell based on his sins. If someone in the future prayed for them then at their time of death in the past God might give them grace to repent as they are dying and in knowing they are dying choose to accept Jesus Christ. It is why the CC says you can not judge a person only the actions of that person. Makes you think lol.

This is one area that Presbyterians have allot of trouble and believe in predestination (once saved always saved type of doctrine). The way I understand it (and I may not have it all right) based on what one said to me is that you have free will until you choose God then after that God will keep you on the straight path. I asked one of them that was trying to convert me “then you are saying that once you choose God then he takes away your freewill?” His pastor told him I was saved and not to talk to me anymore.

 

[LilyM]

God’s knowing, or any person’s knowing, that something is happening or will happen to someone else does not in the least interfere with that other person’s free will.

A real life example - once my sister was playing with her little daughter on a recliner chair. From where I sat, I could see that they were in danger of tipping the chair over. I said to her ‘you’re gonna tip that thing over’. Think she believed me? Nope. Needless to say, shortly afterward the chair did indeed tip over, thankfully with no injuries of any kind.

Question - did my knowledge of the likely outcome in any way mean that my sister exerted no free will in what happened to her? Of course not in the slightest.

Don’t confuse foreknowledge with predestination.

 

[Joe_Savage]

thanks guys/girls really thought your responses were excellent helped me greatly as i slowly wittle away my certain doubts

 

[Eileen_T]

This is one argument some bishop that I had once heard for praying for the dead. If a person was not all that holy and died and most people would say they went to hell based on his sins. If someone in the future prayed for them then at their time of death in the past God might give them grace to repent as they are dying and in knowing they are dying choose to accept Jesus Christ. It is why the CC says you can not judge a person only the actions of that person. Makes you think lol.

This is particularly why we should pray and have Masses offered for friends and relatives who have led sinful lives particularly those who have committed suicide. There may be moments before the finality of death when they have a chance to sincerely repent.

The moments before death are when the Enemy seeks hardest to convince the dying that there is no hope for God’s Mercy, and many may despair when a simple cry to God will save them from eternal damnation.

I read of this when a man was rescued after being buried in an avalanche. When he was dug out and was being carried away he realised that his thoughts during that dreadful and frightening time had not been spent in prayer. He reflected on the importance of all the rosaries he had said when he had asked Our Blessed Mother to pray for him “now and at the hour of our death” because during the hour that could have resulted in his death he had not prayed for himself. (Arnold Lunn - a British convert)

 

[Terryem]

quote. From where I sat, I could see that they were in danger of tipping the chair over. I said to her ‘you’re gonna tip that thing over’. Think she believed me? Nope. Needless to say, shortly afterward the chair did indeed tip over, thankfully with no injuries of any kind.

Question - did my knowledge of the likely outcome in any way mean that my sister exerted no free will in what happened to her? Of course not in the slightest."

The above is incorrect I think in that it confuses foreknowledge with prediction. There is a predication involved based on base experience and current events, but no foreknowledge. The author of the thread did not truly KNOW that the chair was going to fall over; she thought it was quite likely that it might fall over. BUT that’s a world of difference from foreknowledge. God KNOWS what, in our universe, ‘will happen’ because all time is present to His eternity .

 

[Terryem]

If God is all knowing how can free will exist in humans to make their own decisions?
Could it be that God knows all possiblites of a situation such as an argument and what could lead from them and the humans through their actions thoughts or words pick the path? /quote]

It isn’t a matter of God knowing possibilities, though that might be true. But more to the point, God knows all actualities: He knows everything that exists in all time (Afterall, He causes it ‘to be’] Our whole history is one present moment to HIm. His grace filled actions toward us, including his constantly sustaining our free will, are based on what we do at each of our ‘moments’.

Re possibilities, he knows not only what ‘could be’, but he knows what actually comes to be in our time, because he ‘sees’ it as it ‘is’. He sustains actions following on the living indetermination of our free will,-as we seek to do what is ‘good’,-- even though they be distorted, because it’s in the nature of a person to have this sort of self creation [so-to-speak] and perfection or, on the other hand, self destruction and condemnation…

Terry

 

[Shlomo]

If God is all knowing how can free will exist in humans to make their own decisions?
Could it be that God knows all possiblites of a situation such as an argument and what could lead from them and the humans through their actions thoughts or words pick the path? I’m not sure and would like to hear you’re ideas and thoughts

Free will should not be confused with freedom of action. Every prisoner has free will. Nobody in this world can be granted unlimited freedom of action. Those who get into the Kingdom of God, after having developed perfect love and wisdom and totally submitted to the Lord, will be prepared to assume such a responsibility. I published a more broad discourse on the subject here:

vinishsky.com/OneGodTwoWorlds

 

[SophieG]

This is the way I think of free will:

My little sister has free will. However, I know her very well, and I know that if I offer her chocolate, she’ll take it. She could very well refuse it, but I know that she won’t.

God knows us much better than I know my little sister, so he knows what we will do in every situation. Although we could make a different choice, God knows that we won’t.

[Obviously, this analogy is a bit simplified–I doubt my sister would accept chocolate if she were throwing up at that very moment, for example.]

 

[soma]

The body has no freedom from the material laws, as the mind finds no freedom from the moral laws. It is like a dog chained to a tree, we only have freedom within the limits of the leash. The real freedom is within God’s pure consciousness in the moment. It is naturally all embracing, moving, blissful and unrestricted so the path to God’s pure consciousness is freedom, a moment-to-moment responsibility and an intuitive communion with God. We can meddle, tinker and mean well, but to break up old patterns of thought and behavior, we need to open ourselves to new possibilities. With the highest exercise of our intellect we know the purpose of our existence and can proceed to live intelligently according to it, if we direct our physical and mental activities to God the Father.

 

[antunesaa]

Right that is a pretty good way of putting it. For the same reason that God is outside time is how we as Catholic can offer Jesus to the Father as the pure offering at Mass (a continuation of Calvary not a redoing of it) as the bible said His follower would do. Since Jesus is God also everything he did is still happening since He too his outside time. Little hard to imagine that but I think it is the easiest way for us human to understand how you can have true free will and God can know what is going to happen based on knowing your decision ahead of time. You have your freewill and can and must chose the path of Christ everyday so while you can be saved in accepting Jesus you can again at a later date choose not to and fall away and while you made these decisions on your own each time and God did not force any on you, He still knows what the future and past is.

This is one argument some bishop that I had once heard for praying for the dead. If a person was not all that holy and died and most people would say they went to hell based on his sins. If someone in the future prayed for them then at their time of death in the past God might give them grace to repent as they are dying and in knowing they are dying choose to accept Jesus Christ. It is why the CC says you can not judge a person only the actions of that person. Makes you think lol.

This is one area that Presbyterians have allot of trouble and believe in predestination (once saved always saved type of doctrine). The way I understand it (and I may not have it all right) based on what one said to me is that you have free will until you choose God then after that God will keep you on the straight path. I asked one of them that was trying to convert me “then you are saying that once you choose God then he takes away your freewill?” His pastor told him I was saved and not to talk to me anymore.

This is a brilliant post and I totally agree with it. The trick is understanding God is outside time and space. The fact we have free will and we decide over things doesn’t mean that He doesn’t know what’s going to happen. Also, praying for the dead hinges on the hope that all future and past events related to a person are relevant for God in judging him/her. This is clearly possible if He judges outside time and space.

 

[dcastlen50]

If God is all knowing how can free will exist in humans to make their own decisions?
Could it be that God knows all possiblites of a situation such as an argument and what could lead from them and the humans through their actions thoughts or words pick the path? I’m not sure and would like to hear you’re ideas and thoughts

This is an excellent way to pose this issue. Please keep me posted.

 

[NowAgnostic]

If God is all knowing how can free will exist in humans to make their own decisions?
Could it be that God knows all possiblites of a situation such as an argument and what could lead from them and the humans through their actions thoughts or words pick the path? I’m not sure and would like to hear you’re ideas and thoughts

The standard reply is that God’s knowledge does not interfere with free will, does not “cause” the choice to be made. This simply won’t wash, because God is not a normal person, but has certain attributes in traditional theism.

It is not the case that God knows our choices as a result of our having made them. That would make Him (His knowledge) dependent on us and God is absolutely self-sufficient in all respects. Thus, His knowledge is not just temporally, but also logically prior to our choices; that’s why it’s typically called foreknowledge.

Now, whatever definition of free will one wants to use, most would admit there is no free will if there is not even the logical possibility of doing otherwise. Free will defenders often take God’s foreknowledge “off the table”, so to speak, and then claim person X has free will because there are logically possible worlds in which he does A and which he does not do A, everything being the same up to that point (not including God’s foreknowledge). However, God’s foreknowledge is ALSO part of the world, and there is no logically possible world with God’s foreknowledge of X doing A in which X does not do A. This should be enough to show the problem, but it will still be argued that God’s foreknowledge does not CAUSE the choice, even if it logically entails it (a choice being logically entailed is not “free will” to me, but different people have different ideas about what the “free” in “free will” means).

But, according to Divine simplicity God’s knowledge is IDENTICAL with His omnipotence, His power; His knowing and willing are one and the same thing, and nothing happens He does not will positively or at least permit, and His will IS the cause of everything (and don’t bring up sin; that is not a “thing” properly, ontologically speaking, but the “lack of a thing”); this will is prior to any choices of ours, and so the same objection stands; it is logically impossible to do otherwise than what God wills or permits, and when God wills something He is its cause.

The above argument stands whether you want to use a Thomist or Molinist framework, although the above was more Thomist in flavor. It’s the fashion nowadays to argue that saying that God’s foreknowledge and free will are incompatible is a “modal fallacy”. It is not. I am not arguing that God’s foreknowledge implies that our choices would be logically necessary in the absence of that foreknowledge - that would be a modal fallacy. I am arguing, in traditional theism, that with God’s foreknowledge our choices are logically entailed by something logically prior, though also itself contingent, and that does not sound much like “free” will to me.

 

[Kasey1]

God’s knowing, or any person’s knowing, that something is happening or will happen to someone else does not in the least interfere with that other person’s free will.

A real life example - once my sister was playing with her little daughter on a recliner chair. From where I sat, I could see that they were in danger of tipping the chair over. I said to her ‘you’re gonna tip that thing over’. Think she believed me? Nope. Needless to say, shortly afterward the chair did indeed tip over, thankfully with no injuries of any kind.

Question - did my knowledge of the likely outcome in any way mean that my sister exerted no free will in what happened to her? Of course not in the slightest.

Don’t confuse foreknowledge with predestination.

thans a lot mate!!!

 

[Erchomai_Kyrios]

REPLY#1

The standard reply is that God’s knowledge does not interfere with free will, does not “cause” the choice to be made. This simply won’t wash, because God is not a normal person, but has certain attributes in traditional theism.

Please define traditional theism? And are all God attributes really wholly defined by traditional theism? For traditional theism via Saint Paul says,”Who has know the mind of God?” He has also said,

“We do know the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Cor 2:14

But according to Scripture we are made aware that we were made in God’s image and therefore, since God is free therefore man has this attribute or potential within himself. Does God ever prescribe anything without providing a means by which we may accomplish it? For instance when He says :
**

"Is such the fast that I choose, a day for a person to humble himself? Is it to bow down his head like a reed, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? Will you call this a fast, and a day acceptable to the Lord ?
Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the straps of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh? Then shall your light break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up speedily; your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard. Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer; you shall cry, and HE will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you take away the yoke from your midst, the pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness, if you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. And the LORD will guide you continually and satisfy your desire in scorched places and make your bones strong; and you shall be like a watered garden, like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. Isaiah 58:5-11;

**
does not that imply that His provisional choice is dependent on His promise and not upon dependent on a finite being? What He offers us then is a free choice all be it a multiple choice - that is freedom to act within bounds. Which implied ‘degrees of freedom’ a statistical principle used often. He also says,

"Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you today; and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known. Deu 11:26-28

Again this implies a binary choice? It’s absurd to think man does not at least have limited free will by which is bounded by God’s judgment. Why would God hold us accountable and judge if actions were not within the bounds of conscience to act? Certainly this does not logically negate God Om(name removed by moderator)otence or Election. We learn from Joseph being sold into slavery by his own brothers that God redirects evil to good.

But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive. - Gen 50:20

You also said:

It is not the case that God knows our choices as a result of our having made them. That would make Him (His knowledge) dependent on us and God is absolutely self-sufficient in all respects. Thus, His knowledge is not just temporally, but also logically prior to our choices; that’s why it’s typically called foreknowledge.

Now, whatever definition of free will one wants to use, most would admit there is no free will if there is not even the logical possibility of doing otherwise.

Sorry but I don’t follow your logic. There is the possibility of doing otherwise and it falls that there are 2 consequences regarding the two choices God has given.

1. We will either repent and believe and come to true knowledge as adopted children belonging to Christ or
2. We will remain in unbelief, never repent and be cast from His presence for He never knew us.
   Do you know the Bible to say anything different than this? God Himself is the author of freedom, didn’t Jesus say,

**Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. - John 8:36 **

So I’ll say again that choice, especially binary choice doesn’t preclude omniscience or omnipotence. We can either choose to believe we are the ultimate arbiter of our destiny, remaining in the same lie that caused our nature to fall in the first place, or we can choose to repent and turn to Him and be saved as the Gospel tells us. Even Peter in dealing with a blasphemer believed God could still choose to forgive based on an action of repentence - take the case of Simon Magus

**And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit. But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.” ** Act 8:18-23

I see I won’t be able to finish my point in this post so I’ll continue in another.

 

[Erchomai_Kyrios]

(2ND Half of REPLY -Cont’d)

It is not the case that God knows our choices as a result of our having made them. That would make Him (His knowledge) dependent on us and God is absolutely self-sufficient in all respects. Thus, His knowledge is not just temporally, but also logically prior to our choices; that’s why it’s typically called foreknowledge.

Now, whatever definition of free will one wants to use, most would admit there is no free will if there is not even the logical possibility of doing otherwise.

Didn’t the early church fathers teach us that foreknowlege and omniscience are interwomen? And isn’t the postulate from mathematics that the finite a subset of the infinite? It therefore follows that the temporal is a subset of the eternal? We know that God is an eternal Being and that before the first femptosecond came into being with the creation of the physical universe, as Augustine taught, that God was and Christ was!
So if space/time was therefore induced into being from the mind of God, being subordinate to the eternal, then it is not a leap to know that God has knowledge beginning to end (e.g. foreknowledge), even if He predeterminatily chooses to use the mechanics of limited free will (degrees of freedom). He knows indeed what the return of space-time will be though He has indeed given us options through choice. The Bible says that the universe shall be rolled back up as a Scroll and that HIS WORD shall not return unto HIM void. His Word then shall produce God’s intended Will and accomplish His Purposes for which He created it and this logically does not exclude the purposes of Free will but rather reflects the image of Him who loves freedom and breaks our chains. God’s knowledge and election is therefore a given from the eternal perspective but from the temporal perspective does indeed provide opportunity while “it is still the day” Again our choice is our will be done or His will be done. And knowledge of God is spiritually discerned to whom He chooses to give it. But as we know God cannot lie and His promise is to those who repent and turn to Him. Shall God deny the gift or choose to give the gift according to the promise of His Word and His admonitions to us? In temporality true knowledge (to finish the passage up from REPLY#1 (1 Cor. 2:14 ) is dependent on Him

But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 1Cr 2:15-16

.
The early church Fathers from Irenaeus through Augustine all concur that true knowledge (God knowledge) is transcendently induced via the Holy Spirit. Just as the physically unconnected secondary winding of a transformer cannot generate power but derives its power from the primary which is connected to the power source we cannot attain true knowledge without God’s power being applied and received through His Son Jesus Christ. Our choice here again is binary turn to the Lord and be saved. But it is still our choice to make. God may also prompt our turning with admonishments as He did in Deu 11:26-28 and Isaiah 58:5-11; above. We may be won over to repentence, even in our fallen nature, by beholding the beauty of God, the righteousness of God, by His intervention in our life for good, as in the miracles of Jesus. Sometimes one can be led to repentance by afflictions and the bread of tears but God still allows us to make a choice ; one can either go the way of Pharoah or the way of Paul in that as well.

**Exodus 10:3 So Moses and Aaron came in to Pharaoh and said to him, "Thus says the LORD God of the Hebrews: 'How long will you refuse to humble yourself before Me? Let My people go, that they may serve Me. **

So even here there was both opportunity or choice - else God lies, which is impossible. In any case GOD gives His Spirit to whom He wills but His promises are all YES and AMEN. If we truly repent and turn to Him will not He who knows the heart of every man save and build His temple in that man’s heart? That is not presumption but believing the promise.
Yet where there is a requirement it follows that there is also a choice

Mic 6:8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?
Pro 3:34 Surely He scorns the scornful, But gives grace to the humble.
Pro 6:16 These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 29:23 A man’s pride will bring him low, But the humble in spirit will retain honor.
Isa 2:11-12 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, And the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. For the day of the LORD of hosts shall come upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up-- And it shall be brought low–
Mat 23:12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

And of the proud self righteous Pharisee and the lowly publican who repented with tears did Jesus not say:

Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

I will end my exegetical response here but would end by saying that the perspective from eternity is predetermined whereas from the temporal it is free. Thoughts?

 

[johngh]

Here’s another way of asking it.

If God already knows everything we will do, what’s the point of earth? Wouldn’t He know if we were going to Heaven or not, and He could totally just skip the earth step.

 

[NowAgnostic]

REPLY#1

Please define traditional theism? And are all God attributes really wholly defined by traditional theism? For traditional theism via Saint Paul says,”Who has know the mind of God?” He has also said,

Traditional theism: God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, immutable, and wholly simple.

But according to Scripture…

I don’t care what it says in Scripture. This is a philosophical debate.

does not that imply that His provisional choice is dependent on His promise and not upon dependent on a finite being? What He offers us then is a free choice all be it a multiple choice - that is freedom to act within bounds. Which implied ‘degrees of freedom’ a statistical principle used often. He also says,

This is begging the question - assuming that a multiple choice is logically possible, which I have shown not to be the case.

Again this implies a binary choice? It’s absurd to think man does not at least have limited free will by which is bounded by God’s judgment. Why would God hold us accountable and judge if actions were not within the bounds of conscience to act? Certainly this does not logically negate God Om(name removed by moderator)otence or Election.

Just saying so doesn’t make it so, and saying it’s in Scripture doesn’t make it so either.

Sorry but I don’t follow your logic. There is the possibility of doing otherwise and it falls that there are 2 consequences regarding the two choices God has given.

1. We will either repent and believe and come to true knowledge as adopted children belonging to Christ or
2. We will remain in unbelief, never repent and be cast from His presence for He never knew us.
   Do you know the Bible to say anything different than this? God Himself is the author of freedom, didn’t Jesus say,

No there is not the logical possibility of doing either given God’s foreknowledge, which is logically prior to the “choice” made.

So I’ll say again that choice, especially binary choice doesn’t preclude omniscience or omnipotence.

And I’ll say again that it does, and point to my argument above, which you provided no logical refutation whatsoever for.

We can either choose to believe we are the ultimate arbiter of our destiny, remaining in the same lie that caused our nature to fall in the first place, or we can choose to repent and turn to Him and be saved as the Gospel tells us. Even Peter in dealing with a blasphemer believed God could still choose to forgive based on an action of repentence - take the case of Simon Magus

No we can’t “choose” if only one of the possibilities is logically possible.

 

[NowAgnostic]

Didn’t the early church fathers teach us that foreknowlege and omniscience are interwomen? And isn’t the postulate from mathematics that the finite a subset of the infinite? It therefore follows that the temporal is a subset of the eternal?

Not sure of the relevance here. Anyway, a finite set is a subset of an infinite set, yes, but the definition of the eternal as “all time” is problematic as God is supposed to exist not within time, but outside of time. One could just as well argue using the same logic that as God is “infinite Being” that creatures are a subset of God.

So if space/time was therefore induced into being from the mind of God, being subordinate to the eternal, then it is not a leap to know that God has knowledge beginning to end (e.g. foreknowledge), even if He predeterminatily chooses to use the mechanics of limited free will (degrees of freedom).

So you agree that God’s knowledge is LOGICALLY PRIOR to what creatures with supposed “free will” actually do. And that means that for these creatures, given God’s foreknowledge, it is LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to do otherwise than what is foreknown.

God’s knowledge and election is therefore a given from the eternal perspective but from the temporal perspective does indeed provide opportunity while “it is still the day” Again our choice is our will be done or His will be done.

We don’t HAVE a “choice” because His knowledge and election are already present features of the world and logically prior to what we do.

So even here there was both opportunity or choice - else God lies, which is impossible.

Or, the claim of Scriptural inerrancy is false.

I will end my exegetical response here but would end by saying that the perspective from eternity is predetermined whereas from the temporal it is free. Thoughts?

Define “free”. If “free” means “logically possible” then it is not free, for it cannot happen otherwise than what is predetermined from eternity.