Free will in heaven?

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From another most or less unrelated thread we start with the usual blurb about how free will is such a wonderful gift from God:
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Mintaka:
But it’s amazing, the free will God gives us. Here we are, surrounded by beings far more powerful than us, and all they are commanded to do is watch and guard us, and maybe try to persuade us. We can still do as many wrong things as we want, or as many right ones.
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I then pointed out that the gift goes away when we die:
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cerad:
Until of course we die. Then no more free will. Very sad.
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To which was replied:
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colliric:
Why would you need free will in the afterlife? and why would you miss free will in the afterlife? Once you have passed on, you don’t need to have Free Will, it is a priviledge(sic) of life not an eternal right even after your death.
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So do we all agree that once we get to heaven there is no more free will?
 
cerad said:
From another most or less unrelated thread we start with the usual blurb about how free will is such a wonderful gift from God:

I then pointed out that the gift goes away when we die:

To which was replied:

So do we all agree that once we get to heaven there is no more free will?
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Answer: in the negative.

Though we describe our eternal reward as “blissful sight,” yet this description does not exhaust the reality; it is not, as it were, a definition, a complete designation of it. Even in eternity we will have not merely mind, but also will. Not only our intelligence, but our human desire will be totally satiated, for in knowing him who is the fount of all truth we will posses him who is the Infinite Good. As God is infinite he can belong to endlessly many creatures, but still be to each one of them totally his. “I am thy reward exceeding great,” said God to Abraham, the patriarch; but this saying in strictest truth is applicable to each one of the Blessed.
 
Tomster said:
Answer: in the negative.

Though we describe our eternal reward as “blissful sight,” yet this description does not exhaust the reality; it is not, as it were, a definition, a complete designation of it. Even in eternity we will have not merely mind, but also will. Not only our intelligence, but our human desire will be totally satiated, for in knowing him who is the fount of all truth we will posses him who is the Infinite Good. As God is infinite he can belong to endlessly many creatures, but still be to each one of them totally his. “I am thy reward exceeding great,” said God to Abraham, the patriarch; but this saying in strictest truth is applicable to each one of the Blessed.
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I understood the first sentence. You think there will be free will in heaven.

The second paragraph means?
 
There will be–can be–only God’s will in Heaven.

“…thy will be done on earth, as it is IN HEAVEN.”

Those disagreeing with the OP, I’d be grateful for any scripture on this. Not being narky or anything, I’d just like to look it up myself.
 
cerad said:
So we will still be free to commit evil acts in heaven?
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Of course not. In heaven, our intellects and wills will be perfected. Thus, we will always freely choose to do what is right. It is a perverse error of thought to think that free will requires the commission of evil.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
mlchance said:
Of course not. In heaven, our intellects and wills will be perfected. Thus, we will always freely choose to do what is right. It is a perverse error of thought to think that free will requires the commission of evil.

– Mark L. Chance.
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So all the threads that use free will to partially explain why evil exists in this world are wrong? Things could have been setup such that we always freely choose to do the right things?
 
35 FAQs about Heaven
by Peter Kreeft

peterkreeft.com/topics-more/35-faqs_eternity.htm
  1. Will we be free in Heaven? 1f so, will we be free to sin? If so, won’t anyone ever exercise that freedom?
    “Freedom to sin” is a contradiction in terms, like “freedom to be enslaved.” Free choice is only the means to true freedom, “the freedom of the sons of God,” liberty.
In heaven we will not sin because we will not want to. We will freely choose never to sin, just as now great mathematicians do not make elementary mistakes, though they have the power to do so. In Heaven we will see the attractiveness of goodness and of God so clearly, and the ugliness and stupidity of sin so clearly, that there will be no possible motive to sin.

Now, we are enslaved by ignorance. Every sin comes from ignorance, for we sin only because we see sin as somehow attractive, which it is not, and goodness as somehow lacking in attraction. This is an ignorance that we are responsible for, but it is ignorance, and without that ignorance we would not sin. In Heaven, in the “beatific vision” of God, overwhelmed and filled with the total joy of goodness, baptized with goodness as a sunken ship is filled with water, no one could possibly ever want to turn from this perceived glory. Now, “we walk by faith, not by sight”(2 Cor. 5:7). Heavenly sight will not remove our freedom. Ask the blind whether sight would remove their freedom.
 
cerad said:
So we will still be free to commit evil acts in heaven?
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No, true freedom is choosing what is right. Choosing evil is slavery not freedom.

Is God more free or less free than we are? He cannot choose evil.

Please see this:
For, as the possibility of error, and actual error, are defects of the mind and attest its imperfection, so the pursuit of what has a false appearance of good, though a proof of our freedom, just as a disease is a proof of our vitality, implies defect in human liberty. The will also, simply because of its dependence on the reason, no sooner desires anything contrary thereto than it abuses its freedom of choice and corrupts its very essence. Thus it is that the infinitely perfect God, although supremely free, because of the supremacy of His intellect and of His essential goodness, nevertheless cannot choose evil; neither can the angels and saints, who enjoy the beatific vision. St. Augustine and others urged most admirably against the Pelagians that, if the possibility of deflection from good belonged to the essence or perfection of liberty, then God, Jesus Christ, and the angels and saints, who have not this power, would have no liberty at all, or would have less liberty than man has in his state of pilgrimage and imperfection…
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catholic1seeks said:
“Freedom to sin” is a contradiction in terms, like “freedom to be enslaved.”
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Can you explain this in more detail? Freedom and sin don’t seem to be contradictory to me. They are different concepts completely.

And “freedom to be enslaved.” seems irrelevant.
 
fix said:
No, true freedom is choosing what is right. Choosing evil is slavery not freedom.

Is God more free or less free than we are? He cannot choose evil.
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Yes, God is unable to choose evil. So why can the notion of free will be used to say that it makes evil possible?

In other words, you can’t utilize philosophical compatibilism when speaking of heaven and God and then revert to philosophical libertarianism when speaking of humans prior to heaven/purgatory/hell. (This is the error of classical Arminianism which attempts to retain Total Depravity and reject the rest of Calvinism.)
 
Confessor01 said:
In other words, you can’t utilize philosophical compatibilism when speaking of heaven and God and then revert to philosophical libertarianism when speaking of humans prior to heaven/purgatory/hell. (This is the error of classical Arminianism which attempts to retain Total Depravity and reject the rest of Calvinism.)
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Yikes, a lot of big words in your post. First off, I’m not asking about God, I’m asking about people. So anything that applies only to God is irrelevant unless you think we ourselves are gods or will become gods.

All I’m really asking is: will we have free will in heaven?
 
cerad said:
Yikes, a lot of big words in your post. First off, I’m not asking about God, I’m asking about people. So anything that applies only to God is irrelevant unless you think we ourselves are gods or will become gods.

All I’m really asking is: will we have free will in heaven?
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I apologize. Clarity can often be a problem for me, usually because I dispense of it for the sake of conciseness. I will try to fix that in the future.

And otherwise, no, I do not believe we will have free will in heaven. But I also believe we do not have free will now, in the sense that “free will” is used by most people. (I am a Calvinist, if that helps you understand.)
 
Confessor01 said:
Yes, God is unable to choose evil. So why can the notion of free will be used to say that it makes evil possible?

In other words, you can’t utilize philosophical compatibilism when speaking of heaven and God and then revert to philosophical libertarianism when speaking of humans prior to heaven/purgatory/hell. (This is the error of classical Arminianism which attempts to retain Total Depravity and reject the rest of Calvinism.)
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Well, on earth we do not have the beatific vision. Would you say that makes a difference?
 
fix said:
Well, on earth we do not have the beatific vision. Would you say that makes a difference?
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Yes, that makes a difference.

But, the question is, If God is capable of making it so that we are all guaranteed to choose good, then why wouldn’t He do so now?

Or rather, if free will is the entity used to explain the existence of evil in the world (viz. because free will necessitaties the possibility of evil), then the possibility of evil must be allowed in heaven. You can argue that the beatific vision significantly reduces it, but if you want to say that it’s truly impossible to sin in heaven, then you must say that we don’t have free will.
 
cerad said:
Can you explain this in more detail? Freedom and sin don’t seem to be contradictory to me. They are different concepts completely.

And “freedom to be enslaved.” seems irrelevant.
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Cerad, you’re not thinking of freedom, you’re thinking of license. The two should not be confused. Today, the world wants license, not freedom, yet they present it under the guise of “freedom”.

Taken from anselmphilosophy.com/read/?p=7:
Freedom
Self-directedness
Freedom is taking “responsibility for our own life. Insofar as it is compatible with the common good, people should be allowed to choose freely how they want to live.
Freedom, within the context of mutual “respect, leads to independent and energetic action. This is certainly preferable to forced conformity. It is good for individuals and the “community If I can choose to become a teacher or a doctor or an entrepreneur rather than being forced into some job, I will be “happier in my work and more likely to succeed. This certainly benefits me, but it also benefits the community. Of course, freedom is not an absolute: if my free action seriously violates the common good, it should not be permitted.
Freedom is a positive force in many areas. In writing a paper for history class, a certain independence in choosing the topic and method aids the learning process. A coach has to give her athletes a degree of freedom to make decisions in a game, for new situations will arise that demand creative solutions. In government, the freedom to vote gives people a stake in their future. In all of these examples, self-discipline and responsibility are required if the freedom is to be fruitful.
Freedom and license must not be confused:
freedom embraces responsibility and is guided by reason and virtue; license is choice without restraint.

License
Self-abandonment
License is the throwing off of all “responsibility. It is a carte blanche to do as we feel. As such, it is incompatible with virtue and destroys “community.
License, as the throwing off of all responsibility leads to absurd and dangerous action. On the personal level, license leads to “moral chaos. If my actions are based merely on whim or the “impulse of the moment, they are completely unpredictable, even to me. On the social level, license leads to anarchy — the lack of all dedication to the common good. This is obviously bad for the community, but license is also bad for those who exercise it. I strive to be free from responsibility rather than to be free to take charge of my
life.
License can cause damage in the very places where freedom enriches. If license rules in choosing topic and method, a history paper might not even remotely relate to history. Athletes cannot succeed in a sport by acting on mere whim, for each sport requires discipline, and team sports demand a high degree of cooperation. If the members of a society ignore all restrictions of “law, that society will not survive. License abandons personal responsibility and so loses the creative energy and fruitfulness of freedom.
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Snerticus,

Would you say one is free to do a given act if and only if he is capable of doing otherwise?
 
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