Free will in heaven?

[SonofMonica]

The following is intended for fellow Catholics for discussion, not as a “gotcha”. Would love some serious feedback and thoughts.

Four premises, which I believe accurately reflect Church teaching;

Premise No. 1: Men are created in the image and likeness of God (CC 1701).

Premise No. 2: Men have free will–the ability to choose to do right or wrong. (CC 1730). It is free will, then, that enabled Adam and all of us to sin. (CC 397, 1732).

Premise No. 3: Angels have free will, as well (CC 330). They, like men, have the capability to sin, and have done so (CC 391-392).

Premise No. 4: We are promised that in Heaven there will be no sin (1045, 1048, 1050).

So, four questions:

Question No. 1: Will men have free will in Heaven?

Question No. 2: If not, why did God bother giving men free will in the first place, thereby unnecessarily introducing sin on Earth?

Question No. 3: If so, how can there be no sin in Heaven, when the consequence of free will on Earth was sin?

Question No. 4: If there is no sin in Heaven, how is it that Satan and the other fallen angels chose to sin back in the day?

 

[Benadam]

It seems a paradox. Imagine that anything you would do is good. You don’t have to choose good over evil you are so free that it is good because you did it. This is the human freedom God rewards us with in heaven. .

 

[SonCatcher]

The premises are flawed as stated.

Premise 2 should be corrected along the lines of:
Men have free will–the ability to choose between different options (which may include multiples of right and wrong options)

Premise 3 should be corrected along the lines of:
Angels, like men, have the capability to sin, and many have done so.

Thus clarified, I present the following answers:

Q1: Yes. People will have free will in Heaven. However, as they will be perfected, they will only select from among the good options.

Q2: not applicable

Q3: In Heaven, we will be free from concupiscence. That is, we will no longer have the disordered desires that original sin left us with and tempt us to fall into sin.

Q4: Satan and the other fallen angels sinned because of their pride. They chose their path at the moment God made them. Their case is indeed perplexing because they knew the consequence of rebellion and the reward for obedience when they made their choice.

 

[Benadam]

Q4: Satan and the other fallen angels sinned because of their pride. They chose their path at the moment God made them. Their case is indeed perplexing because they knew the consequence of rebellion and the reward for obedience when they made their choice.

I’ll bet attachement to their own perfection and beauty was prefered as a good over God. The revelation of man may have scandalized Lucifer and sin was concieved.

 

[TimothyH]

Question No. 2: If not, why did God bother giving men free will in the first place, thereby unnecessarily introducing sin on Earth?
?

My thought is that too much emphasis is placed on free will and not enough on trusting God.

Adam and Eve were face to face with satan himself. He was no cute little snake like in the paintings, but the devil himself. And the father of lies looked Adam and Eve and said, “You will not die.” But whether they ate or didn’t eat, they were going to die. If they hadn’t eaten, satan would have killed them.

And that is where they failed to trust God, that God would have raised them from the dead. Abraham was the first man to learn to trust God, that he could and would raise us from the dead, and Jesus came to prove it, to prove that we can trust God.

Free will? I think it is overrated. It focuses too much on obedience and disobedience but that isn’t what God wants. God the Father want more than obedience. God the Father wants us to trust him. Christ obeyed, but most of all, he trusted.

I don’t know about free will in Heaven, but we will trust God, that’s for sure.

-Tim-

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Ave Maria

Our will in heaven, once given the beatific vision, will be perfectly aligned to God’s will. Since it’ll be a perfect union between God and creature in an eternal communion, sin will not touch us nor enter our contemplation when He will lift us into his Divine Nature. How can one choose evil or wrong when have truly seen God and part of the body of Christ, that is part of God. “God became man so that man might become God” (St. Augustine), referring to our Divinization (Theosis). Our essence/nature will become complete in heaven, so it is natural to say that this completeness will fill our will with good.

I suggest you look to our Blessed Mother, who was on earth preserved from original sin yet displayed the perfect characteristics of a fully realized human in her daily life, she never chose wrong or evil under her own will.

Pax

 

[jsaldar]

Earth is a test, we are tempted by the devil and we choose God or the devil.
We are judged at death according to how we do on this test and sent to our final destinations (hell or heaven).
In heaven there is no temptation so no sin is possible. Hence you don’t need to make any choice.

 

[jochoa]

The following is intended for fellow Catholics for discussion, not as a “gotcha”. Would love some serious feedback and thoughts.

Four premises, which I believe accurately reflect Church teaching;

Premise No. 1: Men are created in the image and likeness of God (CC 1701).

Premise No. 2: Men have free will–the ability to choose to do right or wrong. (CC 1730). It is free will, then, that enabled Adam and all of us to sin. (CC 397, 1732).

Premise No. 3: Angels have free will, as well (CC 330). They, like men, have the capability to sin, and have done so (CC 391-392).

Premise No. 4: We are promised that in Heaven there will be no sin (1045, 1048, 1050).

So, four questions:

Question No. 1: Will men have free will in Heaven?

Question No. 2: If not, why did God bother giving men free will in the first place, thereby unnecessarily introducing sin on Earth?

Question No. 3: If so, how can there be no sin in Heaven, when the consequence of free will on Earth was sin?

Question No. 4: If there is no sin in Heaven, how is it that Satan and the other fallen angels chose to sin back in the day?

1. Yes.
2. n/a
3. The analysis is slightly incomplete. Sin is the consequence of free will AND ignorance. Therefore, the consequence of Wise Free Will is a Sinless Society.
4. Unfortunately, I have not yet studied how God created Angels, and therefore cannot offer an answer.

 

[SonofMonica]

If they had free will in heaven, I am most curious how the beatific vision was not enough to keep the angels from being tempted. Since it will apparently be enough to perfectly orient our own free wills with that of God, why wasn’t that the case with Lucifer and the other angels when they were in heaven with God?

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

If they had free will in heaven, I am most curious how the beatific vision was not enough to keep the angels from being tempted. Since it will apparently be enough to perfectly orient our own free wills with that of God, why wasn’t that the case with Lucifer and the other angels when they were in heaven with God?

They did not have it to begin with, it was given to the faithful by grace.

St. Aquinas comes to mind on this matter, since he is our Angelic Doctor.

Question 62 and more in Prima Pars under “The Angels”.

 

[Stevin_Habba]

I am no expert on this subject, but let’s take a look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the fall of the angels and a bit on the beatific vision. Maybe it can help, I’ll leave my opinion out of this, because I don’t want to say anything theologically incorrect.

II. THE FALL OF THE ANGELS

391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called “Satan” or the “devil”.267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."268

392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271

393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."272

394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."274 In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.

395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God’s reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him."275

VI. THE HOPE OF THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH

1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed:

The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.631
1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth."632 It will be the definitive realization of God’s plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth."633

1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.634 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."635

1045 For man, this consummation will be the final realization of the unity of the human race, which God willed from creation and of which the pilgrim Church has been "in the nature of sacrament."636 Those who are united with Christ will form the community of the redeemed, “the holy city” of God, "the Bride, the wife of the Lamb."637 She will not be wounded any longer by sin, stains, self-love, that destroy or wound the earthly community.638 The beatific vision, in which God opens himself in an inexhaustible way to the elect, will be the ever-flowing well-spring of happiness, peace, and mutual communion.

1046 For the cosmos, Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man:

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God . . . in hope because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay. . . . We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.639
1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, “so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just,” sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.640

1048 "We know neither the moment of the consummation of the earth and of man, nor the way in which the universe will be transformed. The form of this world, distorted by sin, is passing away, and we are taught that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, in which happiness will fill and surpass all the desires of peace arising in the hearts of men."641

 

[jochoa]

If they had free will in heaven, I am most curious how the beatific vision was not enough to keep the angels from being tempted.

I think…this is recognition of the power of Free Desire and Will. Some people have closed off their heart, mind, and will to the reasoning, justification, fairness, purpose, method, and Love of God.
Their reasons for shutting down are many and vast. Some may think they can do things better. Some may not be able to see through a hypocrite. Some may not be able to forgive a parent for poor parenting. Some may be afraid of death. Some may be unable to find the truth in some paradoxes. etc.

I think…Lucifer was shared the beatific vision but thought he could do things better.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Yes, there will be free will but one cannot choose to do evil. Why? Evil is described as a lack (of perfection) and there will be no lack in Heaven.

 

[Dorothy]

They did not have it to begin with, it was given to the faithful by grace.

St. Aquinas comes to mind on this matter, since he is our Angelic Doctor.

Question 62 and more in Prima Pars under “The Angels”.

St. Thomas Acquinas is the most excellent source to answer the op’s question!

Thanks…

 

[SonofMonica]

Yes, there will be free will but one cannot choose to do evil. Why? Evil is described as a lack (of perfection) and there will be no lack in Heaven.

If one can have free will without the ability to make a choice to do wrong, why weren’t we made that way here, then? And if God prefers it the way it was made here, why make heaven differently?

 

[SonCatcher]

If one can have free will without the ability to make a choice to do wrong, why weren’t we made that way here, then? And if God prefers it the way it was made here, why make heaven differently?

Ave Maria

Our will in heaven, once given the beatific vision, will be perfectly aligned to God’s will. Since it’ll be a perfect union between God and creature in an eternal communion, sin will not touch us nor enter our contemplation when He will lift us into his Divine Nature. How can one choose evil or wrong when have truly seen God and part of the body of Christ, that is part of God. “God became man so that man might become God” (St. Augustine), referring to our Divinization (Theosis). Our essence/nature will become complete in heaven, so it is natural to say that this completeness will fill our will with good.

I suggest you look to our Blessed Mother, who was on earth preserved from original sin yet displayed the perfect characteristics of a fully realized human in her daily life, she never chose wrong or evil under her own will.

Pax

It won’t so much be the inability to choose evil but, as Trevor wrote, we will be perfectly in alignment with God’s will. As such, we will totally lack desire to do evil.

The Fall (not any act of God) is the reason we struggle with sin in this life. It is actually a great grace that we can fall into sin a thousand times and subsequently repent and return to Grace. The angels do not have that ability. Once they fall, they are lost forever.

I don’t think God prefers one realm over the other. He just created Heaven and Earth for different purposes.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

If one can have free will without the ability to make a choice to do wrong, why weren’t we made that way here, then? And if God prefers it the way it was made here, why make heaven differently?

It’s the nature of a finite Universe that there will be a lack (of perfection). Entropy and finitude make temporal existence inherently imperfect. Creation is good but it is not intended to be perfect nor our ultimate destiny. Further, making humanity unable to choose between moral outcomes defeats the purpose of free will. The exercise of free will allows us to apply choice as moral agents and, thereby, determine our willingness to aspire to holiness and to have a relationship to God within Heaven; not as automatons, but as willing persons.

 

[fhansen]

The following is intended for fellow Catholics for discussion, not as a “gotcha”. Would love some serious feedback and thoughts.

Four premises, which I believe accurately reflect Church teaching;

Premise No. 1: Men are created in the image and likeness of God (CC 1701).

Premise No. 2: Men have free will–the ability to choose to do right or wrong. (CC 1730). It is free will, then, that enabled Adam and all of us to sin. (CC 397, 1732).

Premise No. 3: Angels have free will, as well (CC 330). They, like men, have the capability to sin, and have done so (CC 391-392).

Premise No. 4: We are promised that in Heaven there will be no sin (1045, 1048, 1050).

So, four questions:

Question No. 1: Will men have free will in Heaven?

Question No. 2: If not, why did God bother giving men free will in the first place, thereby unnecessarily introducing sin on Earth?

Question No. 3: If so, how can there be no sin in Heaven, when the consequence of free will on Earth was sin?

Question No. 4: If there is no sin in Heaven, how is it that Satan and the other fallen angels chose to sin back in the day?

I believe that his life, an exile from the Father not unlike the self-imposed exile of the Prodigal Son, has the ultimate purpose, probably in conjunction with purgatory, of molding us into beings who’re completely sold out to God, who’s wills have come into alignment with His, who no longer have any vestige of rebellion against Him. IOW, beings who have come to fulfill the greatest commandment, without coercion but with Gods help, of freely coming to love Him with their whole heart, soul, mind and strength because they’ve finally come to recognize the supreme value of God and of His love.