Free will in Heaven?

[nkelly]

Greeting brothers and sisters in Christ, long time no post

I’ve being doing battle with a group of atheists and the subject of why does God allow evil came up and I spoke about free will and they said that God was irresponsible and so on and so on. I have 3 related questions please.

1. Why were not created in Heaven from the beginning instead of this “Valley of Tears”?
2. Do we have free will in Heaven and if so how what would prevent us from abusing this free will and rebelling against God? Or would a superabundance of grace prevent this?
3. What’s to prevent us falling from Heaven like the fallen angels?

God bless,
Noel.

 

[ricmat]

Greeting brothers and sisters in Christ, long time no post

I’ve being doing battle with a group of atheists and the subject of why does God allow evil came up and I spoke about free will and they said that God was irresponsible and so on and so on. I have 3 related questions please.

1. Why were not created in Heaven from the beginning instead of this “Valley of Tears”?
2. Do we have free will in Heaven and if so how what would prevent us from abusing this free will and rebelling against God? Or would a superabundance of grace prevent this?
3. What’s to prevent us falling from Heaven like the fallen angels?

God bless,
Noel.

OK - here’s my opinion.

NOTE: The following message has not been approved by the Vatican commission on religious stuff. But I have no reason to believe it’s wrong.

There is no free will in Heaven. Our life on this earth is an exercise in giving up our own free will, and replacing it with God’s will. Thy will be done on earth (our job to make it so) as it is in heaven (in other words, there is no will but God’s in heaven).

Lift up your hearts.
We lift them up to the Lord.

We offer our free will, our souls, to God to do with as he wills.

We were not created in heaven because if God forced us to be there…what kind of love would that be? Love must be chosen, not forced. So we need free will long enough to choose God.

At the time the angels rebelled, they had free will, but no longer do…it was apparently a one-time deal. I’m not sure where I read this but I think it’s correct. Man has free will and can change his nature. Angels are spiritual beings, and other than that one time, cannot change their natures.

Hope this helps!

 

[Nita]

My understanding is that we will still have free will in heaven, but in such a way that we only will to do what God desires.

One can think of the free will possessed by the 3 Persons of the Trinity. There is never a conflict of wills; they will only what is good, loving, etc.

I think there will be something about the beatific vision that solidifies the direction of our choices in heaven. We too will desire and choose only the good, loving, etc that God chooses.

If free will were taken away, we would no longer be human and we would no longer be in God’s image and likeness.

Nita

 

[ncgolf]

1. Why were not created in Heaven from the beginning instead of this “Valley of Tears”?

How would we ever know what free will is if we could have never experienced it … both the good and bad consequences of a wrong choice. Can a person who grew up with wealth all around them ever really know what it is like to be poor?

1. Do we have free will in Heaven and if so how what would prevent us from abusing this free will and rebelling against God? Or would a superabundance of grace prevent this?

Why would we not have free will? What kind of god would God be if we could not freely choose to serve him. If no free will then he is a tryant, a dictator, a super Sadaam Hussein. This goes for heaven too … I imagine we see things so clearly and unambiguously that the correct action comes naturally. When we were learning mathematics 2 + 2 may have been difficult, but now … how many times if asked how much 2 +2 is does anyone really answer anything other than 4.

1. What’s to prevent us falling from Heaven like the fallen angels?

The angels were tested upon their creation … they had to freely submit to God or not. Some chose not to serve and feel but once the choice is made it is irrevocable for the angels. The angels upon their creation were not in heaven until their choice was made.

 

[teachccd]

My understanding is that we will still have free will in heaven, but in such a way that we only will to do what God desires.

One can think of the free will possessed by the 3 Persons of the Trinity. There is never a conflict of wills; they will only what is good, loving, etc.

I think there will be something about the beatific vision that solidifies the direction of our choices in heaven. We too will desire and choose only the good, loving, etc that God chooses.

If free will were taken away, we would no longer be human and we would no longer be in God’s image and likeness.

Nita

I was just going to write all of this but you beat me to it!!

 

[tm30]

Greeting brothers and sisters in Christ, long time no post

I’ve being doing battle with a group of atheists and the subject of why does God allow evil came up and I spoke about free will and they said that God was irresponsible and so on and so on. I have 3 related questions please.

1. Why were not created in Heaven from the beginning instead of this “Valley of Tears”?
2. Do we have free will in Heaven and if so how what would prevent us from abusing this free will and rebelling against God? Or would a superabundance of grace prevent this?
3. What’s to prevent us falling from Heaven like the fallen angels?

God bless,
Noel.

1. Eden was essentially a corporeal heaven until Satan was thrown to earth, where he possessed the body of the serpent.
2. We don’t have “free will” in heaven because our wills are perfectly united to God’s. We will want for nothing else, because everything we could POSSIBLY want will be satisfied.
3. We will not fall from heaven because no one can tempt us to reject God in the presence of His Glory - and that is an eternal condition.

 

[fhansen]

My take on it is that Adam & Eve had everything people could possibly want but didn’t know it yet-kind of like rich kids who don’t appreciate their wealth and squander it-in their case by turning away from the greatest good-God. This valley of tears which we live in is a place where we know evil-and by contrast should learn to run towards the good when we’re offered it. But the learning, the molding by the potter until we choose Him alone as worthy of our love, is what we’re here to do. This learning involves struggling against sin, which means putting created “goods” ahead of the one good, God- until, hopefully, we choose only God. I think God is in just that sort of business with us-molding us into creatures who will voluntarily make the right choice in order to rectify Adams’ wrong choice. Through Adam mankind was banned from eating from the tree of life-God Himself- until the time was ripe in history, in human history and then in our own, individual histories, when we may once again eat from the tree of life who is Jesus, the Lord and God of all. So in order to make that choice reality, by the end of this life or finally in purgatory if this valley of tears wasn’t purgatory enough, we will be rid of the idea that we can find happiness outside of God.

 

[kmcmona]

Hello ! i too have been wondering about this after having 2 loved ones die this past year- i found an excellent article on EWTN"s web site the link is below- have a blessed day ! Kathy

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/FRWILL.htm

 

[nkelly]

Thanks Kathy and to everyone else who replied.

 

[holy_wood]

I think we will have free will in Heaven its just that our will shall be so united with God that we will not want to go against him.

We have rational souls and in Heaven seeing the beatific vision and fully comprehending the awsome glory of God only a fool would go against it.

In Heaven we will be restored to what we were before the fall and our flesh will once again be subordinate to the spirit not vice versa.

Does anyone here have the urge to set themselves on fire or bathe in a vat of acid?

No, well although an imperfect analogy I think the urge to commit sin will be thousands of time less appealing than the examples given above, especially when there is no demon whispering in your ear to do so.

 

[Dameedna]

If you do not have free will, you don’t have “you”.

So either you still exist, or you don’t.

Honestly, do you want to exist without any will of your own? without any thought of your own? without…well you?

People talke about a glorious reward in heaven, but so many people’s view on this, seem ultimately Nihilistic. There is no point.

You no longer have any choices, nothing left to do, and you exist with a will that is no longer your own.

What’s the point?

 

[fhansen]

If you do not have free will, you don’t have “you”.

So either you still exist, or you don’t.

Honestly, do you want to exist without any will of your own? without any thought of your own? without…well you?

People talke about a glorious reward in heaven, but so many people’s view on this, seem ultimately Nihilistic. There is no point.

You no longer have any choices, nothing left to do, and you exist with a will that is no longer your own.

What’s the point?

Good point!

 

[brsccrgy17]

. We will not fall from heaven because no one can tempt us to reject God in the presence of His Glory - and that is an eternal condition.

Who tempted Lucifer in Heaven then? He chose to deny God without temptor.

 

[nkelly]

If you do not have free will, you don’t have “you”.

So either you still exist, or you don’t.

Honestly, do you want to exist without any will of your own? without any thought of your own? without…well you?

People talke about a glorious reward in heaven, but so many people’s view on this, seem ultimately Nihilistic. There is no point.

You no longer have any choices, nothing left to do, and you exist with a will that is no longer your own.

What’s the point?

I’m sure God has free will but He doesn’t want to commit any evil because it would be against His nature and self destructive.

As St. Paul said, there is a constant struggle between the flesh and the spirit and the body is conducive to sin. When we no longer have a fleshy body, the spirit should start to rule.

 

[nkelly]

Who tempted Lucifer in Heaven then? He chose to deny God without temptor.

Lucifer wasn’t temped, his own pride drove him to defy God. There is a theory that before the fall of the angels, God didn’t reveal His full glory thereby testing the angel’s free will better.

 

[Dameedna]

I’m sure God has free will but He doesn’t want to commit any evil because it would be against His nature and self destructive.

As St. Paul said, there is a constant struggle between the flesh and the spirit and the body is conducive to sin. When we no longer have a fleshy body, the spirit should start to rule.

And you point is?

 

[Layp3rs0n]

For the answers to these questions we can reference Saint Thomas Aquinas. Do we have free will in Heaven? Well, lets look at the angels. They were created in Heaven…did they have free will? Yes. What made some fall and others not? Aquinas says they were created outside of time in what we call Eternity. So all of their choices are really one choice rolled into one (that is to say that every choice they have ever made flows automatically from their first and only real choice. Since they were created in Eternity before time existed, their only choice was “Do you wish to serve God, yes or no?” They because they had free will made the choice of their own accord at the instant of their own creation. Some chose yes others no. Those who chose yes still do God’s will because that was their eternal choice, and it is the polar opposite for those who chose not to. They cannot change their minds because they chose their own path when first created. They are eternally exersizing the free will that God gave them. To Satan the decision to oppose God on the last day is the same decision to oppose God at his creation…he does not destinguish between the two.
Now, how does this apply to your wquestion? After all you didn’t ask about angels you askes about people. Well, here’s how: People get many decisions only because our existence is spread out over the fourth dimension. In time we grow, change, develop new ideas and beliefs. We are not given the experience of the Beatific vision in this life, so we have to gradually mature until God tells us it is time to make our final decision. How do we make that decision? We die.You see in death we enter Eternity. We quit the forth dimension and how the state of mind we die in becomes (like the angels) our eternal decision. This is why it is imperitive we stay in a state of grace and not die in mortal sin. To die in a state of grace means our eternal decision is to serve God forever, to die in a state of mortal sin means… well you get the idea. In entering eternity we will have used our free will to its zenith, and whatever that decision is we will not be able to deviate from it. So, no we will NOT be able to fall from Heaven once there because we our decision was to be with God. Likewise those in Hell cannot change their minds because their minds are made up.

In answer to your question as to why God allowed us to be able to make our decision in time and angels in Eternity, that is something you will have to ask God when you see Him.

 

[nkelly]

And you point is?

I thought it was reasonably clear. Life in the flesh is far more conducive to sin than is life without the body or life with a glorified/resurrected body.

 

[nkelly]

Thanks Layp3rs0n.

 

[brandymmiller]

Greeting brothers and sisters in Christ, long time no post

I’ve being doing battle with a group of atheists and the subject of why does God allow evil came up and I spoke about free will and they said that God was irresponsible and so on and so on. I have 3 related questions please.

1. Why were not created in Heaven from the beginning instead of this “Valley of Tears”?
2. Do we have free will in Heaven and if so how what would prevent us from abusing this free will and rebelling against God? Or would a superabundance of grace prevent this?
3. What’s to prevent us falling from Heaven like the fallen angels?

God bless,
Noel.

This is my own conjecture, so take it for what it’s worth.

1. Earth was not originally a Valley of Tears. It was a paradise which mirrored heaven except that it had a built in test - the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. All our first parents had to do in order to move from an earthly paradise to Heaven is to pass that test by showing that they could follow God’s commandment. He gave them one commandment: Don’t eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, don’t even touch it. They disobeyed. Their disobedience resulted in the introduction of death, disease, and disorders of every kind being introduced into the world turning what had been paradise into the Valley of Tears. Why the test? Free will. You can’t have free will without choices. If I’m never given the opportunity to do wrong, I never have the chance to do right either.
2. Yes, we will have free will in Heaven. The caveat here is that we must have proven by the way we live our life here on earth that we are able and willing to choose to do right when presented the opportunity to do wrong. We must, in other words, have learned to love God, ourselves, and our fellow man so well that it would be unthinkable to hurt someone else by choosing to sin, since if sin were present in heaven the consequences of that sin would be there, too, and we know that heaven is a place free from that pain. This is also why the Catholic Church teaches that there are both degrees of heaven and of hell. We are able to experience heaven only as much as we are able to learn to love.
3. The angels who fell were able to do so only because they had not yet entered heaven. Like man, they too were given a test. Those who passed have entered heaven. Those who failed roam the earth right now spreading their misery and hatred amongst mankind.