Free Will Necessary?

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Is it the teaching of the Church that it is necessary to have free will in order to deserve Heaven or hell?
 
Love requires free will. without free will, it is not love. Salvation requires love
 
Does an infant for a mentally deminished person who does not have the capacity for free will then able to be saved?
 
expectthebest said:
Does an infant for a mentally deminished person who does not have the capacity for free will then able to be saved?
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Yes. When someone is “unable” to come to Jesus by normative means, Christ accepts intercession. Examples in Scripture include when Christ healed the paralytic because of the faith of his friends, when he healed the centurian’s servant at the centurian’s request, or the woman whose daughter was healed at her request.
 
Is a person without free will more or less likely to be saved?
 
expectthebest said:
Is it the teaching of the Church that it is necessary to have free will in order to deserve Heaven or hell?
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Interesting question. We are born with original sin. Baptism removes all sin. If a child (or mentally incompetent person) is Baptized, never reaches the mystical age of reason (or is mentally incompetent), and dies, does he or she go to heaven? Well Scripture says yes.
Once he or she reaches the age of reason, if he or she turns away from God, they would in fact lose their salvation.
In that case it is necessary to have free will in order to lose salvation.
If the child dies prior to Baptism we trust in the mercy of God. Since He tells us not to hinder the children from coming to Him, I’ll go out on a limb and believe they go to heaven. This of course is my faith, not Church teaching.
 
Ok. It looks like free will is not necessary for salvation but definately necessary in order to lose salvation. Free will is generally considered a “gift” from God. Yet, it is this gift which will allow the majority of us to be damned. Knowing the odds, I wonder how many of us would willingly give this gift back in return for a higher assurance of salvation?
 
expectthebest said:
Would anyone argue that an infant or say a fertilized human egg does not have the ability to reason and therefore have free will?
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Having raised 6 children I will argue that an infant has the ability to reason even if at a very immature level. I believe that this occurs on or before the point at which they become self-aware.

Obviously, for the fertilized egg prior to developing a brain, it does not have the physical equipment to facilate the operation of the intellect. I don’t, however, believe that the intellect is absent.
 
expectthebest said:
Ok. It looks like free will is not necessary for salvation but definately necessary in order to lose salvation. Free will is generally considered a “gift” from God. Yet, it is this gift which will allow the majority of us to be damned. Knowing the odds, I wonder how many of us would willingly give this gift back in return for a higher assurance of salvation?
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I have wondered questions similar to this. I sometimes wonder if free-will wasn’t the result of the fall instead of the cause of the fall. I don’t think free-will is all it’s cracked up to be.

I think there’s the danger of exaggerating the value of our free-will beyond what is historically accepted within the frameworks of Catholic theology. The modern emphasis on our free-will seems to be more man-centered than God-centered in my opinion.
 
Camron said:
I have wondered questions similar to this. I sometimes wonder if free-will wasn’t the result of the fall instead of the cause of the fall. I don’t think free-will is all it’s cracked up to be.

I think there’s the danger of exaggerating the value of our free-will beyond what is historically accepted within the frameworks of Catholic theology. The modern emphasis on our free-will seems to be more man-centered than God-centered in my opinion.
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To me it seems that free will is the entire center and foundation of Catholic teaching on who is saved and who is not saved. We are taught that we are not sent to hell but we choose hell. Similarly, we choose Heaven. In fact, we may even be Baptised by our free will (Baptism of desire) which makes free will the most important foundation of each person working out their salvation. Am I wrong?
 
expectthebest said:
Would anyone argue that an infant or say a fertilized human egg does not have the ability to reason and therefore have free will?
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davidv said:
Having raised 6 children I will argue that an infant has the ability to reason even if at a very immature level. I believe that this occurs on or before the point at which they become self-aware.

Obviously, for the fertilized egg prior to developing a brain, it does not have the physical equipment to facilate the operation of the intellect. I don’t, however, believe that the intellect is absent.
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Perhaps we should define free will?
To me it is more than simple reasoning or intellect, although it requires reasoning and intellect. It is the ability to choose good from evil. An infant possesses intellect and reason to decide to open his eyes or keep them closed, however this is not, in MHO a demonstration of free will. Free will requires sufficient intellect to distinguish good from evil, and to act with that knowledge of good and evil. I choose to eat a hamburger for lunch, no “free will” required since there is no choice between good or evil. I choose to eat a hamburger for lunch knowing it is a Friday during lent, and meat is not allowed to be eaten, I understand it is wrong, but decide to do it anyway, there is free will, to disobey, with knowledge and understanding. A child or mentally incompetent person would have limited knowledge or understanding of the choice.

From the CCC:
1704 The human person participates in the light and power of the divine Spirit. By his reason, he is capable of understanding the order of things established by the Creator. By free will, he is capable of directing himself toward his true good. He finds his perfection "in seeking and loving what is true and good."7
1705 By virtue of his soul and his spiritual powers of intellect and will, man is endowed with freedom, an "outstanding manifestation of the divine image."8
1706 By his reason, man recognizes the voice of God which urges him "to do what is good and avoid what is evil."9 Everyone is obliged to follow this law, which makes itself heard in conscience and is fulfilled in the love of God and of neighbor. Living a moral life bears witness to the dignity of the person.
1707 "Man, enticed by the Evil One, abused his freedom at the very beginning of history."10 He succumbed to temptation and did what was evil. He still desires the good, but his nature bears the wound of original sin. He is now inclined to evil and subject to error:Man is divided in himself. As a result, the whole life of men, both individual and social, shows itself to be a struggle, and a dramatic one, between good and evil, between light and darkness.11
1711 Endowed with a spiritual soul, with intellect and with free will, the human person is from his very conception ordered to God and destined for eternal beatitude. He pursues his perfection in “seeking and loving what is true and good” (GS 15 § 2).
1713 Man is obliged to follow the moral law, which urges him “to do what is good and avoid what is evil” (cf. GS 16). This law makes itself heard in his conscience.
1715 He who believes in Christ has new life in the Holy Spirit. The moral life, increased and brought to maturity in grace, is to reach its fulfillment in the glory of heaven.

Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude.
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The CCC also says:
PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST
SECTION ONE
MAN’S VOCATION LIFE IN THE SPIRIT
CHAPTER ONE
THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON
ARTICLE 3
MAN’S FREEDOM
1730 God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. "God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him."26 Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.27
1732 As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in perfection or of failing and sinning. This freedom characterizes properly human acts. It is the basis of praise or blame, merit or reproach.
1733 The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. There is no true freedom except in the service of what is good and just. The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to "the slavery of sin."28
1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts.
1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors.
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What I have learned here is that free will is necessary for damnation but not for salvation. I think that has become clear. As such, free will is really a curse, is it not? For, without free will, we would not have the potential for damnation. Correct?
 
expectthebest said:
What I have learned here is that free will is necessary for damnation but not for salvation. I think that has become clear. As such, free will is really a curse, is it not? For, without free will, we would not have the potential for damnation. Correct?
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No, that is not correct.

I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion. I certainly cannot come to that conclusion given that information I have seen and heard.
 
Yesterday, 10:00 am
Tom
Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2,235

Re: Free Will Necessary?
Quote:
Originally Posted by expectthebest
Is it the teaching of the Church that it is necessary to have free will in order to deserve Heaven or hell?
Interesting question. We are born with original sin. Baptism removes all sin. If a child (or mentally incompetent person) is Baptized, never reaches the mystical age of reason (or is mentally incompetent), and dies, does he or she go to heaven? Well Scripture says yes.
Once he or she reaches the age of reason, if he or she turns away from God, they would in fact lose their salvation.
In that case it is necessary to have free will in order to lose salvation.
If the child dies prior to Baptism we trust in the mercy of God. Since He tells us not to hinder the children from coming to Him, I’ll go out on a limb and believe they go to heaven. This of course is my faith, not Church teaching.
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I was going off of this statement from a previous post in the thread. If I am wrong, please tell my why.
 
expectthebest said:
Yesterday, 10:00 am
Tom
Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2,235

Re: Free Will Necessary?
Quote:
Originally Posted by expectthebest
Is it the teaching of the Church that it is necessary to have free will in order to deserve Heaven or hell?

I was going off of this statement from a previous post in the thread. If I am wrong, please tell my why.
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I believe the teaching of the church is that free will is necessary to be considered human.

Our will is one of the necessary attributes that defines us as human. Our will directs our choices. Whether we end up saved or condemned is completely dependent on our choices.

From the CCC:
1700 The dignity of the human person is rooted in his creation in the image and likeness of God (article 1); it is fulfilled in his vocation to divine beatitude (article 2). It is essential to a human being freely to direct himself to this fulfillment (article 3). By his deliberate actions (article 4), the human person does, or does not, conform to the good promised by God and attested by moral conscience (article 5). Human beings make their own contribution to their interior growth; they make their whole sentient and spiritual lives into means of this growth (article 6). With the help of grace they grow in virtue (article 7), avoid sin, and if they sin they entrust themselves as did the prodigal son1 to the mercy of our Father in heaven (article 8). In this way they attain to the perfection of charity.
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