Free Will Necessary?

[Tom]

As Davidv pointed out, our free will is one thing that differentiates us from all other animals. All animals have souls, any animal can love and hate. Only humans have souls which are eternal. We understand our life on this earth is only a beginning.
An animal without free will does not choose good from evil, it acts according to what it has learned. We as humans are the only species that have a full understanding of good and evil.
An animal may kill for food or protection, that is not intrinsically evil, it is what comes naturally and what it has learned, man on the other hand often kills for pleasure.
To say free will is a curse is not accurate, free will is the greatest gift God has given us.

 

[expectthebest]

I believe the teaching of the church is that free will is necessary to be considered human.

Our will is one of the necessary attributes that defines us as human. Our will directs our choices. Whether we end up saved or condemned is completely dependent on our choices.

From the CCC:

Do you maintain that a fertilized egg, while fully human, has free will?

 

[expectthebest]

As Davidv pointed out, our free will is one thing that differentiates us from all other animals. All animals have souls, any animal can love and hate. Only humans have souls which are eternal. We understand our life on this earth is only a beginning.
An animal without free will does not choose good from evil, it acts according to what it has learned. We as humans are the only species that have a full understanding of good and evil.
An animal may kill for food or protection, that is not intrinsically evil, it is what comes naturally and what it has learned, man on the other hand often kills for pleasure.
To say free will is a curse is not accurate, free will is the greatest gift God has given us.

If it is our free will which allows damnation, and most of us will be damned, is it really worth the chance? What kind of gift is that? I would give up my free will in a second for an assurance of Heaven. Wouldn’t you?

 

[Saint2B]

Interesting question. Of course, free will, like the Trinity, is not explicitly stated in scripture, unless I missed a reference to it?

Will and intelligence are capabilities of the soul, along with the capacity for love. These exist from conception, imho.

Free will is important to the Catholic idea of salvation for a soul. The person is offered grace for salvation, and must choose to respond to it in love of God and neighbor (by Faith and through obedience to God’s, expressed in works).

But free will would not get you into heaven by itself. You need action, too, right? I mean, you could freely decide you love God, but not act to love Him and lose heaven, right? God’s will and action are the same event, but we have the problem where they are separate, and you need both to love.

 

[expectthebest]

Interesting question. Of course, free will, like the Trinity, is not explicitly stated in scripture, unless I missed a reference to it?

Will and intelligence are capabilities of the soul, along with the capacity for love. These exist from conception, imho.

Free will is important to the Catholic idea of salvation for a soul. The person is offered grace for salvation, and must choose to respond to it in love of God and neighbor (by Faith and through obedience to God’s, expressed in works).

But free will would not get you into heaven by itself. You need action, too, right? I mean, you could freely decide you love God, but not act to love Him and lose heaven, right? God’s will and action are the same event, but we have the problem where they are separate, and you need both to love.

Same question. Do you maintain that a fertilized egg, while fully human, has free will?

 

[Tom]

If it is our free will which allows damnation, and most of us will be damned, is it really worth the chance? What kind of gift is that? I would give up my free will in a second for an assurance of Heaven. Wouldn’t you?

Without free will there is no heaven nor hell. When an animal dies his soul dies also. I want to live with God for eternity, is free will worth it? OF COURSE!!!
BTW, no a fertilized egg would not be able to utilize free will. It cannot do “evil” all it can do is natural.

 

[Saint2B]

Same question. Do you maintain that a fertilized egg, while fully human, has free will?

I dunno. It could reflect its creator’s grace, just for being in existence. I suppose a follow up is – do you need a mind to exercise free-will? Or, will your soul do?

 

[Saint2B]

Ah,is there also a difference between having free will and being able to exercise it? Can you, for example, only exercise free will once you have a mind?

 

[davidv]

Do you maintain that a fertilized egg, while fully human, has free will?

Yes.

However, it has very little capacity to exercise this will as it is severely limited by the lack of development of its physical body.

 

[davidv]

If it is our free will which allows damnation, and most of us will be damned,

On what basis do you know this?

is it really worth the chance?

Without this chance I would not experience true joy and happiness.

What kind of gift is that?

One freely given.

I would give up my free will in a second for an assurance of Heaven. Wouldn’t you?

I don’t believe this is a valid question as they are inseparable.

 

[expectthebest]

Without free will there is no heaven nor hell. When an animal dies his soul dies also. I want to live with God for eternity, is free will worth it? OF COURSE!!!
BTW, no a fertilized egg would not be able to utilize free will. It cannot do “evil” all it can do is natural.

Well, if a fertilized egg cannot utilize free will and we may still hope for the posibility of salvation for that young human, why couldn’t the rest of us also have salvation without the ability to utilize free will?

 

[expectthebest]

I dunno. It could reflect its creator’s grace, just for being in existence. I suppose a follow up is – do you need a mind to exercise free-will? Or, will your soul do?

Great question!

 

[expectthebest]

Yes.

However, it has very little capacity to exercise this will as it is severely limited by the lack of development of its physical body.

Please define the capacity.

 

[davidv]

Please define the capacity.

This definition from Webster’s Unabrided @ dictionary.com, is the closest to the meaning I intended in this context.

1. The power of receiving and holding ideas, knowledge, etc.; the comprehensiveness of the mind; the receptive faculty; capability of undestanding or feeling.

 

[Tom]

Well, if a fertilized egg cannot utilize free will and we may still hope for the posibility of salvation for that young human, why couldn’t the rest of us also have salvation without the ability to utilize free will?

Now you’re just arguing for argument sake.
Jesus teaches that if we even think about adultery with a woman we have in fact committed adultery with her. So just the thought of a sin is an exercise of our free will. So, can you live your life without thought? Perhaps you can, the rest of us cannot.

 

[Camron]

To me it seems that free will is the entire center and foundation of Catholic teaching on who is saved and who is not saved. We are taught that we are not sent to hell but we choose hell. Similarly, we choose Heaven. In fact, we may even be Baptised by our free will (Baptism of desire) which makes free will the most important foundation of each person working out their salvation. Am I wrong?

And yet many infants are baptised (and saved) without their consenting free-will (for all we know). This alone shifts the foundation of Catholic teaching away from the will of the person being saved to the person doing the saving.

Free-will is important. But it is not the central teaching that many make it out to be IMHO.