Free Will or Predestination?

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I am in a class that has spent some time studying free will vs. predestination. All the other kids were originally Free Will Baptists, and the teacher has had everyone read Calvin and Augustine to get an idea of what the other side is like.

So, do you believe in free will or predestination? Why? What is the Catholic church’s stance on this?

God bless you,
Grace
 
This has been my latest research topic. The Catechism says, "600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.“395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396”

I take a Thomistic view (so I’ve been told). When we die, you could think of it as going through a gate. The non-Christians go through the gate and there is a sign on the back of it saying, “you chose this.” The Christian will go through Jesus (ie, the gate). The sign on the back of this Jesus-gate says, “I chose you.” Basically, God chooses us for salvation, and we choose damnation for ourselves because God does not do that.
 
Also, Fr Garrigou-Lagrange wrote on this subject, so I would look into him. And the quote from the Catechism is the official position of the Church, but there are other soteriological systems that are acceptable teachings (ie, Molinism).
 
Leibniz

I’m reading the Discourse on Metsphysics and the Theodicy right now. You should too! Once I understand him, I’ll give you an answer.
 
I wrote this blog post a little bit ago with many references to Church documents: What does the Catholic Church teach on predestination? :o

And not 30 minutes ago, I read the following tidy summary in Pope Benedict’s Jesus of Nazareth: The Infancy Narratives, page 76:*Two extreme positions are possible: firstly, the idea of the absolutely exclusive action of God, in which everything depends on his predestination. At the other extreme, there is a moralizing position, according to which everything is ultimately decided through the good will of the human person. The older translation—men “of good will”—could be misconstrued in this direction. The new translation can be misinterpreted in the opposite direction, as if everything depended uniquely on God’s predestination. The overall testimony of sacred Scripture demonstrates beyond doubt that neither of the two extreme positions is correct. Grace and freedom are thoroughly interwoven, and we cannot unravel their interrelatedness into clear formulae. … God’s grace always precedes us, embraces us and carries us. But it also remains true that man is called to love in return, he does not remain an unwilling tool of God’s omnipotence: he can love in return or he can refuse God’s love.*You notice the Pope’s mention of grace that “precedes” us at the end of this quote - this is in reference to “prevenient” or “preceding” grace that you see in other Church documents in the above linked blog post. Grace capacitates will and neither violates the other - this is a mystery of predestination.
 
The Catholic position is that we have FREE WILL**.** God may KNOW what choices we make,
and YES God knows where we are going to go**,** BUT that does NOT mean that God has pre-
destined each of us on where we will go**.** Free will is actually one of the qualities given to us
when God made Man in His own image,after His own likeness. God did not create manikins
of Himself then decided which would go into the trash and which will not.

Two recommended videos: 1: Lies My NASB Told Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6dvPGgPAyo
2: Lies My NASB Told Me
youtube.com/watch?v=c41InKBfT30
 
About predestination, read Ephesians chapter one (specifically v 4, “just as He chose us in Christ before the foundation of he world…”). This is a Calvinist argument, but one I find true. Hence my beliefs on the matter in question.
 
AngloCath4 said:
About predestination, read Ephesians chapter one (specifically v 4, “just as He chose us in Christ before the foundation of he world…”). This is a Calvinist argument, but one I find true. Hence my beliefs on the matter in question.
Click to expand...
Calvinists do not have custody of Ephesians 1:4. That is a very “Catholic” passage, just so you know. :o
 
Exactly! That’s my point, that predestination is an acceptable Catholic stance, it comes from Holy Scripture, and it just so happens that Calvinists use this same verse/chapter/logic when defending their theology. 🙂
 
Do a Google search for “Tiptoe through TULIP James Akin.” Here is something from that website:

“All Thomists and even some Molinists (such as Robert Bellarmine and Francisco Suarez) taught unconditional election.” ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/TULIP.htm

I will leave it up to you to look up Unconditional Election.
 
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