Free will troubles, with invincible ignorance problems

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fakename

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A free will question:

I once heard that choosing evil makes the will less free -a slave to sin. But if that is true, then how could there be sins that are freely chosen? According to my above idea, if you choose evil, then you are unfree but to freely choose a sin is to choose evil and in that case you both freely choose evil and unfreely choose evil -a contradiction. I think the answer is in saying that you were previously free but are now unfree, or something?

And the invincible ignorance problem too -I heard that if you could learn catholic doctrine, then you are not invincibly ignorant. But what does “could” mean? For instance if someone was a diehard atheist learning about God would occasion a bad feeling which would dissuade the will from pursuing God -a venial offence since it was caused by bad feelings. Yet because the atheist lived with internet access, then he could’ve learned about Christianity but didn’t so he is not in invincible ignorance and therefore is in mortal sin with regard to his actions. Ways to get around these conundrums?
 
fakename said:
A free will question:

I once heard that choosing evil makes the will less free -a slave to sin. But if that is true, then how could there be sins that are freely chosen? According to my above idea, if you choose evil, then you are unfree but to freely choose a sin is to choose evil and in that case you both freely choose evil and unfreely choose evil -a contradiction. I think the answer is in saying that you were previously free but are now unfree, or something?

Not quite. “Slave to sin” doesn’t mean the loss of free will. It’s an imperfect metaphor.

And the invincible ignorance problem too -I heard that if you could learn catholic doctrine, then you are not invincibly ignorant. But what does “could” mean? For instance if someone was a diehard atheist learning about God would occasion a bad feeling which would dissuade the will from pursuing God -a venial offence since it was caused by bad feelings. Yet because the atheist lived with internet access, then he could’ve learned about Christianity but didn’t so he is not in invincible ignorance and therefore is in mortal sin with regard to his actions. Ways to get around these conundrums?

Invincible ignorance is INVINCIBLE, i.e. not able to be overcome. In your athiest example, simply learning about God does not necessarily make the person culpable for their non-belief. Their deeply held (non)belief could cause them to reject the knowledge of what we know about God as simply fiction or fantasy (which is the case many times with true athiests).

There is another dimention to invincible ignorance besides pure knowledge. Even Christians can read and study about the Almighty but fail to understand and know him, if their hearts are closed. Of course the argument goes that how can they be called Christians if they don’t know the Lord, but that is a different subject.
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Have you any experience with compulsive behaviors you can no longer control or addictive behaviors? (anger, unforgiveness, selfishness, hopelessness, food, shopping, gambling, porn, alcohol, sex, drug use and abuse, etc).

Twelve Step Recovery

•Step 1 - We admitted we were powerless over our addiction - that our lives had become unmanageable
•Step 2 - Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity
•Step 3 - Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood God
•Step 4 - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves
•Step 5 - Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs
•Step 6 - Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character
•Step 7 - Humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings
•Step 8 - Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all
•Step 9 - Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others
•Step 10 - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it
•Step 11 - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood God, praying only for knowledge of God’s will for us and the power to carry that out
•Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to other addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs
 
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a7.htm

Cathechism of the Catholic Church

"SECTION ONE
MAN’S VOCATION LIFE IN THE SPIRIT

CHAPTER ONE
THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON

ARTICLE 7
THE VIRTUES

1803 “Whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.” Phil 4:8.

A virtue is an habitual and firm disposition to do the good. It allows the person not only to perform good acts, but to give the best of himself. The virtuous person tends toward the good with all his sensory and spiritual powers; he pursues the good and chooses it in concrete actions.

“The goal of a virtuous life is to become like God.” (St. Gregory of Nyssa, De beatitudinibus, 1:PG 44,1200D)

I. THE HUMAN VIRTUES

1804 Human virtues are firm attitudes, stable dispositions, habitual perfections of intellect and will that govern our actions, order our passions, and guide our conduct according to reason and faith. They make possible ease, self-mastery, and joy in leading a morally good life. The virtuous man is he who freely practices the good.

The moral virtues are acquired by human effort. They are the fruit and seed of morally good acts; they dispose all the powers of the human being for communion with divine love.

The cardinal virtues …"
 
catholicfidelity.com/compendium-of-the-catechism-of-the-catholic-church-part-4/

Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church

MAN’S FREEDOM
  1. What is freedom?
1730-1733 1743-1744

Freedom is the power given by God to act or not to act, to do this or to do that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. Freedom characterizes properly human acts. The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes. Freedom attains its proper perfection when it is directed toward God, the highest good and our beatitude. Freedom implies also the possibility of choosing between good and evil. The choice of evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to the slavery of sin.
  1. What is the relationship between freedom and responsibility?
1734-1737 1745-1746

Freedom makes people responsible for their actions to the extent that they are voluntary, even if the imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or sometimes cancelled by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, inordinate attachments, or habit.
  1. Why does everyone have a right to exercise freedom?
1738 1747

The right to the exercise of freedom belongs to everyone because it is inseparable from his or her dignity as a human person. Therefore this right must always be respected, especially in moral and religious matters, and it must be recognized and protected by civil authority within the limits of the common good and a just public order.
  1. What place does human freedom have in the plan of salvation?
1739-1742 1748

Our freedom is weakened because of original sin. This weakness is intensified because of successive sins. Christ, however, set us free “so that we should remain free” (Galatians 5:1). With his grace, the Holy Spirit leads us to spiritual freedom to make us free co-workers with him in the Church and in the world.
  1. What are the sources of the morality of human acts?
1749-1754 1757-1758

The morality of human acts depends on three sources: the object chosen, either a true or apparent good; the intention of the subject who acts, that is, the purpose for which the subject performs the act; and the circumstances of the act, which include its consequences.
  1. When is an act morally good?
1755-1756 1759-1760

An act is morally good when it assumes simultaneously the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances. A chosen object can by itself vitiate an act in its entirety, even if the intention is good. It is not licit to do evil so that good may result from it. An evil end corrupts the action, even if the object is good in itself. On the other hand, a good end does not make an act good if the object of that act is evil, since the end does not justify the means. Circumstances can increase or diminish the responsibility of the one who is acting but they cannot change the moral quality of the acts themselves. They never make good an act which is in itself evil.
  1. Are there acts which are always illicit?
1756 1761

There are some acts which, in and of themselves, are always illicit by reason of their object (for example, blasphemy, homicide, adultery). Choosing such acts entails a disorder of the will, that is, a moral evil which can never be justified by appealing to the good effects which could possibly result from them.
 
THE MORALITY OF THE PASSIONS
  1. What are the passions?
1762-1766 1771-1772

The passions are the feelings, the emotions or the movements of the sensible appetite - natural components of human psychology - which incline a person to act or not to act in view of what is perceived as good or evil. The principal passions are love and hatred, desire and fear, joy, sadness, and anger. The chief passion is love which is drawn by the attraction of the good. One can only love what is good, real or apparent.
  1. Are the passions morally good or bad?
1767-1770 1773-1775

The passions insofar as they are movements of the sensible appetite are neither good nor bad in themselves. They are good when they contribute to a good action and they are evil in the opposite case. They can be taken up into the virtues or perverted by the vices.

THE MORAL CONSCIENCE
  1. What is the moral conscience?
1776-1780 1795-1797

Moral conscience, present in the heart of the person, is a judgment of reason which at the appropriate moment enjoins him to do good and to avoid evil. Thanks to moral conscience, the human person perceives the moral quality of an act to be done or which has already been done, permitting him to assume responsibility for the act. When attentive to moral conscience, the prudent person can hear the voice of God who speaks to him or her.
  1. What does the dignity of the human person imply for the moral conscience?
1780-1782 1798

The dignity of a human person requires the uprightness of a moral conscience (which is to say that it be in accord with what is just and good according to reason and the law of God). Because of this personal dignity, no one may be forced to act contrary to conscience; nor, within the limits of the common good, be prevented from acting according to it, especially in religious matters.
  1. How is a moral conscience formed to be upright and truthful?
1783-1788 1799-1800

An upright and true moral conscience is formed by education and by assimilating the Word of God and the teaching of the Church. It is supported by the gifts of the Holy Spirit and helped by the advice of wise people. Prayer and an examination of conscience can also greatly assist one’s moral formation.
  1. What norms must conscience always follow?
1789

There are three general norms: 1) one may never do evil so that good may result from it; 2) the so-called Golden Rule, “Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them” (Matthew 7:12); 3) charity always proceeds by way of respect for one’s neighbor and his conscience, even though this does not mean accepting as good something that is objectively evil.
  1. Can a moral conscience make erroneous judgments?
1790-1794 1801-1802

A person must always obey the certain judgment of his own conscience but he could make erroneous judgments for reasons that may not always exempt him from personal guilt. However, an evil act committed through involuntary ignorance is not imputable to the person, even though the act remains objectively evil. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.

THE VIRTUES
  1. What is a virtue?
1803 1833

A virtue is an habitual and firm disposition to do the good. “The goal of a virtuous life is to become like God” (Saint Gregory of Nyssa). There are human virtues and theological virtues.
  1. What are the human virtues?
1804 1810-1811 1834 1839

The human virtues are habitual and stable perfections of the intellect and will that govern our actions, order our passions and guide our conduct according to reason and faith. They are acquired and strengthened by the repetition of morally good acts and they are purified and elevated by divine grace.
  1. What are the principal human virtues?
1805 1834

The principal human virtues are called the cardinal virtues, under which all the other virtues are grouped and which are the hinges of a virtuous life. The cardinal virtues are: prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance.
 
Jesus,our Lords peace be with You.
Sorry for my bad english,dear friend,whenever I don’t know what is right or wrong,I have three things I use,The Holy Bible,The Cateshism and praying. Works every time.
 
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Newbie2:
I’m still not getting it 😦 sorry,

because I thought that the essence of free will was to choose good so that if you chose evil, then the essence would be corrupted.

Obviously there is more to it than this but I heard it was the correct position of St. Augustine and yet, although people continue to say that the free-est will is that which chooses good, that the perfection of the will lays in choosing good, and that the free man is the virtuous man, still I here it said that free will is also the faculty of choosing regardless if the choice is bad or not. So which is it for crying out loud…😦 ? Is free will simply choosing per se, or is it choosing only good?
 
Free will allows us to choose good or bad.

Maybe a way to explain it is to say that choosing good is more ‘freeing’ than choosing evil.
 
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