Free will Vs Papal Infalibility

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AndyP

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Hi

I posted this in Ask an Apologist, but didn’t get an answer, I wonder if there is anyone can help.

My son, who is 18 and has just done a two year philosophy course, has just stumped me. This is the gist of his argument.

God gives all of us free will. The doctrine of Papal infallibility means that The Pope is prevented from making an error regarding faith and morals. How are these two principals compatible?

This come off the back of a discussion where I explained that just because God knows what we are going to do (since He is omnipresent), this does not mean that free will is compromised.

Thanks.
 
Even without wills weakened by the fall, the degree of freedom we have is only relative. We are radically, significantly free, free enough in any case to be responsible for our actions, but ultimately in God “we live, and move, and have our being”. He’s the Potter, we’re the clay, especially as we’re willing.

If God doesn’t “work on our wills”, if He doesn’t influence them or override them by His grace, even if only to a tiny degree, then we won’t change. And* change*, not merely salvation, is what He’s after; change is how He justifies us for salvation. That’s what it means to say that God alone saves us. So yes, He acts on our wills-He draws, molds, educates them, so to speak.
 
I know what Philosophy Courses are like in the UK; particularily in colleges…

Don’t worry however; I am certain we will be able to provide ample answers to these objections; after all. The truth will out.

I shall begin by stating that the Pope is infallible only through the operation of the Holy Spirit in him; so whilst the Pope as a human has the free will to do; or think evil - he will be unable to contract an infallible statement that is untrue;- as the Holy Spirit must work through his declaration for it to be infallible. Thus; there is no contrarity contracted by the operation of Papal Volition (free will of Pope) and the Operation of the Holy Spirit.

So; the Pope is free to believe what he wants; but is unable to freely declare a false thing infallible; because whilst he can freely declare a heresy; he cannot declare a heresy infallibly because he cannot declare infallibly without the Holy Spirit.

There have been popes who have been heretics; a clear example was Pope Honorius I, who was a follower of the Heresy of Monothelitism. Not everything a Pope says is infallible; it is only when a Pope Speaks Ex Cathedera that the truest sense of “Papal Infallibility” is applied; however - teachings of the Magisterium are also regarded as infallible on moral or theological issues.

There have only ever been Seven (Ex Cathedera) Infallible Declarations in two thousand years: The Immaculate Conception; The Assumption; The beatific vision of the just; The two wills of Christ; The two natures in Christ; The Condemnation of Jansen; the Condemnation of Jansenism. This bears testemant to the fact that Ex Cathedera (from the Chair of Peter) declarations are not used often.

I would reccomend a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church; if you do not already possess one; as it is basically the “rulebook” of Catholic teaching; and contains all major declarations and teachings of the Church; many of which are declared infallible either through the Magisterium or the Pope.

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums (CAF); if you have any more questions feel free to post them!

If your son is interested in Catholic Philosophy I can reccomend a few (or more than a few) good books on the subject depending upon what areas of Philosophy he is interested in (Ethics, Ontology etc.) if you are interested.
 
Hi

I posted this in Ask an Apologist, but didn’t get an answer, I wonder if there is anyone can help.

My son, who is 18 and has just done a two year philosophy course, has just stumped me. This is the gist of his argument.

God gives all of us free will. The doctrine of Papal infallibility means that The Pope is prevented from making an error regarding faith and morals. How are these two principals compatible?

This come off the back of a discussion where I explained that just because God knows what we are going to do (since He is omnipresent), this does not mean that free will is compromised.

Thanks.
God is Infinite. He is also Infinite in Immensity. He comprises everything with Himself, and all at the precise same Moment. Therefore, He is Omnipresent. Therefore, He knows in advance of us what’s going to happen to each of us. However, it is the Church’s stance that Calvinistic pre-destination (pre-determination) is not the case with God. It is the Catholic belief that God wants all of us in Heaven. And, He could have done that, but, instead, He gave us Free Wills.

Knowing as He might that Free Wills would land us all in hell, He further gave us the necessary Graces to allow us to change our personal destinations. He knows who’s going where, but, He is not the efficient or final causes of our own choices and actions. He does not cause our destinies. We cause our own destinies. Much to His chagrin, I’m sure - since He Loves the sinner the most.

Knowing something and causing something are two completely different exigencies. It is the best possible scenario in order so that we were not made to be automatons. It allows us to freely Love.

God bless,
jd
 
Hi

I posted this in Ask an Apologist, but didn’t get an answer, I wonder if there is anyone can help.

My son, who is 18 and has just done a two year philosophy course, has just stumped me. This is the gist of his argument.

God gives all of us free will. The doctrine of Papal infallibility means that The Pope is prevented from making an error regarding faith and morals. How are these two principals compatible?

This come off the back of a discussion where I explained that just because God knows what we are going to do (since He is omnipresent), this does not mean that free will is compromised.

Thanks.
Papal infallibility doesn’t mean the “Pope is prevented” from anything. It means the Church is protected from errors being made by the Pope. The Pope is not personally impeccable. He uses free will all the time.

Also, free will does not mean that anyone is ominipotent. Free will is constrained by conditions, other people and previous choices. In the case of the Pope, one of those constraints is the protection of the Holy Spirit.
 
Hi

I posted this in Ask an Apologist, but didn’t get an answer, I wonder if there is anyone can help.

My son, who is 18 and has just done a two year philosophy course, has just stumped me. This is the gist of his argument.

God gives all of us free will. The doctrine of Papal infallibility means that The Pope is prevented from making an error regarding faith and morals. How are these two principals compatible?

This come off the back of a discussion where I explained that just because God knows what we are going to do (since He is omnipresent), this does not mean that free will is compromised.

Thanks.
Hey, AndyP. 🙂

It is one thing to have a free will and make free will decisions. It is quite another to carry out the actions decided by our free will. For example. I may freely chose to make a million dollars on the free market. However, choosing to do so and being able to do so are not the same thing. God can prevent me from making a million dollars on the free market if He so chooses. Perhaps He knows if I make a million dollars I’ll abandon my faith and morals for evil things.

That being said, you may want to listen to Dr. Peter Kreeft, who teaches Philosophy at Boston College. He has some interesting things to say about free will, etc.:

alabamacatholicresources.com/Downloads/peter-kreeft_fated-free.mp3

Here are the rest of his talks:

alabamacatholicresources.com/dr_peter_kreeft.html

God bless! 🙂
 
Hi

I posted this in Ask an Apologist, but didn’t get an answer, I wonder if there is anyone can help.

My son, who is 18 and has just done a two year philosophy course, has just stumped me. This is the gist of his argument.

God gives all of us free will. The doctrine of Papal infallibility means that The Pope is prevented from making an error regarding faith and morals. How are these two principals compatible?

Thanks.
This is not an easy thing to explain and would be a good subject for a book.

The problem that faces most people with issues such as these is that they see things purely in black and white and forget the contextual shades of grey in-between. Context is a word I am continuously pushing in my debates on this forum because it solves allot of the problems that people suspect to be intractable.

1. First of all, a thing isn’t good merely because we say its good. What makes a thing good is the greatest overall good, or the goal to which the will is in act. The ultimate end or purpose for which we exist is what defines whether or not our actions are in agreement with what is good.

2. That which is good in one context can sometimes be evil in another context. For example, if a person sticks a syringe in somebodies arm for no reason while they are asleep, this is wrong. But if a person sticks a syringe in the arm of somebody in order to treat or save the life of an unconscious patient, no wrong has been done. The context has change the moral nature of the human act.

3. The applicability of freewill is dependent on the context in which an action is made. Take for instance, when a man or a women is trying to kill you, in that context you are allowed to reduce that persons freedom by putting that person in prison, and this is because the good of your safety in this particular context is greater than the freedom of the offender because the offenders freedom is no longer “good” since it is working against the “greater good” of your safety and dignity as a living person. However; in the greater context of God and the spiritual salvation of creation, it is good for God to permit evil since it is in the fundamental nature of love that humanity ought to have the dignity of freely choosing their salvation. This is because slavery in its ultimate sense is not love. In this context, Love has to be freely accepted or otherwise it ceases to be love. Notice again how context can greatly change the nature of free actions. In one context a particular kind of freedom was no-longer good; but in another context the freedom of human beings is absolutely vital to the dignity of human beings.

4. A contingent being does not exist of its own accord, and neither does it have any rights of its own accord. A contingent being receives its power of act, its moral dignity, and is sustained in existence, through the power of that which is necessarily real. The only being that has to exist, has any right to exist, and has the power to exist, is God. Everything else exists through the power of God and receives the good of its being from God. In other words, we do not generate our own reality, but rather God generates and sustains the reality in which we make our free actions.

5. Just like humanity has the right to defend itself against attackers, God also has the right to defend that which God wills, and what God will is our salvation. In the context of salvation, it is necessary that the truth of this salvation and everything that is required for its actuality is revealed to man without error.

6. When a man becomes a Pope, he is “freely” taking on the duty and vocation of guarding the truth of Gods salvation and has “recognised” that this truth can only be delivered without error through the power of the Holy spirit. Thus the Pope in “freely accepting” and becoming the Pope also understands that when he speaks ex-cathedra he is giving up his freedom for the “greater good” of humanities salvation to the holy spirit, so that the truths that are required for humanities salvation are communicated without human error. The Pope has chosen to be an infallible vessel of Gods truth in that circumstance, and the only way that can be achieved is by overriding the imperfect nature of the Pope and speaking through the vessel that is the Pope. Notice that in this context human freedom again is in fact an enemy of the “greater good”, and thus the overriding of that freedom in this particular context is to override “human imperfection and evil” and is not to undermine the good. Notice also that to become a Pope is freely choose to become a vessel of God. In general Christians are asked to give up their freedom to God. This is to say that were are commanded to submit to Gods infallible will.

I hope this helps. I am not an expect on theology; but this seems to me to be correct because now that we have the faith and the “greater good” in its proper “context” it completely removes the so called “contradiction”.
 
I apologise for any missing words or grammatical errors. If there is any sentence that you don’t quite understand as a result of missing words, please quote the passage and I will clarify what I intended to say.

Peace and God bless.
 
God is Infinite. He is also Infinite in Immensity. He comprises everything with Himself, and all at the precise same Moment. Therefore, He is Omnipresent. Therefore, He knows in advance of us what’s going to happen to each of us. However, it is the Church’s stance that Calvinistic pre-destination (pre-determination) is not the case with God. It is the Catholic belief that God wants all of us in Heaven. And, He could have done that, but, instead, He gave us Free Wills.

Knowing as He might that Free Wills would land us all in hell, He further gave us the necessary Graces to allow us to change our personal destinations. He knows who’s going where, but, He is not the efficient or final causes of our own choices and actions.
My apologies, but, I failed to read my own writing very well and subsequently just spotted an error.

God is the Final Cause of our desires when it comes to Heaven. What I merely meant was that He does not predetermine where we’re to go, and then walk off and ignore what happens. He places Graces before us and directs us to them.
 
Thanks people, some great replies here. I will get my son to look in at these.

Thanks again.🙂
 
Papal infallibility doesn’t mean the “Pope is prevented” from anything.
Not correct.
It means the Church is protected from errors being made by the Pope.
:confused: But it’s called PAPAL infallibility for a reason.
The Pope is not personally impeccable. He uses free will all the time.
True, but irrelevant. Impeccable and infallible are logically independent categories. The *only *way to be impeccable is to be *personally *impeccable, and of course the Pope, as such, is not. He *is *personally infallible (under certain restricted conditions).
Also, free will does not mean that anyone is ominipotent. Free will is constrained by conditions, other people and previous choices. In the case of the Pope, one of those constraints is the protection of the Holy Spirit.
Right, the protection of the HS, by which he is personally prevented from teaching error (under certain conditions).
 
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