Free Will

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Stouts989

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This is a question I’ve been asking and looking for in scripture and wanted to find out what others have found in their own research.

Where does the notion of free will come from? Our ability to freely choose or reject God.

Hope everyone is having a great week!

Blessings!
 
I would start with the book of Genesis.

God created Adam and Eve to love him, but gave them freedom of will. Had God not given them free will, they would not have been able to choose to do the serpent’s bidding instead of obeying Him.

In disobeying God, they gave the rest of us a great deal of trouble, but we, imperfect as we now are, can still choose to love and follow God to the best of our abilities.

Had God not given Adam and Eve free will, they could not have chosen to disobey, but neither could they have freely chosen to love God.
 
Stouts989 said:
This is a question I’ve been asking and looking for in scripture and wanted to find out what others have found in their own research.

Where does the notion of free will come from? Our ability to freely choose or reject God.

Hope everyone is having a great week!

Blessings!
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When one remembers that God did not have to create us ~ one can begin to understand free will. God made us in His image and likeness. He gave us free will when He freely chose to create us. He does not need us for anything however He created us out of total love. Therefore (for me) it makes complete sense that He also gave us free will in creating us. If we were created to know, love, honor and serve Him in this world… we would have to freely desire that on our part and not be demanded to - or mandated - or coerced in anyway. We would have to freely choose to know, love and honor God…freely on our own.

Would you really “love” your spouse if you were forced to marry her? Free will is everything that will make us or break us spiritually. If we freely choose to love God than we are well on our way to holiness and growth in the spiritual life. Next to life itself it is our most precious gift…and most tragic when so many of us misuse by failing to know, love and honor God by missing so many opportunities (sins of omission). I am one of them.

God Bless your desire to grow closer to God by understanding this great truth of our faith!
 
uxordepp said:
I would start with the book of Genesis.

God created Adam and Eve to love him, but gave them freedom of will. Had God not given them free will, they would not have been able to choose to do the serpent’s bidding instead of obeying Him.

In disobeying God, they gave the rest of us a great deal of trouble, but we, imperfect as we now are, can still choose to love and follow God to the best of our abilities.

Had God not given Adam and Eve free will, they could not have chosen to disobey, but neither could they have freely chosen to love God.
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Genesis is where I looked as a starting point as well. And made the observation; God did put the tree in the garden…so the choice is clearly there…or is it? IDK Maybe God put the tree there knowing we could not, not choose…and knew we needed to fall in order to truly love Him?

Does our love come from our ability to freely love and choose God? Or does our love come because God first loved us…despite our failabilities?

Can we love God unless we are fallen?

Just some random thoughts I’ve had…and wanted to see what others are thinking…

Thanks.
 
Jesus invited the apostles and the rich young man to follow Him but He didn’t force them to do so.
 
Stouts989 said:
Genesis is where I looked as a starting point as well. And made the observation; God did put the tree in the garden…so the choice is clearly there…or is it? IDK Maybe God put the tree there knowing we could not, not choose…and knew we needed to fall in order to truly love Him?

Does our love come from our ability to freely love and choose God? Or does our love come because God first loved us…despite our failabilities?

Can we love God unless we are fallen?

Just some random thoughts I’ve had…and wanted to see what others are thinking…

Thanks.
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Does this mean that those who fail a lot, love God more than those who lead nearly perfect lives (more perfect in following God’s law)? The more you fail, the greater your love?

We tell kids that there are loving and unloving acts. Sin is an unloving act. When we sin we distance ourselves from God. Through repentance and Confession we become closer to God again.

I’m not sure what you mean sinning is the only way man could truly love God.

People always had free will. Before the fall, there was free will to love God. I believe that there was never a God-given compulsion to follow Him. Given that there was always a choice, there was always freely-given love. No one was ever forced to follow Him, not even the first, Adam and Eve.

So I’m really confused about the idea that sin makes love possible.

God doesn’t sin and yet is love.
 
=Stouts989;5290758]This is a question I’ve been asking and looking for in scripture and wanted to find out what others have found in their own research.
Click to expand...
Where does the notion of free will come from? Our ability to freely choose or reject God.
Click to expand...
Hope everyone is having a great week!
Click to expand...
Blessings!
Click to expand...
It begans with genesis 1:26, being CREATED in “the image and likeness of God.” Freewill is an attribute of God that we share. His is perfect, our imperfect!

As to “freewill in action” here ar but a few examples"
Duet.30: 19
Job 34: 4
Psalm 16: 4
Acts 15: 25
Proverbs 3: 31
Phil. 1: 22
Sirach 6: 18
2 Mac.7: 14

So there you have the “before and after story.”👍
 
kalt said:
God doesn’t sin and yet is love.
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But we aren’t God…nor a god.

Those who succeed more than others in following God are still fallen and sinful. Our God works don’t draw us closer to God nor make us right…or more right before God…that’s was Jesus job…and “it is finished”.

I don’t think those who are Christians and sin more then some others can love more…maybe more humble perhaps.

I wish the Bible was more clear on the matter…considering places like Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 that seem to speak against the notion of free will…but perhaps not.
 
PJM said:
It begans with genesis 1:26, being CREATED in “the image and likeness of God.” Freewill is an attribute of God that we share. His is perfect, our imperfect!

As to “freewill in action” here ar but a few examples"
Duet.30: 19
Job 34: 4
Psalm 16: 4
Acts 15: 25
Proverbs 3: 31
Phil. 1: 22
Sirach 6: 18
2 Mac.7: 14

So there you have the “before and after story.”👍
Click to expand...
Thank you sir. I’ll look at the verses a little later when I have more time. I never thought about the created in the image and likeness of God idea before…I like that.
 
Stouts989 said:
But we aren’t God…nor a god.

Those who succeed more than others in following God are still fallen and sinful. Our God works don’t draw us closer to God nor make us right…or more right before God…that’s was Jesus job…and “it is finished”.

I don’t think those who are Christians and sin more then some others can love more…maybe more humble perhaps.

I wish the Bible was more clear on the matter…considering places like Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 that seem to speak against the notion of free will…but perhaps not.
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Did you say that we had to be sinful to truly love God? I pointed out that God doesn’t sin and yet is love.

Certainly love doesn’t require sin.
 
kalt said:
Did you say that we had to be sinful to truly love God? I pointed out that God doesn’t sin and yet is love.

Certainly love doesn’t require sin.
Click to expand...
For God it doesn’t…because he is God, but we are not gods.

I was just asking the question about us as created finite beings. If we are perfect and sinless and unfailing and not a fallen people…could we be humble enough to love God? Just a hypothetical questions thats all…we won’t fully know God’s intentions, maybe once we are with Him in heaven. Knowing that God is God and has the best of intentions is good enough for me.

Just some thoughts on why maybe the fall happened.
 
The way I see it is this…(my opinion)

Before God created the universe, the physical world, He must have set some laws first - both Divine and physical. He is, nevertheless, also bound by His own laws (like… He cannot create a god better than Him… or He cannot make angels less than a man… or He cannot abort the mission He gave to His only begotten Son to save humankind… or He’s going to change the pull of gravity every now and then… only one moon for the earth, etc.) and everything He did was good (Genesis 1)!

He created man in His own image capable of reason, love, and understanding. Capable of making a choice - to obey or not to obey - live and die according to these laws and commandments.

Man is given his freedom to choose…

But the bigger question is… how far should we use that freedom?
Say, shall a normal person jump into the Amazon river full of piranhas and expect God to save him? No! What you don’t see can kill you.
Shall he walk into a den of lions and expect to be respected by them? Again, no! Don’t even think about it.
Shall a normal person jump from a thousand-foot cliff and expect not to get killed? No! Gravity kills.
Shall a doctor perform an abortion just because he can? No! It’s murder.
In short, anything we do that messes up with these divine or physical or scientifical or moral laws, extreme or not, is bad to us and others. It’s an abuse. And then if we don’t like the result we question God.
It’s been said, “Do not tempt the Lord, thy God”… Therefore, we must not play god!

Once God started creations He started making laws - for Him and for us for our own good. He continues to reveal most of these through His Church. We have a free will to obey or not.

Truth and peace…
 
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