Free will

  • Thread starter Thread starter Natas
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
Natas:
I’m not saying that God doesn’t exist…I’m postulating that if there is a Supernatural force in this universe (God)…that indeed CREATED this universe…then it is most likely not the God of the bible…more importantly - it is much, much more complex, powerful, omniscient, and omnipotent than anything in the Bible. I seriously doubt the word of man when it comes to the bible… To use a metaphor…the bible *smells too human *to be taken seriously as a text spawned from the supernatural God it so miserably tries to describe…Have you read the account of the supernatural…the miracles of the bible?..It is so rooted in the “parlance of the times”…that it’s almost funny.
For instance…God spoke with Moses …through a burning bush?..oh really. A burning bush. hmmmmm. Why would the most powerful force in the known universe speak to Moses with a burning bush??? It’s almost retarded.
Moses split the red sea…oh really. Why split the red sea…How about making the sea completely gone!..I’ll do you one better - forget walking across a desert …You’ll just be at your destination …right… now!. You see what I’m saying?..The miracles and supernatural things that happen in the bible sound like exactly what they probably are. Ancients sitting around a fire trying to push the envelope on what sounds truly remarkable when in reality it’s truly silly in comparison to what a God would be capable of doing…some of it is just a power above aesop fable style nonsense really. Does anyone think about this?
Click to expand...
Natas, The Bible 'Smells Human" because that’s who God is talking to. Why don’t you offer your suggestions to God in your prayers? If I have a choice between the way you think things should be done and the way God does things, I’ll continue trusting in the almighty.

Freewill is given to people out of love. Pray about it…
 
40.png
ppcpilot:
natas is satan backwards guys, if you couldn’t figure that one out.

Satan, you are looking at this big picture too broadly. You need to pick one thing, and examine it. Find something about Christianity, one thing or premise, and lets discuss.
Click to expand...
:eek: Eh, so he was trying to decieve, eh? :mad:
 
40.png
Natas:
I’m a little confused regarding why the concept of free will is such a binding idea. If a Christian God gave us free will…how would we know the difference…if he didn’t.?
Click to expand...
Great question with very good points. Not all Christians believe in this “free will” stuff. In the reformed camp (those of us who adhere to the theology of the Reformers: Luther, Calvin, et al) would agree that we have a will…it’s just that our will could never supercede God’s will. This is in the Bible time and time again, one example being Acts 4:27-28 where those who crucified Christ were predestined to do so. How would God accomplish anything if he were at the mercy of mere humans?
Have you read the account of the supernatural…the miracles of the bible?..It is so rooted in the “parlance of the times”…that it’s almost funny.
For instance…God spoke with Moses …through a burning bush?..oh really. A burning bush. hmmmmm. Why would the most powerful force in the known universe speak to Moses with a burning bush??? It’s almost retarded.
Moses split the red sea…oh really. Why split the red sea…How about making the sea completely gone!..I’ll do you one better - forget walking across a desert …You’ll just be at your destination …right… now!. You see what I’m saying?
Click to expand...
Your wishing the miracles in the Bible to be more modernized do not make them untrue. It’s sort of like the kid who turns up his nose at beets–“I don’t like them! Therefore they aren’t real!” I’d like to see something more sophisticated from you before we can get anywhere per your Bible critique. As a sidenote, I can see great reasons for each of those miracles to be done in the way they were. For example, the red sea was split so that it would come crashing back down on the Egyptian pursuers. Walking across the desert for 40 years because the Jews had to learn to appreciate the promised land and to trust in God’s plan. Burning bush? I have no idea why you would even care about that one, pretty amazing if you ask me.

Is Jesus’ appearing in a locked room after his death modern enough for you? Walking on water? Making a terrible storm instantly and suddenly cease? I could go on… 🙂

God bless,
c0ach
 
40.png
Natas:
I’m not saying that God doesn’t exist…I’m postulating that if there is a Supernatural force in this universe (God)…that indeed CREATED this universe…then it is most likely not the God of the bible…more importantly - it is much, much more complex, powerful, omniscient, and omnipotent than anything in the Bible. I seriously doubt the word of man when it comes to the bible… To use a metaphor…the bible *smells too human *to be taken seriously as a text spawned from the supernatural God it so miserably tries to describe…Have you read the account of the supernatural…the miracles of the bible?..It is so rooted in the “parlance of the times”…that it’s almost funny.
For instance…God spoke with Moses …through a burning bush?..oh really. A burning bush. hmmmmm. Why would the most powerful force in the known universe speak to Moses with a burning bush??? It’s almost retarded.
Moses split the red sea…oh really. Why split the red sea…How about making the sea completely gone!..I’ll do you one better - forget walking across a desert …You’ll just be at your destination …right… now!. You see what I’m saying?..The miracles and supernatural things that happen in the bible sound like exactly what they probably are. Ancients sitting around a fire trying to push the envelope on what sounds truly remarkable when in reality it’s truly silly in comparison to what a God would be capable of doing…some of it is just a power above aesop fable style nonsense really. Does anyone think about this?
Click to expand...
First off, Satan already existed outside time-space. He was an angel who got kicked out of Heaven because he tried to be God. He’s definitely worse off now.

As for God smelling human, it’s more the other way around. Since we were created in His image, there’s bound to be similarities. As for the burning bush, this is the same God who also had the humility to become man and die a horrific, not to mention humiliating death on a cross. Nothing is too small and nothing is too great. It wasn’t necessary to make the sea disappear when all it needed to be was parted. Moses and everyone had to wander around the desert for 40 years to learn something. Everything has a purpose; nothing is done without a purpose.
 
40.png
Natas:
Well…what did happen? Apparently Satan is now a God himself correct? I mean he doesn’t die…he has supernatural powers, and apparently has a cozy little place outside time and space…like heaven. Except it’s for the “bad people”. Is Satan upset? Is he in pain…is it a bummer to be Satan? I’m sure no one knows… Ib.
Click to expand...
no Satan is what he always was, a creature, an angel, a pure spirit created by God with free will, eternal life, and full knowledge of God, free to accept or reject union with God. He rejected God and since then suffers the everlasting torment of separation from God, a torment nearly impossible to understand or explain in human terms except by using metaphors like eternal fire to describe this state of being: Hell. Eternal torment can hardly be described as cozy. Is he upset? continually, at the prospect the humans, created less than the angels, actually have the same free will and same possibility of eternal union with God. Upset that angels were called upon to serve these inferior beings, which was the grounds for his original rebellion. Is he in pain? Yes, ceaseless, agonizing pain that causes him to perpetually lash out against humans, since he is powerless to affect God Himself. Only when God became human did Satan enjoy for a moment the appearance of power over Him, only to be definitively vanquished in all his designs for the world when Christ overcame death and won our salvation.
 
I don’t have much to comment. I just wished to include a quote from G.K. Chesterton, and I’ll be gone.

The Secularist constantly points out that the Hebrew and Christian religions began as local things; that their god was a tribal god; that they gave him material form, and attached him to particular places…

If there be such a being as God, and He can speak to a child, and if God spoke to a child in the garden, the child would, of course, say that God lived in the garden. I should not think it any less likely to be true for that. If the child said: ‘God is everywhere; an implalpable essence pervading and supporting all constituents of the Cosmos alike’- if, I say, the infant addressed me in the above terms, I should think he was much more likely to have been with the governess than with God.

So if Moses had said God was an Infinite Energy, I should be certain he had seen nothing extraordinary. As he said He was a Burning Bush, I think it very likely that he did see sometething extraordinary. For whatever be the Divine Secret, and whether or no it has (as all people have believed) sometimes broken bounds and surged into our world, at least it lies on the side furthest away from pedants and their definitions, and nearest to the silver souls of quiet people, to the beauty of bushes, and the love of one’s native place.

Thus, then, in our last instance (out of hundreds that might be taken), we conclude in the same way. When the learned sceptic says: “The visions of the Old Testament were local, and rustic, and grotesque,” we shall answer: “Of course. They were genuine.”
 
Look…I was just postulating…I re-read my last post, and maybe it was a bit extreme. As far as Natas being Satan backwards…it’s purely coincidental…Dog is God backwards…I bet everyone would have freaked out if my handle was Dog huh?? Would you believe me If I said that my birthname is Natas…Natas Kapas? ANYWAY???.. Like I said…I’m not attacking God…or Catholicism…but from what I’ve learned throughout my life is that a human beings “interpretation” of something can be very far from the truth…period. I find the unfathomable amount of debate that can be gotten into regarding all things scripture…the complete contradictory elements between the Prots, and the Caths…the numerous other texts of scripture that have been left out or added etc…etc… to lead to one thing…WE DON’T KNOW SQUAT…If we go back 1500 years or more to those ancient times…98% of the population that WOULD have known about “Christianity”…none of them even had a bible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top