Free Will

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Fulcrum

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Our actions are governed more by algorithms than by free will. As Catholics how are we to respond to such an allegation?
 
“I’m sorry, but that doesn’t compute. Could you please rephrase?” Try that.
 
Fulcrum said:
Our actions are governed more by algorithms than by free will. As Catholics how are we to respond to such an allegation?
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You are a married man and are away from home, you meet a woman that in no uncertain terms invites you over for a quickie. No strings attached.

Let me know if “free will” or “algorithms” take over will ya! :cool:
 
Tell them that if they’re right about us living in a purely materialistic universe then they’re right about us having no free will. That everything in their mind is determined by the laws of nature chugging along. Then ask them whether that’s truly rational given their own human experience of being able to contradict their own instincts by sheer willpower. (And you could ask them why they trust human reason so much if what they’re saying is true.) If they concede that experience contradicts the “logic” of materialism, then introduce them to Mr. Not-Bound-By -Laws-of-Nature Soul. Tell them that said contradiction is only resolvable in the realm of philosophy and metaphysics. If they’re merely a science-worshiper, as opposed to someone willing to embrace wherever logic takes them, they’ll balk.
 
Look if this person is worth his salt then he should be able to write down and then demonstrate an algorithm. It should give him some predictive ability. Just ask for a demonstration.
 
JerryZ said:
…, you meet a woman that in no uncertain terms invites you over for a quickie. No strings attached.
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Suppose the woman is a Daughter of Lucifer. She says, “Our actions are governed more by algorithms than by free will. Say nothing and your silence will convict you. Speak and utter a lie.”
 
WoundedIcon said:
Tell them that if they’re right about us living in a purely materialistic universe then they’re right about us having no free will. That everything in their mind is determined by the laws of nature chugging along. Then ask them whether that’s truly rational given their own human experience of being able to contradict their own instincts by sheer willpower. (And you could ask them why they trust human reason so much if what they’re saying is true.) If they concede that experience contradicts the “logic” of materialism, then introduce them to Mr. Not-Bound-By -Laws-of-Nature Soul. Tell them that said contradiction is only resolvable in the realm of philosophy and metaphysics. If they’re merely a science-worshiper, as opposed to someone willing to embrace wherever logic takes them, they’ll balk.
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Most of the time a trouble-maker will have a below average IQ. An ability to dismiss such an individual is to rely on happenstance and the law of the juggle. There is a field of logic known as paraconsistent logic. See plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-paraconsistent/ You should thank God that I’m your side, because if I was ever turned I would be a nightmare. I fear that the Church has not been keeping up with the times.
 
The arguments put forth by the Church has withstood for several centuries, but the enemy has been diligent. Busy are they to overturn as they put it the tyranny of Aristotle.
 
Fulcrum said:
Suppose the woman is a Daughter of Lucifer. She says, “Our actions are governed more by algorithms than by free will. Say nothing and your silence will convict you. Speak and utter a lie.”
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Must I answer the Riddle of the Sphinx for you? Some things require faith.
 
God is unseen. His truth is both seen and unseen.

May God have mercy on your soul.
 
If the work of Saint Thomas Aquinas should fall, verily I say to you, not all hope will be lost.
 
Consider the arrogance of man when he proclaims that he knows it all. As it was so, so too it is today.
 
JamesATyler said:
Look if this person is worth his salt then he should be able to write down and then demonstrate an algorithm. It should give him some predictive ability. Just ask for a demonstration.
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Great idea!
Mary.
 
JamesATyler said:
You respond by saying, “What are the algorithms?”
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You would be foolish to ask such a question unless your opponent were weak. Again, it returns to happenstance and the law of the jungle. Oh, dear it appears that I managed to misspell jungle. I spelt it earlier as juggle. Anyway, Catholics are better than most at playing the Lion King. Playing it better is just a court room drama, however. That is not what the Church maintains. It isn’t just that Catholics make better attorneys.

The predicative abilities of modern algorithms are better than the predictive abilities of many humans. Sure, they all fail, but so do people. It is beneath me to give specific examples. This is better left up to an atheist who feels inclined to take you people on.
 
Fulcrum said:
Our actions are governed more by algorithms than by free will. As Catholics how are we to respond to such an allegation?
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Meh, I probably agree on one level, that of counting my daily actions and my daily number of fully deliberated free choices. Most of the time I act by habit, trained responses, inclination of the moment, etc. Remember, some of those habits were created by a free choice which I have not reversed.

For example, the vast majority of Sundays I go to mass on the force of having chosen to do so every Sunday until I die. I’m not choosing to go every Sunday anew, like I spent time considering the possibility of choosing not go that particular morning.
 
Sorry if I seem conceited, but this is how a Catholic would respond, shrewd like Christ. You do not want to deny what may be a fact. If you do this, in time you will be relegated to a ghetto and shunned as if you were born retarded. Pug you made my day. I also notice that you are a senior member.
Pug said:
Meh, I probably agree on one level, that of counting my daily actions and my daily number of fully deliberated free choices. Most of the time I act by habit, trained responses, inclination of the moment, etc. Remember, some of those habits were created by a free choice which I have not reversed.

For example, the vast majority of Sundays I go to mass on the force of having chosen to do so every Sunday until I die. I’m not choosing to go every Sunday anew, like I spent time considering the possibility of choosing not go that particular morning.
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It is becoming increasingly apparent that we have less free will than we thought, but free will is tough like Blessed Teresa of Calcutta. Many chose not exercise what free will they have. It is easier to run on autopilot, but a life run on autopilot won’t be a meaningful one. Satan has enough claim to us to keep us here for now. Even God has acknowledged this.

It is not easy to overcome your base instincts and to do what is right. If you do right, you will surely be punished for it.
 
I hope my passion will not prove to be too offensive. That said,

ndcourts.gov/court/rules/ndroc/rule6.10.htm: “To a Witness. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you God.”

As a Christian and as a Catholic this is your testimony. Your testimony is to the whole truth.
 
The whole truth is we are not automatons though we may be partially described as such. Even your physician may speak of plumbing and such. This is not to say that it is the whole truth.
 
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