Free will?

[Man]

This seems more in keeping with observed reality than much of Christian theology as I understand it.

Nah, the part that actually includes reason sounds much like something I read and something I heard from an Archbishop.

He intersperses various Allah is greats and judges this way or that we disregard, and “Allah judges based on man’s choices” and whatnot.

The thing is, we regard Jesus as free. Freely giving up His life in a display of love that man could understand. There is only a contradiction here, if you ignore the fact that He took His life up again as He willed.

The rest of us have some authority over us, and our thoughts are clouded by culture, sexuality, and all manner of other biases. Meanwhile, we can’t always determine what is best or desirable.

And, of course, God is free to do as He will.

 

[truthnlight]

How many times have I heard someone say, “A loving God wouldn’t put His creatures in hell.” Well I have news for you, friend, God doesn’t put anyone in hell–their sins put them there. Know ye not that hell was not created for man? Hell was created for the devil and his angels–

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. (Matthew 25:41)

Men go to hell because they choose the devil’s way and reject the Lord Jesus. God is holy and will not allow any sin in His kingdom. As a result, when people die in their sins they are forever banished from the presence of God to a place called hell–and it ain’t pretty. Incidentally, Satan won’t be ruling in the lake of fire. He’ll be screamin’ and hollerin’ just like everybody else–

the devil…shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

The Lord is…not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (II Peter 3:9)

When you take your last breath you will be in Heaven or Hell !

The following is a true story as told by the Lord Jesus in Luke 16:19-31:

1. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
2. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
3. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
4. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
5. And in Hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
6. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
7. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
8. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
9. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
10. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
11. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
12. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
13. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[stashko]

Allah alone, has Free Will, He Wills whatever He likes and it will always happen as He wills. We have something called, “Free choice.” The difference is that what Allah “Wills” always happens and what we choose may or may not happen.

Allah without a doubt has Power over all things. He created everything that has been created and His knowledge is Absolute.

**Knowest thou not that to Allah (alone) belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? He punisheth whom He pleaseth, and He forgiveth whom He pleaseth: and Allah hath power over all things. **…(Qur’an 5:40)

And therefore, this verse completely nullifies the Christians’ claim that on the Day of Judgment, it is apparently not the Most Supreme Judge of all… but rather it is the creations themselves who will send themselves to the Hellfire supposedly through their own “freewill”.

This kind of Christian reasoning makes absolutely no sense at all to a Muslim.

When we talk about Allah’s will we mean two things:

1. Everything that happens is known by Allah
2. Everything that happens is by His permission

Allah has knowledge of what humans will do and Allah has given them permission to do what they choose. This is where free choice comes into play.

Humankind has been given guidance via Prophets (peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all) and it has been made clear to them what is good and what is wrong. With guidance, humankind has been blessed with the choice to do good or bad. Allah has given man guidance and the permission to do as he pleases thus only man is responsible for his action.

Allowing a person to do something after he has been given guidance and the sense to distinguish between right and wrong does not mean the one giving the permission is responsible. This is the entire concept of free choice. We have been given the choice and permission to comply or deny and thus we are responsible for our actions. Truly Allah(swt) is the “justest of Judges” (Qur’an 11:45)

Brother sort of what you say i believe and accept …i as a orthodox eastern christian ,christ being GOD he him self chose to suffer and die to defeat death that had power over us ,out of love for us all… that we may have eternal life …people your right chose heven or hell …how can a unrepented sinner that dies stand to be before the eternal light and Majesty of GOD he must flee were but to hell ,for God is like a consuming fire.Only the just and the rightous can stand before his awsome Majesty …peace ,stashko

 

[stashko]

How many times have I heard someone say, “A loving God wouldn’t put His creatures in hell.” Well I have news for you, friend, God doesn’t put anyone in hell–their sins put them there. Know ye not that hell was not created for man? Hell was created for the devil and his angels–

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. (Matthew 25:41)

Men go to hell because they choose the devil’s way and reject the Lord Jesus. God is holy and will not allow any sin in His kingdom. As a result, when people die in their sins they are forever banished from the presence of God to a place called hell–and it ain’t pretty. Incidentally, Satan won’t be ruling in the lake of fire. He’ll be screamin’ and hollerin’ just like everybody else–

the devil…shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

The Lord is…not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (II Peter 3:9)

When you take your last breath you will be in Heaven or Hell !

The following is a true story as told by the Lord Jesus in Luke 16:19-31:

1. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
2. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
3. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
4. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
5. And in Hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
6. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
7. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
8. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
9. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
10. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
11. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
12. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
13. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

amin amin i say…stashko

 

[cheddarsox]

Because it is right there in the bible my friend:

but what does it mean?

 

[Singinbeauty]

but what does it mean?

Confusion in something often stems from us over thinking something. In order to explain it I would need you to tell me first what is confusing about it. I see clearly that God IS Love. Everything about Him encompasses a Perfect Love. There is nothing about Him that would rival this.

If you love your children you try to do everything to keep them from harm but because you love them you know that they have to make their choices in life and you can’t always protect them without seriously damaging your relationship with them. We are very stubborn children. Even tho God has set forth a wonderful guideline that will keep us from hurt we love to screw it up because ‘we know best’.

But God is Love and to know that Love is to know Him. You can’t have one without the other.

 

[hamba2han]

The Truth is supposed to set one free.

By refusing to even acknowledge that God is the One who will send many of His creations to the Hellfire, Christians are unnecessarily putting themselves in a straight-jacket which is preventing them from fully appreciating and worshiping their Creator properly.

Who among His creations goes to Paradise or Hell can only be determined by God Himself and NOT His creations.

Say it out loud everyone and believe it with all your heart – It is not their sins which will land the creations in Hell, it is none other than God Himself who will send them to the Hellfire.

God-willing, this will set Christians free from this mental and emotional straight-jacket of thinking that an all-loving God will not send His creations to Hell and which is a false teaching that is not found in the Bible.

 

[Man]

The Truth is supposed to set one free.

By refusing to even acknowledge that God is the One who will send many of His creations to the Hellfire, Christians are unnecessarily putting themselves in a straight-jacket which is preventing them from fully appreciating and worshiping their Creator properly.

Who among His creations goes to Paradise or Hell can only be determined by God Himself and NOT His creations.

Say it out loud everyone and believe in it with all your heart – It is not their sins which will land the creations in Hell, it is none other than God Himself who will send them to the Hellfire.

God-willing, this will set Christians free from this mental and emotional straight-jacket of thinking that an all-loving God will not send His creations to Hell and which is a false teaching that is not found in the Bible.

This argument is not really fitting to use on Catholics. We aren’t fundamentalists who just ask God for forgiveness. We should properly go to Confession to be forgiven.

Also, the rules state that we should never:
Assume our innocence
OR
Despair in our sin

Essentially, you are telling me how God judges yourself.

You would lead the sinners into despair with such words. While they could could be considered true to some extent, you should never give a sinner the despair to disengage him from God, thus, lowering the morality of man… Maybe you should state it in the positive and negative (in an almost Jewish way).

 

[Booklover]

The Truth is supposed to set one free.

By refusing to even acknowledge that God is the One who will send many of His creations to the Hellfire, Christians are unnecessarily putting themselves in a straight-jacket which is preventing them from fully appreciating and worshiping their Creator properly.

Who among His creations goes to Paradise or Hell can only be determined by God Himself and NOT His creations.

Say it out loud everyone and believe in it with all your heart – It is not the sins which will land the creations in Hell, it is none other than God Himself who will send them to the Hellfire.

God-willing, this will set you free from this mental and emotional straight-jacket of thinking that an all-loving God will not send His creations to Hell and which is a falsehood that is not found in the Bible.

This is nonsense! And how does "Allah’ determine who goes to heaven or to hell??? Why bother to live a good life then, if Allah may send you to hell regardless??

Muslims are the ones that are in a straight jacket if they believe that “Allah” will send someone to hell on a whim.

God wants all men to be saved! The only things that can keep us from going to heaven are unrepented mortal sins!

Vickie

 

[hamba2han]

This argument is not really fitting to use on Catholics. We aren’t fundamentalists who just ask God for forgiveness. We should properly go to Confession to be forgiven.

Also, the rules state that we should never:
Assume our innocence
OR
Despair in our sin

Essentially, you are telling me how God judges yourself.

You would lead the sinners into despair with such words. While they could could be considered true to some extent, you should never give a sinner the despair to disengage him from God, thus, lowering the morality of man… Maybe you should state it in the positive and negative (in an almost Jewish way).

Big-time major sinners too can enter Paradise but on condition that they first sincerely repent their sins and wrongdoings as can be seen from numerous verses from the Qur’an, among them are these two examples:

“Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves”… [al-Baqarah 2:222]

“Say: O ‘Ibaadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”… [al-Zumar 39:53]

Those who sincerely repent all of their wrongdoings should never despair that their Creator will not grant them relief when they come back to Him, no matter how far astray they might have gone.

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:** “Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, says: ‘I am as My slave thinks I am, and I am with him when he remembers Me. If he remembers me to himself, I remember him to Myself; if he remembers Me in a gathering, I remember him in a gathering better than it; if he draws near to Me a handspan, I draw near to him an arm’s length; if he draws near to me an arm’s length, I draw near to him a fathom’s length; if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.”** Narrated by Muslim (2675).

 

[Man]

Big-time major sinners too can enter Paradise but on condition that they first sincerely repent their sins and wrongdoings as can be seen from numerous verses from the Qur’an, among them are these two examples:

“Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves”… [al-Baqarah 2:222]

“Say: O ‘Ibaadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”… [al-Zumar 39:53]

Those who sincerely repent all of their wrongdoings should never despair that their Creator will not grant them relief when they come back to Him, no matter how far astray they might have gone.

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:** “Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, says: ‘I am as My slave thinks I am, and I am with him when he remembers Me. If he remembers me to himself, I remember him to Myself; if he remembers Me in a gathering, I remember him in a gathering better than it; if he draws near to Me a handspan, I draw near to him an arm’s length; if he draws near to me an arm’s length, I draw near to him a fathom’s length; if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.”** Narrated by Muslim (2675).

I thought so, I’d hate for everyone here to get the wrong idea… there is plenty of bias around already…

 

[Booklover]

Big-time major sinners too can enter Paradise but on condition that they first sincerely repent their sins and wrongdoings as can be seen from numerous verses from the Qur’an, among them are these two examples:

“Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves”… [al-Baqarah 2:222]

“Say: O ‘Ibaadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah, verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”… [al-Zumar 39:53]

Those who sincerely repent all of their wrongdoings should never despair that their Creator will not grant them relief when they come back to Him, no matter how far astray they might have gone.

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:** “Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, says: ‘I am as My slave thinks I am, and I am with him when he remembers Me. If he remembers me to himself, I remember him to Myself; if he remembers Me in a gathering, I remember him in a gathering better than it; if he draws near to Me a handspan, I draw near to him an arm’s length; if he draws near to me an arm’s length, I draw near to him a fathom’s length; if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.”** Narrated by Muslim (2675).

Now you’re backtracking! First you state that “Allah” can send anyone to hell regardless and now this!

A very irrational “god” is your “Allah”!

Vickie

 

[Man]

Now you’re backtracking! First you state that “Allah” can send anyone to hell regardless and now this!

A very irrational “god” is your “Allah”!

Vickie

Nah, there was a -little- area to see forgiveness in what was said. That is what I pointed out. It’s a contradiction! The cry that always resounds. Just don’t believe because Mohammad said that Jesus didn’t die on the Cross. That enough for me… Or you could just reject Islam because Mohammad says all or much of the Bible has been rewritten, so that he could bring the “final” book. Take your pick!

 

[cheddarsox]

Confusion in something often stems from us over thinking something. In order to explain it I would need you to tell me first what is confusing about it. I see clearly that God IS Love. Everything about Him encompasses a Perfect Love. There is nothing about Him that would rival this.

If you love your children you try to do everything to keep them from harm but because you love them you know that they have to make their choices in life and you can’t always protect them without seriously damaging your relationship with them. We are very stubborn children. Even tho God has set forth a wonderful guideline that will keep us from hurt we love to screw it up because ‘we know best’.

But God is Love and to know that Love is to know Him. You can’t have one without the other.

I agree that God is Love, but I did not know what Christians meant by it. Thank you for explaining what it means to you.

 

[paarsurrey]

Muslims are the ones that are in a straight jacket if they believe that “Allah” will send someone to hell on a whim.
God wants all men to be saved! The only things that can keep us from going to heaven are unrepented mortal sins!
Vickie

Hi
I agree with you. I think those who believe that GodAllahYHWH sends anybody whom he desired to hell has not understood the verses correctly, it seems to be a misconeption.
Thanks

Adam did make a mistake, but since he repented and was forgiven by GodAllahYHWH so it cannot be called a sin.