Freedom from the Bondage and Consequence of Sin

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nickybr38

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Can someone explain to me what this means?

A protestant friend said to me that Jesus Christ freed us from the bondage and consequence of sin. Now the freed us from bondage I don’t have too much of a problem with but freed us from the consequence?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding but that just sounded to me like saying now that we have Jesus we can do whatever we want and not be punished at all for it. That defies everything that’s in Scripture so I really think I must be misunderstanding what he meant. It’s pretty clear there are still consequences to sin! Even in THIS life so how come we assume there will be absolutely no consequences for our sin after this life?

That conversation is over (no apologetics needed) but I’m still left bothered by the statement he made and I’m really trying to understand (I didn’t ask him because it was off topic to what we were discussing at the time and I didn’t want to completely derail our discussion).

So, my Protestant brothers and sisters, what the HECK does someone mean when they say: Jesus freed us from the bondage and consequence of sin?

PS: I was Protestant but I never thought about what this term MEANS. I might have regurgitated it blindly once or twice but never really thought about it so I just don’t get it. 😊
 
Can someone explain to me what this means?

A protestant friend said to me that Jesus Christ freed us from the bondage and consequence of sin. Now the freed us from bondage I don’t have too much of a problem with but freed us from the consequence?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding but that just sounded to me like saying now that we have Jesus we can do whatever we want and not be punished at all for it. That defies everything that’s in Scripture so I really think I must be misunderstanding what he meant. It’s pretty clear there are still consequences to sin! Even in THIS life so how come we assume there will be absolutely no consequences for our sin after this life?

That conversation is over (no apologetics needed) but I’m still left bothered by the statement he made and I’m really trying to understand (I didn’t ask him because it was off topic to what we were discussing at the time and I didn’t want to completely derail our discussion).

So, my Protestant brothers and sisters, what the HECK does someone mean when they say: Jesus freed us from the bondage and consequence of sin?

PS: I was Protestant but I never thought about what this term MEANS. I might have regurgitated it blindly once or twice but never really thought about it so I just don’t get it. 😊
In a nutshell, it is the doctrine of “Once saved, always saved”. Sin no longer matters and cannot harm us after we have asked Jesus into our heart. This is one of the most destructive and uninformed postions out there, IMO, and places many people in great spiritual danger.
 
I always thought the “consequence of sin” was death and damnation.
 
I always thought the “consequence of sin” was death and damnation.
Ah… that could be the position being set forth.

However… when you read the Bible people are ‘punished’ for sin in ways that aren’t always death and damnation. Sometimes we have to make right what we’ve done wrong, it doesn’t mean we’re not forgiven, it just means we have to repair the damage we’ve done. I consider that a consequence of sin.

But if that is the definition Protestants have of the consequences of sin then the statement makes some kind of sense. But I guess I just see sin differently. 🤷
 
I remember reading in one of Paul’s letters where he mentions that God may chastise those he loves in order to get them to stop sinning/draw them back to himself. But I cannot remember the exact verse(even though I read it last night 😊).

This sort of thing is extensive in the OT.

I think it is a matter of the ultimate penalty of sin from which we are loosed, rather than an situational or more minor thing.

Sin is a state of the world. Even if we are free of it personally, we see the consequences of sin every day around us, wrought by believers and unbelievers alike, and these consequences can and do have real impacts on our lives.
 
=nickybr38;8228717]Can someone explain to me what this means?
A protestant friend said to me that Jesus Christ freed us from the bondage and consequence of sin. Now the freed us from bondage I don’t have too much of a problem with but freed us from the consequence?
Maybe I’m misunderstanding but that just sounded to me like saying now that we have Jesus we can do whatever we want and not be punished at all for it. That defies everything that’s in Scripture so I really think I must be misunderstanding what he meant. It’s pretty clear there are still consequences to sin! Even in THIS life so how come we assume there will be absolutely no consequences for our sin after this life?
That conversation is over (no apologetics needed) but I’m still left bothered by the statement he made and I’m really trying to understand (I didn’t ask him because it was off topic to what we were discussing at the time and I didn’t want to completely derail our discussion).
So, my Protestant brothers and sisters, what the HECK does someone mean when they say: Jesus freed us from the bondage and consequence of sin?
PS: I was Protestant but I never thought about what this term MEANS. I might have regurgitated it blindly once or twice but never really thought about it so I just don’t get it. 😊
Hi Nicky!

It’s a elongated expresion for OSAS. And it’s a lie. It has no biblical foundation, denying God his RIGHT to being Perfect AND GOOD, and humanity there God given right to use their gifts of mind, intellect and freewill to determine for themselves, where they will speand eternity.

It denies Baptism, Obedience to the Commandents, Obedience to the Church [key’s to heaven], and the necessity of Grace and Good works; ALL of which are evidencied in the Bible.

It’s a man-made, man created “religious theory” that MUST be easier than Catholism in order to survive.:o

It will NOT get anyone to heaven if they have unforgiven Mortal sins, and have had the possibility of knowing the truth.:eek:

God Bless,
Pat
 
Can someone explain to me what this means?

A protestant friend said to me that Jesus Christ freed us from the bondage and consequence of sin. Now the freed us from bondage I don’t have too much of a problem with but freed us from the consequence?

Maybe I’m misunderstanding but that just sounded to me like saying now that we have Jesus we can do whatever we want and not be punished at all for it. That defies everything that’s in Scripture so I really think I must be misunderstanding what he meant. It’s pretty clear there are still consequences to sin! Even in THIS life so how come we assume there will be absolutely no consequences for our sin after this life?

That conversation is over (no apologetics needed) but I’m still left bothered by the statement he made and I’m really trying to understand (I didn’t ask him because it was off topic to what we were discussing at the time and I didn’t want to completely derail our discussion).

So, my Protestant brothers and sisters, what the HECK does someone mean when they say: Jesus freed us from the bondage and consequence of sin?

PS: I was Protestant but I never thought about what this term MEANS. I might have regurgitated it blindly once or twice but never really thought about it so I just don’t get it. 😊
Guys, all the person was saying was that we are free from the consequence of eternal damnation - which is the Spiritual death and death is the consequence of sin. And that by the power of God we can be freed from all bondage that sin has held us in in this life. I don’t know if the person believed in OSAS or not, but even Protestants who don’t believe in OSAS will say this because it is true. When we come to Christ, the bondage of sin is over. Yes we will still sin, but there is grace, mercy, and forgiveness. We cannot be held in bondage. Yes we will sin but if we abide in the forgiveness and redemption offered through Christ we will not be condemned to eternal damnation, ie. Hell. We can live a victorious life in Christ.

Now, since this person was a Protestant, he most likely does not believe in purgatory either.
 
What the person who said this means depends on the Protestant denomination he/she belongs to – either that, or what the person has decided the New Testament means through private interpretation. Every Protestant is his/her own ultimate authority in doctrine and morals, led by the Spirit – the much maligned Holy Spirit!:whacky:.

For me as a Southern Baptist, this would have meant OSAS – Once Saved, Always Saved. Once I was “born again” by “accepting Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior” and “asking Jesus into my heart,” all my sins – past, present, and future, were wiped out – the debt was paid. I was heaven bound, nothing could stop my destiny, and certainly not sin. Consequences of sin? Sin has no consequence, once it is forgiven. And ALL MY SINS WERE FORGIVEN, EVEN BEFORE I COMMITTED THEM. I was home free! Hallelujah! To doubt this was to deny the saving power of Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross; my sins were wiped out by His blood.

It was a shock to learn that every sin has consequences, even sins that have been repented and forgiven. I no longer live in a fantasy world of my own making, or the making of my Protestant teachers. Thanks be to God! The words of St. Peter come to mind:

“There are some things in them [St. Paul’s letters] hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures” 2 Peter 3:16 RSV.

Jim Dandy
 
Ah… that could be the position being set forth.

However… when you read the Bible people are ‘punished’ for sin in ways that aren’t always death and damnation. Sometimes we have to make right what we’ve done wrong, it doesn’t mean we’re not forgiven, it just means we have to repair the damage we’ve done. I consider that a consequence of sin.

But if that is the definition Protestants have of the consequences of sin then the statement makes some kind of sense. But I guess I just see sin differently. 🤷
I certainly agree that punishment for sin can occur in this life.
 
I certainly agree that punishment for sin can occur in this life.
We are as Luther said simul iustus et peccator, we sin until the day we die. some our actions of sin causes consequences such as if we smoke, it can cause cancer. But in spiritual matters, we are covered with Christ’s Righteousness in our baptism and as long as we have faith through Christ, we will not die the Big Death ( Spiritual Death ), we all have to die the little death and until that time, constantly need forgiveness through confession and Absolution and the Eucharist.
 
Originally Posted by Eutychus123
I always thought the “consequence of sin” was death and damnation.
Ah… that could be the position being set forth.

However… when you read the Bible people are ‘punished’ for sin in ways that aren’t always death and damnation. Sometimes we have to make right what we’ve done wrong, it doesn’t mean we’re not forgiven, it just means we have to repair the damage we’ve done. I consider that a consequence of sin.

But if that is the definition Protestants have of the consequences of sin then the statement makes some kind of sense. But I guess I just see sin differently. 🤷
What Eutychus123 says is exactly what it means: the wages (consequences) of sin is death, and it has nothing to do with the (false) doctrine of perseverance of saints, or OSAS.

It isn’t talking of temporal consequences, as you mention above. That, of course, is often the case, that we must in some way make reparations for or suffer the temporal punishments or sufferings of sin.

Jon
 
=Jim Dandy;8230600] For me as a Southern Baptist, this would have meant OSAS – Once Saved, Always Saved. Once I was “born again” by “accepting Jesus
Christ as my personal Lord and Savior” and “asking Jesus into my heart,” all my sins – past, present, and future, were wiped out – the debt was paid.
Hi Jim,

While this may be true in a manner of speaking, it is incomplete. Since 1 John tells us that, ***If *we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
All our sins, past, present and future are forgiven as a result of the passion, death and ressurection of Christ, but we must confess our sins. And there must also be effort toward renewal of life.

Jon
 
Can someone explain to me what this means?
Note that the statement is twofold. Let’s unpack both parts:

“Freedom from the bondage of sin.” That assumes that sin is a kind of slavery. What happens when you are freed from it? You don’t have to sin. One of the flaws I see in Catholic criticism of evangelical ecclesiology is the implied assumption that one is naturally going to sin as much as one can. I presume that the Catholics who make these kinds of arguments don’t really mean it the way it sounds, but to an evangelical that’s how it sounds. From an evangelical point of view, if you have Jesus in your heart you won’t want to sin. So the first part of the good news is that you don’t have to sin–at least, not constantly and habitually. You are free to love God and neighbor as you were created to do.

But, evangelicals (following Augustine) would say, in fact we will sometimes sin. We slip up. This is fairly uncontroversial–the main difference from Catholicism is that Catholics distinguish between venial and mortal sin. Catholics do believe, as I understand it, that everyone falls into venial sins from time to time.

So freedom from the consequences of sin, for evangelical Protestants, means that you don’t have to worry about God punishing you when you do slip up. This only makes sense if you understand the previous assumptions: the fully orthodox assumption sin is a kind of “slavery” (not, as Catholic criticisms sometimes seem to imply, the behavior in which any rational person will engage if not prevented by punishment), and the further assumption that a “true believer” won’t want to sin.

I think that the point Catholics need to think about is the evangelical assumption about what a “true believer” is. For many evangelicals, this involves “eternal security,” but not all. All evangelicals, though, assume that as long as you are a believer you have the basic desire to love God. This raises several questions:
  1. Can you have the faith that is a gift of God and not also have the gift of charity? Protestants (including Luther, who is much misunderstood by Catholics) have traditionally said no. You don’t need charity to perfect faith (this is the claim by Luther that leads to misunderstanding), but true faith will always come with charity. Catholics say yes. So for Catholics you can have faith (belief in everything God has revealed to be true), which is a supernatural gift of God, and yet not have love and thus not be saved. Evangelical Protestants understand by a “believer” someone who places their whole trust in Jesus for salvation, and traditionally teach that such a person will of course love God and neighbor. It comes with the territory, because the love of God is shed abroad in the hearts of all who believe. I think this is the key difference between Protestant and Catholic soteriology, and I find it a very difficult issue myself. Intuitively, I remain strongly attached to the Protestant position, and I have a lot of problems with what I see as the evangelistic consequences of the Catholic position. Catholics seem to have a lot of trouble using New Testament language about faith in Jesus–they seem to have an overly intellectualized understanding of what “faith” means from my point of view. And yet, when it comes to the technical definition of faith, Catholics can make a good Biblical case. I don’t think James is the real deal-breaker for Protestants (I find the focus on James a bit baffling, since I think traditional Protestantism has fairly good explanations of James). For me the real problem is 1 Cor. 13. Paul seems to speak of faith as something that one can have without charity, and which is totally useless in that condition. That’s precisely the traditional Catholic language about faith, coming from the very Apostle who elsewhere supposedly provides the grounding for the Protestant view. I remain hopeful that there’s a way to combine the strengths of both positions.
  2. Can you know whether you are a true believer (in the evangelical sense, i.e., in a state of grace) or not? Evangelicals say absolutely with regard to your present state, and eternal-security-believing evangelicals would say that this applies to your future state as well; Catholics traditionally say that you can have reasonable but not absolute certainty of your present state, and can never be sure that you will not fall away in the future. I think Catholics are right on this one, but this post isn’t primarily about what I believe.
  3. What then do we say about people who claim to have faith and don’t show its fruit? Typically, Protestants would say that such people don’t have faith. But this raises problems for the doctrine of assurance (discussed in point 2). I don’t think Protestants have ever had a good answer to this–it’s one of the places where I think Protestant soteriology breaks down hopelessly, both from an intellectual and a practical point of view. It is clearly possible to think one has faith in the Protestant sense and not have it, if one maintains with the Reformers and traditional Protestantism that faith always bear fruit in works.
Some modern evangelicals, faced with this conflict between their doctrine of assurance and the traditional understanding of works as the inevitable fruit of faith, have fallen into genuine antinomianism. They will claim that anyone who thinks they believe (or at least, anyone who still thinks they believe after an evangelical has “correctly” explained what believing is) really does believe. That requires them to say that lots of people are “weak Christians,” otherwise known as people who don’t live like Christians at all yet are still “saved.” Many evangelicals haven’t thought the matter through very carefully and live with the tension between the two principles.

Edwin
 
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