Freedom of Faith on Company Time?

[hasikelee]

And this kind of behavior shouldn’t be tolerated in the workplace. If one guy can’t eat at his desk, nobody can eat at his desk. Dress codes should be equally enforced.

But there are also plenty of Christians who are intolerant too. How many people say Catholics aren’t Christians? We do it to each other…traditionals and liberals, both sides have little barbs to shoot at the other. There’s intolerance all around us. Racial intolerance, gender intolerance, class intolerance.

As Catholics and Americans, I want us to rise about it.

daeve, you present another balanced and good post. Plenty of times people of all walks and races do something biased or uncharitable.

It still, however, seems that there are specific difficulties for the American Muslim in the workplace.

This makes sense as does not every group or person have individual issues? Think of Catholics in the medical profession. Right now it is a crazy place for anyone against birth control, abortion, euthanasia, assisted suicide, determining brain death, infanticide, etc. Thus it would seem that Catholics are particularly ornery or picky if all someone looked at was their participation in the science and medical community.

This is how I see those who practice the Muslim faith while in a retail or service industry. They do not want to present a neutral and professional image that is so crucial when dealing with many different people. Oftentimes, they will refuse to associate or talk with customers who are “different” or “abominable.” .

 

[Publisher]

In that case, Muslims should also show consideration to non-Muslims in Muslim countries, but instead treat them like 2nd class citizens and even persecute them for their faith!

You’re only looking at the Muslim’s side of it. You have no idea what the employer may have had to put up with.

Maybe it’s the clash of civilizations. Muslims are firmly rooted in the 7th century and we live in the 21st. Can you see any problems there? In this day and age, do you find it reasonable for a Muslim cabbie to refuse to take a blind person in his cab because of the seeing eye dog, since Muslims believe dogs to be unclean?

Are any other religions causing so much upheaval in the workplace as Islam is doing?

Muslims make no concessions. They want all the rights that they deny to others. If we continue to give in to all their demands, eventually they will have all the rights and freedoms and we will have lost ours!

The only words I could think of is “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you…”

What Muslims do in other countries doesn’t change what we who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth are to do or how we are to act…love…even though we are not loved in return…show kindness even though it is not given in return…pray for them…even though they curse us…that is the Way the Muslims need to see…not the way we’ve shown them so far…just my opinion.

 

[tundramom]

I haven’t read all the replies so forgive me if this is redundant.

I’m from Minnesota. This is a big thing here. There are Muslim cab drivers who have a special permit to pick people up at the airport. They won’t pick someone up if they have alcohol with them or if they have a dog. Even a dog for their handicap. Since this infringes on their beliefs, shouldn’t the people who are paying for the taxi service be able to get that service???

Not every taxi gets to go to the airport. It’s a highly laudable position… yet because the airport is supposed to adhere to the idea of hiring people from every background, it would be against the law for them to deny a Muslim the right to operate a cab…

Sticky. Everyone’s freedom of religion is infringed upon in this scenario.

in Christ
Steph

 

[Kadaveri]

For those interested, the Muslim ritual prayers take about 5 or at most 10 minutes to perform; not really any longer than a cigarette break anyway.

 

[daeve]

For those interested, the Muslim ritual prayers take about 5 or at most 10 minutes to perform; not really any longer than a cigarette break anyway.

Thanks, that’s really helpful. I, for one, don’t really know many Muslims and that’s been a question on my mind.

So it seems if you have a 15 minute break in the morning and one in the afternoon, you should be able to do this.

Other people have found ways to make their unique practices work. In New York and I’m sure other big cities, Orthodox Jews close their businesses early enough on Fridays to get home before sundown. They don’t drive or carry money on the Sabbath. I worked at an answering service, and the Diamond Exchange was one of my accounts. It was hard to explain to the people in Dallas why the stores were all closed at 3pm.

So for them, if working late on Friday or on Saturday is a problem, they work somewhere else.

It’s hard to have respect for things you don’t understand. Think about how other Christians say we worship the Blessed Virgin. Ever notice how most other people call her Mary? They think we’re totally wrong, but we understand it. I think I’m starting to ramble…so bye.

 

[Booklover]

For those interested, the Muslim ritual prayers take about 5 or at most 10 minutes to perform; not really any longer than a cigarette break anyway.

Does this 5 or 10 minutes include the ritual washing also? Below is a description of the wash ritual taken straight from an Islamic site. Or do you do a shorter version?

***Wudu’ ***(Ablution)
Before performing the ritual Prayer known as Salah, the Muslim’s body must be totally purified. To be in this state, one must perform the ritual washing known as *wudu’ *(ablution). The best way to learn *wudu’ *is to watch others do it. Here are the steps for wudu’:

1. Have the intention of purifying your heart.
2. Wash your hands, front and back, up to and beyond the wrist three times, right hand first, then left.
3. Rinse your mouth three times, scooping the water up with your right hand.
4. Wash your nose three times by sniffing water up the nostrils and blowing it out.
5. Wash your face three times.
6. Wash each arm up to and beyond the elbow three times, right arm first and then the left.
7. Pass the wet palms of both hands over your head and back. Then rub the inside and outside of the ears with the thumbs and forefingers.
8. Wash your feet up to and beyond the ankle three times, right foot first and then the left. Make sure the water gets between the toes by using your fingers.
   You are in this state of ritual purity of *wudu’ *until you urinate or defecate, pass wind, sleep, or become unconscious. If you do any of these things before or during the Salah, you must repeat the wudu’.
   islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/Worship/Prayers/article01.shtml

 

[Booklover]

The only words I could think of is “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you…”

What Muslims do in other countries doesn’t change what we who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth are to do or how we are to act…love…even though we are not loved in return…show kindness even though it is not given in return…pray for them…even though they curse us…that is the "Way the Muslims need to see…not the way we’ve shown them so far…just my opinion.

How Muslims treat others in countries where they are the majority may not matter to you, but here’s something worth thinking about.

"During an official meeting on Islamic-Christian dialogue, an authoritative Muslim person, speaking to the Christians participating, at one point said very calmly and assuredly: "Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you; thanks to your religious laws we will dominate you…"

catholiceducation.org/articles/politics/pg0056.html

Vickie

"

 

[Kadaveri]

I know Wudu might seem really long when it’s described written out like that Booklover, but it doesn’t actually take any longer than a minute, I’ve seen people do it in 30 seconds when in a rush infact. When you’ve been doing it everyday for years it becomes almost instinctual.

And what’ve you’ve quoted there ***is ***the long version. Just doing steps 5, 6, 7 and 8 once (instead of 3 times) is ok.

 

[daeve]

How Muslims treat others in countries where they are the majority may not matter to you, but here’s something worth thinking about.

"During an official meeting on Islamic-Christian dialogue, an authoritative Muslim person, speaking to the Christians participating, at one point said very calmly and assuredly: "Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you; thanks to your religious laws we will dominate you…"

catholiceducation.org/articles/politics/pg0056.html

Vickie

It’s not a matter of caring. Of course we care how other people are treated everywhere. That’s one of the nice things about Americans.

But we can’t let it affect how we treat other people. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and must love them, whether like them or not.

Christ tells us to love one another. The Constitution applies to everyone.

"

 

[heisenburg]

I just kinda want to say stop for a second…

Regardless of where you stand on the issue…

It is a Constitutional Right for this man to worship as his religion demands. As long as it is understood up front, no harm. Even if it isn’t understood up front, this man cannot be denied the right to worship. Again Constitutional right…

This goes both ways though…
IF you are catholic and you want to pray the Divine Mercy. You cannot be denied if you have daily mass. Anything that is done for your PRIVATE religious life, is fair game. NO ONE CAN SAY YOU CAN’T. That is a violation of YOUR religious rights.

If an employer is denying you the ability to go to daily mass, Ash Wednesday Services, Praying the Divine Chaplet… You have legal recourse and you stand on VERY solid grounds.

If your employeer refuses still, HE/SHE can and will be fined.

It is a constitutional RIGHT to worship how our religion demands… If you don’t agree with how someone else worships, look the other way. You have NO right to deny them the right to worship, just as they have no right to deny you

Am I talking about public Christmas Trees, or Winter versus Christmas break … NO… different story…

Regardless of you may THINK the courts will do, if you feel you are not being allowed to worship, any lawyer would Jump at the chance to defend you because it is such an easy case.

The Bill of rights is VERY clear on this.

Hope that helps

In Christ

 

[Syele]

Maybe it’s different where this woman lives but, School bus drivers I know have really flexible schedules with like 3 hour lunch breaks and it’s a part time job. I’m confused… did this Bus driver have to spent lots of time in the office? You’d think a job like that would leave plenty of time for prayer.

 

[Booklover]

Out of my own experience, however, I would like to add that I do get a distinct impression from those who practice the Muslim faith and it does border on a taste of intolerance. Even the current employees at my company seek to upset daily and weekly schedules with nothing short of publicly shrieking at their department manager until the demands are met. The dress code applies to everyone from corporate to frontline associate, accept these people. They can wear the attire how they want. When and where to eat food doesn’t apply to them either.

For those who practice this faith extremely, it demands the rest of the world to revolve around the practice. Accommodation is certainly not part of the equation.

Muslim cabbies are also abandoning their cabs to pray, refusing to transport anyone carrying a bottle of liquor, or blind people with seeing eye dogs.

Where does one person’s freedom begin and another one’s end?

 

[happygal]

Oh is all about tolerating with others who comes from different religion background. I am staying in a country with many different religion background. And of course i would say Muslim carries the most benefits of all others races. Like Friday all Muslim man will have to knock off for prayer , any dinner/lunch no pork please, if we brings dogs for outing we don’t flat down a Muslim cabby, for education fees, they pay lower then others…etc…etc…

So to me, is all about accomodating, then to complain and make more problem…It not a problem at all

 

[daeve]

Oh is all about tolerating with others who comes from different religion background. I am staying in a country with many different religion background. And of course i would say Muslim carries the most benefits of all others races. Like Friday all Muslim man will have to knock off for prayer , any dinner/lunch no pork please, if we brings dogs for outing we don’t flat down a Muslim cabby, for education fees, they pay lower then others…etc…etc…

So to me, is all about accomodating, then to complain and make more problem…It not a problem at all

On Fridays Orthodox Jews knock off around 3pm so they’re home by sundown, and no pork for them either, or shrimp or milk and meat…That’s no so unusual or extreme. Try to get a cabbie in New York to pick up a fare with a dog! Ain’t gonna happen. It’s hard for a pregnant woman to get a cab. If her water breaks in the cab, the cab is out of commission for several days to be sanitized. I know this one from experience! I am surprised that Muslims in Singapore pay lower tuition. I wonder what the reasoning is behind that? On the other hand, I got a college scholarship as a single mother over 40. So I got some preferential treatment too.

I don’t know what my point is, except that none of that seems extreme to me.

 

[happygal]

On Fridays Orthodox Jews knock off around 3pm so they’re home by sundown, and no pork for them either, or shrimp or milk and meat…That’s no so unusual or extreme. Try to get a cabbie in New York to pick up a fare with a dog! Ain’t gonna happen. It’s hard for a pregnant woman to get a cab. If her water breaks in the cab, the cab is out of commission for several days to be sanitized. I know this one from experience! I am surprised that Muslims in Singapore pay lower tuition. I wonder what the reasoning is behind that? On the other hand, I got a college scholarship as a single mother over 40. So I got some preferential treatment too.
I don’t know what my point is, except that none of that seems extreme to me.

**Hi Daeve

Is all about cultural difference and how one can adapt to it. Well as a Singaporean, from the day i was born…i have being taught about different reglion and their practise, what we can do and what we cannot do to avoid conflict…
The reason why Muslim have special benefits due to the facts that they usually have large family members with only the man working as the sole breadwinner, thus it is always difficult for them to nurse a big householdm, which is why their fees are lower then the rest of us.**

 

[daeve]

**Hi Daeve

Is all about cultural difference and how one can adapt to it. Well as a Singaporean, from the day i was born…i have being taught about different reglion and their practise, what we can do and what we cannot do to avoid conflict…
The reason why Muslim have special benefits due to the facts that they usually have large family members with only the man working as the sole breadwinner, thus it is always difficult for them to nurse a big householdm, which is why their fees are lower then the rest of us.**

Where I grew up, the CATHOLICS were the ones with big families, and most families had only one breadwinner. Mom was home, except in extreme circumstances, like the father was disabled or dead. Hardly anyone was divorced. Our parents struggled to send us to Catholic grade school and high school. I even went to Catholic college. Times change.

 

[Booklover]

Here’s the latest: Some Muslim workers at Target refuse to handle pork.

buzz.mn/?q=node/898

Why are Muslims taking jobs as cashiers at Target if their “religion” does not even allow them to handle a package of bacon?

What I found really chilling was the post by a Muslim commenting on the article.
Submitted by Hasarreef Mahogoff (not verified) on Tue, 03/13/2007 - 11:06am.

I never stop laughing at the inferior infidels as we cause them anger as we slowly take over their land. And you are so ignorant you don’t even see it happening. Seriously, you don’t deserve a country.

 

[daeve]

I wonder what would happen if this inferior infidel refused to scan condoms because Catholicism doesn’t premit artificial birth control? When I worked in retail, I rang up whatever the customer bought. Of course, back then Target didn’t sell Uzis. I may have had a problem with that.