I can not stress this enough - US and British Masonry is faith affirming. Continental Masonry (France and Italian) quite another thing - it denies faith, and it’s very secretive, and is not consistent with being a Christian in my opinion.
Perfectly worded. Thank you
Catholics get their strength in goodness from He who is good in the Saraments of the Church, not from a relativstic organization that equates Chirst with all other religions. I wonder how many nominal Catholic men would strive to better themselves if they knew that Christ is in the Most Holy Eucharist…
Freemasonry doesn’t equate Christ with anything. Being an organization that doesn’t discriminate based on religion, there is no talk of religion. Period. Christ is not mentioned.
I’m sure that if I had the time at the moment that I could look up at least five excommunicated Catholics that would attest to evils of the catholic church (whether evils exist or not). The voice of the few should not cloud the truth as spoken by the many. Some people choose to take the teachings in freemasonry as a philosophical addendum to their life and then some choose to equate it to a religion. Then there are those that even incorporate the teachings into a religion. Th fact remains that as of today and every moment in the past. Freemasonry has not claimed to be a religion and lacks the basic tenants of a religion.
Unfortunately, Cardinal DeNardo cannot override the doctrine promulgated by the CDF and Canon Law, which clearly states that Catholics are forbidden membership. Period. This wouldn’t be the first time a Cardinal/Bishop/Priest proclaimed something that wasn’t supported by Rome.
I’m curious about why you are so angry at freemasonry? It’s something I’ve never understood. I’ve known a lot of Masons and they have all been excellent people. And from my understanding, masons see masonry as a philosophy, not as a religion or a substitute for religion. They don’t tell people which religion to believe, which has given rise to the charge of indifferentism.
Perhaps you need to actually read their oaths, Which by the way is condemned in Sacred Scripture (Matt 5:34-37) to take an oath using God to “swear rashly, or profanely, in common discourse, and without necessity.” One line from their rituals, “Your trust being in God, your faith is well founded” without necessity of persons involved to declare Christ, this is spoken to any person of any religion thus making it an evil practice.
So, by your reasoning the voices of non-authorative people should not be taken as fact or basis in any given subject. So why should I, or anyone else, listen to you when the authorities within freemasonry are contradicting your misleading claims? You’re no authority yourself and yet the words of devote master masons say different.
I have read their oaths and I have taken them in the past. I don’t see this as evil since it says NOTHING profane or against religious doctrine. Also, we should first quote references that are closest to the source or as unbiased as possible when using them in arguments. The line that you are referencing states, “SINCE in God you put your trust, your faith is well founded.” This statement is to indicate the basis for your belief system. It is because you put your trust in God that your faith is well founded. It doesn’t go on to say anything further about faith or dogma. I put my trust in God daily. I am happy to admit that. I also have many other beliefs that go with my faith of course. But above all, I do put my trust in God to watch over me, to answer my prayers when He deems it necessary, etc. I don’t think that there is anything evil about this unless you can show me good evidence otherwise.
Well, since I am a master mason, I am an authority myself on the subject. I can say that I am as much of an authority on the topic as those that were referenced earlier. I don’t mean to say that you should listen to me any more than you listened to others. This is why this is a debate. I am stating that the CURRENT views (and to my knowledge past views) state that freemasonry is NOT a religion and NOT inherently evil. If freemasonry in ANY way threatened my religious beliefs then I would instantly disavow the fraternity and ask God for forgiveness. As of yet, there has been no conflict in either my beliefs, my soul, or my prayers. I am of course playing the side of defending freemasonry and using my position as an “authority” in it to state my position. I also do believe that I am more knowledgable on the topic then most here which is why I’m stepping in at all. Because this is a debate though, I am willing to debate the topics openly with evidence and statements until someone can come up with something actually convincing. I am not blindly defending freemasonry as others have been blindly against it. I have the knowledge and would like to see a healthy debate by those that have actual beliefs or evidence on the topic and don’t just come back with, “It’s evil because the Church tells me so.”
Cardinal DeNardo isnt just a priest that differs from your view. He is a prince of the Church and his opinion matters to me and a million Catholics that reside in his archdiocese. Until Cardinal DeNardo overturns his statement I think I will place my confidence in his leadership and example.
I can understand your stance on this and accept that you choose to follow his leadership. I think that one day this will be overturned once the Church takes a closer look at the fraternity and can come to the conclusion that freemasons pose no threat to the Church.
This also makes sense, except that the fraternity does not plot against the church. The very fact that the discussion of religion and politics is banned from masonic talks should be evidence to this. If we do not discuss religion, how can we plot against it?
I would challenge anyone to point out a lodge that does this… I am sure that there has been one or two wackos that have come across as a threat to the Church. I maintain the position that this is no longer (and for the most part never has been) the case. It seems that most anti-masonic views held by catholics come from this Cardinals beliefs and letter. I would be interested to see how this would change if that decision was rescinded.
Freemasonry states it is not a religion, yet you find it fair to define what it is. With this logic you would have to agree with what the protestants correctly state what the Roman Catholic faith is. You can not have it both ways. Its is just that simple, all the double talk will not get you out of that single point. If you say the RCC defines what Masons are and what they believe then you have to apply the same logic to what Protestants state about the RCC. Please don’t tell me that logic does not apply to one and not the other.
I refer you back to this post (forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9354005&postcount=18) where I quote the 1983 letter from the CDF that clarified the Canon Law with this (emphasis mine):
This isn’t “my view,” this is the official doctrine promulgated by the Vatican. No individual “Prince of the Church” can override official doctrine. If you want to follow the Church of Cardinal DeNardo, that’s your prerogative. I’ll stick with Rome. Only one cleric in the Church is guaranteed individual infallibility in the matter of faith and morals, and he happens to be the guy who wrote that letter.
No One Person (or Organization)