Freemasonry - A coven of warlocks?

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My Baptist bil is a mason…I am sure he is not a wiccan, and wouldn’t have anything to do with the masons if they were

However ,the masons are nothing I would encourage anyone to join…I think what ever they started out as, is pretty watered down now, into just another fraternal organization

I don’t see that they are really evil ,the Shriners do a lot of good for sick children

You have to be careful when you start throwing stones that you don’t become nothing more than a bigot about others…
 
My Baptist bil is a mason…I am sure he is not a wiccan, and wouldn’t have anything to do with the masons if they were

However ,the masons are nothing I would encourage anyone to join…I think what ever they started out as, is pretty watered down now, into just another fraternal organization

I don’t see that they are really evil ,the Shriners do a lot of good for sick children

You have to be careful when you start throwing stones that you don’t become nothing more than a bigot about others…
Redrosetea-

Your point about stone throwing is well taken! And well said!

Speaking of throwing stones- I’ve heard and seen ignorance/prejudice related to the K of C as well as many other organizations within Holy Mother Church. One of the most notable in recent years, due to a certain book and movie, has been the ignorance many suffer from concerning Opus Dei. Let’s not forget that there’s still plenty of anti-Catholicism and ignorance of our faith in the USA (probably other countries as well). I often feel all of us fail to correct our ignorance in one way or another- I don’t do it often enough, but I try. One of the priests I know threw the K of C out his parish because he said “All they ever do is sell Tootsie Rolls!”- and that certainly was ignorance of the first rate and a poor excuse for tossing out an organization that does much laudable work.

Speaking only for myself, I think it would help the Masonic-Catholic misunderstandings if church leaders as well as concerned laity and, yes, a number of Freemasons, would sit down and attempt to understand one another. It wouldn’t solve the problem, but it would be a good start, at least, towards peace coexistence as opposed to throwing mud at one another. And I’m sorry to say the Bishop of my own Diocese is as good a mud thrower as there is. (…directing mud at a number of matters and people beyond the Masonic issue…):rolleyes:
 
That’s nothing to boast about but rather be ashamed of. Its against Church teaching as you very well know and means you are in a state of mortal sin and cannot receive Holy Communion.
Thistle,

As always, thank you for your post.

I appreciate your opinion.

“I may not agree with what you say, but I would fight to the death for your freedom to say it.”
  • Brother Voltaire
 
You do realize that it is a mortal sin for a Catholic to join the Freemasons right?

No, a Catholic cannot join. Yes, it is a grave sin. The moral implications are damnation in eternal Hell. And no, if you are already a mason, you cannot remain a mason. Also, if you are converting to Catholicism and are currently a mason, you must leave the Freemasons and renounce them.
Holly,

Thank you very much for your posting. I appreciate it.

I know what the Church says about Freemasonry and have read the numerous Papal Bulls speaking out to the evils of Freemasonry. I believe that the Church is making a mistake or error in the comments it is making against the fraternity. During my time in masonry, I have not seen or heard masons talking bad about the Church, but I have heard a lot of Catholic aggression toward Freemasonry. It seems pretty one-sided and very unjust.

I do not believe it to be a sin to be a Freemason.

I would be strongly going against my conscience and better judgement to leave Freemasonry because the Church said so (without any solid reason or significant motive). I trust my masonic brothers far more than I trust my catholic brothers in questions of faith, character, justice, and resolve.

Thank you again for your posting.
 
I do not believe it to be a sin to be a Freemason.

I would be strongly going against my conscience and better judgment to leave Freemasonry because the Church said so (without any solid reason or significant motive). I trust my masonic brothers far more than I trust my catholic brothers in questions of faith, character, justice, and resolve.
Did you not take the link to Youtube on the EWTN Its an abundant life series? Its posted in this thread. The first link is broken, but a little further down, its embedded again.

If you surf it a bit, you can see the entire 40 or so minute program in 10 minute segments.

I challenge you to make the above statement after seeing the entire segment.
 
Please, folks, don’t condemn or disparage Freemasonry without knowing the facts- and I don’t mean the supposed “facts” you might hear from an organization like EWTN. I’m not condemning EWTN- it stands for many of the same things as I do, but they have a penchant for deciding what’s good and what’s not. The latter is God’s decision to make and not theirs or ours.
How about listening to the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith?

God’s decision has been spoken through the Church: Catholic Masons are in a state of grave sin and are not permitted to receive communion. Full stop, end of story. You have a choice: be a mason, or receive Christ’s body and blood in the Eucharist. There isn’t any middle ground.

Jeremy
 
I believe that the Church is making a mistake or error in the comments it is making against the fraternity.
That’s immaterial, really. The Church could be very mistaken about the nature of Masonry, and yet still its rulings and commands stand.
I do not believe it to be a sin to be a Freemason.
Then you cannot at the same time believe the Catholic Church to be the Church Christ founded, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Because the Church has spoken emphatically that membership in the masons constitutes grave sin. If it is wrong, then it cannot be trusted on matters of faith and morals.

Furthermore, it cannot be wrong: the Church has the power not only to loose and to forgive sins, but to bind and to retain sins. If the Church says membership in the masons is grave sin, then ipso facto it is sin, because the Church has the power to establish precepts and regulations which bind the conscience.
I would be strongly going against my conscience and better judgement to leave Freemasonry
All this proves is that your conscience is seared or improperly formed.
because the Church said so (without any solid reason or significant motive).
On the contrary, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, infallible voice the Church’s magisterium, has described in detail its motivation for making that declaration.
I trust my masonic brothers far more than I trust my catholic brothers in questions of faith, character, justice, and resolve.
Then you have at least informally defected from the Church.

Jeremy
 
I’m a Catholic and come from a long line of men and women who were involved in Freemasonry. I myself am a Masonic Lodge member. I’ve never seen or heard of anyone being a warlock, witch, or any action approaching a blood sacrifice of any kind! There are many Catholics in this area who are Masons as opposed to being Knights of Columbus.

Our Lodge involves itself with what we Catholics used to call the Corporal Works of Mercy- which, incidentally, many Catholics have forgotten about or do not know. That’s just the beginning.

I know of many Catholic pastors who have banned the K of C from their parishes for what I assume are good reasons. I’ve never seen a Masonic Lodge member turned away like that and in fact know of a number of priests who are Freemasons.

Please, folks, don’t condemn or disparage Freemasonry without knowing the facts- and I don’t mean the supposed “facts” you might hear from an organization like EWTN. I’m not condemning EWTN- it stands for many of the same things as I do, but they have a penchant for deciding what’s good and what’s not. The latter is God’s decision to make and not theirs or ours.
If you are a Freemason then you are in a state of mortal sin and cannot receive Holy Communion.
 
Did you not take the link to Youtube on the EWTN Its an abundant life series? Its posted in this thread. The first link is broken, but a little further down, its embedded again.

If you surf it a bit, you can see the entire 40 or so minute program in 10 minute segments.

I challenge you to make the above statement after seeing the entire segment.
YipYupYep,

Thank you for your posting.

If this is the link to the John Salza videos, I’ve seen all of his first appearance and the second part of the appearance he made the week before last.

Below is what I had posted on another thread about this subject.

Once again, thank you for your posting.
I just watched the EWTN episode with John Salza on YouTube. It is out there posted in 6 parts–unfortunately the latest one, from earlier this week, is not out there yet.

It was interesting and disappointing to see the story he puts forth for why he left and is now against Freemasonry.

**John starts off by saying that he was “solicited” to join Freemasonry. He referred to this as “the solicitation process.” **

I find it very hard to believe that the Freemasons were “recruiting” John to the extent that he would like us to believe. In all of my 32 degrees, I have not been made aware of any recruiting and or solicitation process. In fact, it is prohibited. In order to be a Mason, one must ask a Mason (sometimes more than once).

**John said that one of the reasons he got involved was for “business opportunities.” **

This is a very selfish reason to join Freemasonry and is not what the fraternity is about. He was asked about his motives before joining Freemasonry. The reply of business opportunities would not have passed muster. I feel certain that John would not have been admitted into Freemasonry if his reason for joining was “business opportunities.”

John went on to say, while revealing part of a degree ceremony, that he was asked to remove his ring, crucifix, and scapula. He posed the question of why would the fraternity ask him to remove these items of such great importance had and reminders of his faith.

John knows the ceremony that follows. I was surprised when he brought this up as an issue–especially knowing why he was asked to divest himself of all articles of metal.

Furthermore, I believe that the covenant of marriage and the belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior should always be present regardless of the presence of a piece of jewelry.

**John stated that Freemasonry rejects Jesus Christ because it does not teach that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior and the only way to heaven. **

Neither do the Boy Scouts, the Rotary Club, any Fortune 500 company, the US Government, etc. However I do not see John writing books about and speaking out against these organizations and how they are against Christ?

**John said that when first started questioning the stance of the Church because he wanted to be an apologist for Freemasonry. **

If John is as proficient in Freemasonry as he says he is (and I believe he is), he would know that on of the charges of the 1st degree is not to defend the fraternity. That’s right. Freemasons are tasked with turning to other cheek when others barrage insults and lies against them and the organization. An apologist for Freemasonry would be doing exactly what he has been told not to do…

I have discussed the topic of John Salza with Catholic men who were previously Freemasons and have left because of their discovery of the Church’s stance on the organization.

We share mutual feelings about the motives for Mr. Salza’s actions.

Please note that John discussed much more than the above listed items. If anyone would like to discuss one in particular, I would be most interested in doing so.

Thank you my brothers and sisters in Christ for taking the time to read my post!
 
YipYupYep,

I have discussed the topic of John Salza with Catholic men who were previously Freemasons and have left because of their discovery of the Church’s stance on the organization.

We share mutual feelings about the motives for Mr. Salza’s actions.
Yes, I was referring to John Salza.

About you mutual feelings. I would say it would be a pretty safe bet that your not feeling the love after what Mr. Salza has said. So then, what motives are you referring to? Like what? Besides his Witness. What motive?

YYY
 
Jeremy,

Thank you very much for your posting.
That’s immaterial, really. The Church could be very mistaken about the nature of Masonry, and yet still its rulings and commands stand.
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut on this. If someone see’s something that is wrong, I believe it is their duty to report it and or try to make it right. The line above makes it sound like it would be okay to follow false teachings?
Then you cannot at the same time believe the Catholic Church to be the Church Christ founded, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Because the Church has spoken emphatically that membership in the masons constitutes grave sin. If it is wrong, then it cannot be trusted on matters of faith and morals.

Furthermore, it cannot be wrong: the Church has the power not only to loose and to forgive sins, but to bind and to retain sins. If the Church says membership in the masons is grave sin, then ipso facto it is sin, because the Church has the power to establish precepts and regulations which bind the conscience.

All this proves is that your conscience is seared or improperly formed.
Wow… I really don’t know what to say about this accusation…

My conscience must be really seared or improperly formed because there are other Papal Bulls that I do not agree with. In fact I think they are wrong.

**Ad Exstirpanda **(May 15, 1252 by Pope Innocent IV) - the use of torture for obtaining a confession,
**Romanus Pontifex ** (January 8, 1455 by Pope Nicholas V) - permission to enslave and take land from non-Christians,
Cum nimis absurdum (July 14, 1555 by Pope Paul IV) - reinstates the economic restrictions on Jewish people in the Papal States
On the contrary, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, infallible voice the Church’s magisterium, has described in detail its motivation for making that declaration.
I would argue to the contrary. The latest statement issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was very brief and did not provide reasons.
Then you have at least informally defected from the Church.

Jeremy
Jeremy, thank you again for your opinion. I appreciate your posting.

Saludos hermano,
 
DallasTexas, you still can’t get around the ruling of the Church. You can be an obedient Catholic, or you can be a Mason. You cannot be both.

Jeremy
 
DallasTexas, you still can’t get around the ruling of the Church. You can be an obedient Catholic, or you can be a Mason. You cannot be both.

Jeremy
It’s interesting that you tell our friend DallasTexas he can’t get around a ruling of the Church. permit me to point out a few things-

First, Jesus told us “I am the way, **the truth, **and the life.” In other words, Holy Mother Church is NOT the pillar and repository of truth as you perceive her to be. Ultimately, truth resides with God and God alone.

Next, I don’t believe anyone on this thread who is a Mason as I am or disagrees with the Church on the matter of Freemasonry is trying to “get around” any ruling of the Church. It is a matter of intelligent obedience. In other words, if the Church, being a human organization is wrong (in this case wrong in light of Christ’s words about the truth), we have a duty as faithful Catholics to point that out as DallasTexas has tried to do. Let me give you another example of the Church’s “truth”-

My Dad had terminal cancer and as you might well imagine underwent untold suffering. Upon his last admission to the hospital he gave me power of attorney to sign a DNR (do not resucitate) order in the event of his expiration. He was in a Catholic hospital. In accordance with his wishes, the doctors composed the needed documents, but the Mother Superior of the Hospital presented the papers to me and proceeded to lecture me about the Church’s “truth” regarding matters of life and death- and that if I signed the order i would surely burn in Hell’s fire for eternity by disobeying the Church. I signed the DNR and would do the same today if faced with the same circumstances. I did not in any way disrespect the Church’s rulings on life (the Church admonishes us to allow the dying to go to the Father with dignity) nor do I feel I disobeyed the Church. Rather, I obeyed my Lord and my Heavenly Father- because above all else we are charged to show Christian mercy and compassion towards all. That certainly includes the dying! Dad passed on three days later with dignity and a smile on his face. As a man and a Catholic, I obeyed Christ- not a fallible institution like the Church. In the end for myself, God will judge me accordingly and I don’t think I’ll be in hell’s fire for performing an act of mercy and absolute love for my Dad.

Finally, in all my years as a Mason I’ve never been asked, told, or ordered in any way to disobey my Church. I also have never heard any Mason say, in any form, that Freemasonry is a religion in the sense the Holy Mother Church defines “religion”- and that is how the Church views Freemasonry- as a religion of sorts. The Church is wrong on that as well as the Bulls sighted by DallasTexas- a list to which i could add hundreds of more Church rulings that have contributed nothing but prolonged suffering, bloodshed, and angst among the peoples of the earth.

Is the church a “…Pillar of Truth…” as described a couple of posts ago? No. And again- no one human being or human organization can be.

Rob****
 
If someone see’s something that is wrong, I believe it is their duty to report it and or try to make it right.
Indeed. And the proper way to handle an issue like this, where you feel that the Church has made an error in judgment and unnecessary restricts its members from being Masons, is to work within the Church to change its perspective. You cannot do that while in a state of mortal sin, sacrilegiously receiving the Eucharist in opposition to the Church’s command. The Church has said in no uncertain terms the membership in the Masons constitutes grave sin. By that very precept (if not by the other reasons the Church outlines) it does constitute grave sin, even if no other reason were to apply.
The line above makes it sound like it would be okay to follow false teachings?
The Church’s precept is not a “false teaching.” It’s a disciplinary measure. Even if you think it’s unnecessarily restrictive, you are bound to abide by it as a precept of the Church, because the Church has that authority. The same applied in the first century when the Council of Jerusalem commanded Gentiles to “abstain from blood”: even a Gentile who thought that requirement was unnecessarily restrictive would sin gravely if he ate blood since, as a precept of the Church, it was bound upon his conscience to obey. When the restriction was later lifted, it would then become permissible again to eat blood (as it is today: blood sausages, for instance, can now licitly be eaten, since the risk of scandalizing Jewish Christians is so diminished).
My conscience must be really seared or improperly formed because there are other Papal Bulls that I do not agree with. In fact I think they are wrong.
I’m not talking about Papal bulls. They really have no relevance in this discussion.
**Ad Exstirpanda **(May 15, 1252 by Pope Innocent IV) - the use of torture for obtaining a confession,
**Romanus Pontifex ** (January 8, 1455 by Pope Nicholas V) - permission to enslave and take land from non-Christians,
Cum nimis absurdum (July 14, 1555 by Pope Paul IV) - reinstates the economic restrictions on Jewish people in the Papal States
What do you intend to prove here? That the Church can be mistaken about matters of discipline? No one disagrees with that. The issue here is that you think your disagreement with the Church on this particular matter of discipline justifies your rejection of the precept, and it does not. You are objectively in a state of grave sin and by command of the Church are not permitted to receive the Eucharist until you repent and confess your sin. You do not have final say on whether you can receive the Eucharist: the Church has that final say, and it has spoken on this matter of discipline. If you wish to correct the Church’s incorrect understanding of Masonry (if indeed it is incorrect), then you can do so two ways: by remaining a Mason, remaining in an objective state of grave sin, and not receiving the Eucharist while you work to change the Church’s opinion of Masonry (and hopefully not dying in the process), or by renouncing the Masons, receiving forgiveness for your sin, and receiving the Eucharist while working to change the Church’s opinion of Masonry from within.

Your situation is not unlike that of a divorced and remarried Catholic man seeking an annulment. He can choose to live as brother and sister with his putative wife while remaining in communion with the Church and receiving the Eucharist at Mass, or he can choose to presume the outcome of his annulment proceeding and continue to have relations with his putative wife while receiving the Eucharist in an objective state of grave sin. Even if a declaration of nullity is ultimately made, the fact remains that the Church bound upon his conscience to live as brother and sister while the investigation occurred, and he refused to do so, and sinned gravely by doing so.

The Church has the power and authority to bind things upon Christians. It has the power to say its flock, “You cannot do this thing, even if it is not innately sinful.” The flock does not have the power to say, “I disagree with the reasoning of the Church and will continue to do this thing because I do not believe it to be sinful.” Even if the action were not innately sinful, it becomes sinful to do by virtue of the Church’s command not to do it.
The latest statement issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was very brief and did not provide reasons.
The statement I pasted, made in 1983, not only included reasons (which I didn’t bother quoting) but was clarification an earlier statement which also included reasons. Apart from that, the Church does not have to include its reasoning for saying certain actions are impermissible. The letter written by the council of Jerusalem did not explain why Gentile Christians should “abstain from blood” but this did not absolve the Gentile Christians of their obligation to abstain from blood. Even if you disagree with the Church’s reasons or find them lacking, you still are bound to obey its judgments.
Jeremy, thank you again for your opinion. I appreciate your posting.
I wish I could say the same of yours, but I can’t. Fundamentally you’re fomenting the same sort of rebellion that priests who disagree with Humanae Vitae are doing, the same schismatic ideas that Luther promoted, and I abhor it. Personally, I know little to nothing of the Masons, and I’m fine with that. But when Catholics make public their rejection of the Church’s authority and their refusal to abide by its precepts, I must oppose them, because it is that same attitude which has caused grievous schism and scandal for centuries.

Jeremy
 
First, Jesus told us "I am the way, the truth, and the life." In other words, Holy Mother Church is NOT the pillar and repository of truth as you perceive her to be.

Except the Bible explicitly says that the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth in 1 Timothy 3:15. Recall that the Church is the “Body of Christ” and as such shares in Christ’s existence as the truth.
Ultimately, truth resides with God and God alone.
 
When I was in RCIA in '07-'08 I also joined the local Masons and made it up to the degree of Most Excellent Master. My main reason for joining? I’m an ex cop, most cops I have met are Masons and they told me about all the charitable work they do (and they do) but when I read that Catholics can’t be Masons, there was no conflict in me - I resigned . I confessed to a priest because I had received communion as a member of the Masoinic Lodge and thus I was in mortal sin. I also threw away all my Masonic items (membership card (shredded), lamb’s cloth, bible (not an accurate translation thus not a true word of God), trowel, pins, stickers, and whatever else there was). I know that I have been forgiven because I did my penance but if for some reason God condems me to Hell for joining, there is nothing I am able to do about it. I will stand proudly before him and state that yes I did join, I did re-nounce my membership and joined the K of C to continue my charitable work. All the arguements as to whether one can join and be a Catholic, with all the readinings/research that I have done…Canon Law, Catechism, Vatican Councel documentations…there are no clauses in anything that states “well if you really want to join just to do good deeds…go ahead and we, the church will look the other way”. Or if that is your thought in your mind…fine. So be it. GOD WON"T DO THE SAME THING! But I, as well as all the rest of us, one day will be judged…life is but a milisecond…eternity is a time without end…and purgetory WILL NOT cleanse you of this sin!
Because I joined I have accepted what might happen to me because I was ignorant of the guidance of the church (a situation I take care of as now I am a team member of the RCIA formation and thus I make sure this is brought up within the first three meetings of a new RCIA class).
I also believe in , “judge not, lest ye be judged”. To those who are catholics and members of masons…enjoy your time on earth. Do the good works of charity both through the church and the lodge. I, and I’m sure the others on this forum will pray for you and your soul to see the errors and hopefully God will show you the way. If not, blessing to you and have a good life.
 
Permit me, Jemfinch, to comment upon your lengthy post in which you attempted to tear me apart line by line.

I think you belong in a church where legalism and literalism regarding the Scriptures and any denomination’s magisterium would have a person following the courses of legalism and literal interpretation of Scripture be the norm. Next time you tear someone apart on this thread, please remember that Our Blessed Lord railed against those who followed every bit of the law as found in the scriptures- true holiness is found in Him and through Him to His Father in heaven, not in every jot and tittle of the law. Do read the Gospels again and you’ll find I speak the truth. Your attitude, like so many of the bible banging churchgoers in my part of the country seem to believe that THEY are the only folks bound for heaven. How wrong you are! I can’t quote chapter and verse from the Scriptures (I junked that after graduating from seminary and refusing ordination…), but this I know- we will be judged, in the end, on whether we showed Christ’s love towards others and how well we applied Christ’s teachings in our own lives. We won’t be judged on something as trivial as to what fraternal organization we belonged to on earth. (Matter of fact, judging others is sinful. You seem to pass judgment on me in your post- shouldn’t you confess your sin?)

Why don’t you try living by and for the love of Christ and writing as such on this or any post like it? It certainly beats the hateful, holier than thou attitude you seem to take towards anyone with whom you don’t agree. By the way, i spent years studying many of the items you quote, etc., please don’t take things out of context…Also, intelligent obedience isn’t rationalization- it’s route to finding out how best we can carry out any task that God places before us.

As for the gentleman who left Freemasonry and felt the need to confess, etc., I wish you well. If that is how you have experienced and found God, all well and good. BUT- remember there are those of us who walk in God’s light by a different route. As I don’t judge you, I pray you’ll stop judging those who are different- even if you only do so by inference.
 
if for some reason God condems me to Hell for joining, there is nothing I am able to do about it…Because I joined I have accepted what might happen to me
You honestly don’t need to worry about this. You’ve repented and confessed, and God has forgiven you. You shouldn’t worry about any consequence of your sins that have been forgiven 🙂

Jeremy
 
The Christian author Charles Kraft writes that Freemasonry will produce a curse that will be passed on to the children. For the skeptic, the Bible has many references to multigenerational curses. No, it does not seem fair, but it is what it is.

YYY
Can you tell me the title of the book where Kraft mentions this generational curse as a result of Freemasonry?
 
Permit me, Jemfinch, to comment upon your lengthy post in which you attempted to tear me apart line by line.
I didn’t tear you apart, of course. I simply challenged your argument. You can’t avoid that challenge by trying to turn this into a personal attack, because it simply wasn’t.

Furthermore, the line-by-line response is so that it can be seen and verified that I’ve responded substantially to everything you’ve claimed.
I think you belong in a church where legalism and literalism regarding the Scriptures
Where I belong has nothing to do with whether the argument I presented was true or false. While I was merely addressing your claims, you’re not actually attacking me, and ignoring my claims. It is you who is trying to tear me apart, and not vice versa.
Next time you tear someone apart on this thread,
I haven’t torn anyone apart; I’ve simply challenged the claims you’ve made. Why don’t you try addressing those challenges rather than attacking me?
please remember that Our Blessed Lord railed against those who followed every bit of the law as found in the scriptures-
No, Jesus didn’t. In fact, Jesus Himself followed every bit of the law as found in the Scriptures. What He railed against was people who didn’t follow the Scripture for the sake of their own understanding.
true holiness is found in Him and through Him to His Father in heaven, not in every jot and tittle of the law.
This doesn’t have anything to do with the argument at hand. We’re not talking about the law: we’re talking about things like feeding a dying man or enrolling in an organization that the Church with its authority says you must not enroll in.
Do read the Gospels again and you’ll find I speak the truth.
You presume that you’ve read the gospels more than I have.
Your attitude, like so many of the bible banging churchgoers in my part of the country
I don’t recall calling you a name; why do you call me one?
seem to believe that THEY are the only folks bound for heaven.
This has nothing to do with my post. You’re not even responding to it, you’re pulling a standard distraction technique I see in relativist/rebellious Christians: instead of focusing on the issue, you try to paint your opposition as exclusivist.
How wrong you are! I can’t quote chapter and verse from the Scriptures
And you’ll note that I rarely do, either. Still, presuming you know Scripture, you ought to be able to refer to it as needed.
but this I know- we will be judged, in the end, on whether we showed Christ’s love towards others and how well we applied Christ’s teachings in our own lives.
No argument there, but then, this isn’t at all related to our prior discussion, it’s just written to distract from the fact that you haven’t substantially addressed any of what I posted earlier.
We won’t be judged on something as trivial as to what fraternal organization we belonged to on earth.
We will be judged on our obedience to Christ’s bride, the Church. The analogy should not be difficult to understand: if my wife tells my sibling or child to do something, and he refuses, he’ll have me to deal with. Christ sits on the judgment seat of heaven, but He has put His bride, the Church, on earth to serve as the final court of appeal (see Matthew 18), and those who willfully and knowingly reject the decisions of His Church will have Him to contend with on judgment day. And believe me, His arguments will be far more compelling than any I can present.
(Matter of fact, judging others is sinful. You seem to pass judgment on me in your post- shouldn’t you confess your sin?)
I’m not “passing judgment” on you, I’m telling what the Church directly teaches, in an attempt to convince you to renounce your sin and save your soul. Furthermore, judgment isn’t always sinful: Paul himself judged sinners in the Church at Corinth and explicitly said so in his first epistle to them.
Why don’t you try living by and for the love of Christ and writing as such on this or any post like it?
The love of Christ is expressed in warning a sinner from the peril his soul is in. “My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
It certainly beats the hateful, holier than thou attitude you seem to take towards anyone with whom you don’t agree.
More distraction, no substance.
By the way, i spent years studying many of the items you quote, etc., please don’t take things out of context…
I haven’t. If you wish to claim so, defend your claim.
Also, intelligent obedience isn’t rationalization- it’s route to finding out how best we can carry out any task that God places before us.
What you’re doing is disobedience, not obedience. You’ve set yourself up as the final court of appeal, to judge the precepts of the Church by your own opinion, rather than accepting them as being for your good.
BUT- remember there are those of us who walk in God’s light by a different route.
And there are those who think they’re walking in God’s light but are in fact in an objective state of grave sin.

Jeremy
 
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