Freemasonry A Evil Group

[human_being]

Ha. Just a personal note. Winston Churchill was also a Free Mason. I was at the Freemason Temple in London last week and it was advertised outside…there were other big names too.

I suggest another website? Amazing Discoveries; by Professor Walter Veith. I’m afraid to say he is now Adventist. Though he used to be a Roman Catholic and an evolutionist and his wife used to dabble in the Occult…so he has been there and got the T shirt, so just maybe he knows what he is talking about…???

As I say this is just a personal observation. Michael.

It seems that if one wants to look for “idols” one may want to look towards freemasonry. But as catholics,I believe we have saints to look towards. And maybe they are even a type of “secular” “idol”. The freemason success stories.

 

[DallasTexas]

The encyclicals were written in the 1800’s and most of your list is 1900’s. there probably aren’t any catholics on the list. And I even think Pope JPII may have addressed the same topic a bit in 1983 or so.

Stephen F. Austin, Lorenzo de Zavala, Juan Seguin, and many more were catholic masons.

 

[human_being]

Stephen F. Austin, Lorenzo de Zavala, Juan Seguin, and many more were catholic masons.

What Year? I haven’t read that you can take communion and be a mason. I think it’s comparable to being an abortion doctor or very publicly divorced and not properly reconciled to the church yet still recieving communion. Maybe even comparable to being a xxx movie star and being catholic. It’s not permitted as far as I’ve read.

 

[human_being]

I have a book from a while back called Christianity And Freemasonry by William J. Whalen. The original copyright is 1958. Mr. Whalen was a nationaly known editor and expert on comparitive religion. He authored or co-authored a book or two for Our Sunday Visitor publishing. It speaks of the topic in this post. I do not think it is conspiratorial but takes a stance on the church’s side. There is alot of info in the book. I probably bought it from Leaflet Missal Comopany or from the EWTN catalog. He tries to show that a person cannot be a thought ful Christian and a thoughtful mason,but he never questions the sincerity of anyone who claims to be both; but he must question the consistency in giving allegiance to an exclusive religion such as Christianity and to the religion of naturalism propagated by the Masonic lodge.

 

[workingman]

It’s not a joke. Did you read any of the encyclicals which are law to catholics,listed in previous posts? I believe the freemasons owe favors and possibly,in my opinion, you may have never heard of alot of the people listed by you if they were not masons. I think special mason “favors” may have gotten alot of them in the spotlight as they are. I have even read of judges alowing criminals to go do to the brotherhood. If the pope says it’s evil in an encyclical,it’s evil. And I’m not sure that you can be a K of C (probably not) and a mason. You are not supposed to take communion if you are a mason.And I would hope most K of C like to take communion.

Ok I am not going to address the first question I am still reading them all. Now for your second statement can you back that up with fact? I would probably guess not so therefore it is speculation. Last I checked multiple places in life work on the basis of not always what you know but who you know. I have never heard of a judge letting anyone go on the basis of being a Mason. Can you prove with fact otherwise? Now as for the KofC and Masons I posted this article earlier. This is about Masons and KofC working together

time.com/time/magazine/ar…6270-2,00.html

So the pop’s say it is evil in a encyclical. The RCC also banned Nicolaus Copernicus books for about 300 years after he said that the sun was the center of the univers instead of the earth. Look at the basic principals of Masonry again and tell me it is evil.

Freemasons follow 3 great principles:

Brotherly Love - Every true Freemason will show tolerance and respect for the opinions of others and behave with kindness and understanding to his fellow creatures.
Relief - Freemasons are taught to practise charity and to care, not only for their own, but also for the community as a whole, both by charitable giving, and by voluntary efforts and works as individuals.
Truth - Freemasons strive for truth, requiring high moral standards and aiming to achieve them in their own lives.

And they believe that by following these main principles, that they may achieve higher standards in life. Freemasons believe strongly in providing charity to others, if not through monetary donations, then through undertaking voluntary work.
(source; ezinearticles.com/?What-Are-F…ns?&id=1978448)

I will address the last part at a later point still reading papal writings.

 

[workingman]

The encyclicals were written in the 1800’s and most of your list is 1900’s. there probably aren’t any catholics on the list. And I even think Pope JPII may have addressed the same topic a bit in 1983 or so.

If Masonry is evil per CC maby instead of writing a encyclical they should of put it in the CCC durring V2. People do not always view encyclicals as law. They are not.

 

[workingman]

What Year? I haven’t read that you can take communion and be a mason. I think it’s comparable to being an abortion doctor or very publicly divorced and not properly reconciled to the church yet still recieving communion. Maybe even comparable to being a xxx movie star and being catholic. It’s not permitted as far as I’ve read.

Compairing Masons to abortion doctor’s? This is a huge streach of a overactive imagination. Now comone xxx movie star’s need salvation to. Who would you prefer to preach to the chior. You want to help what is persieved as sin and siners you need to wallow with them. Is there a encyclical about xxx movie starts not able to be Catholic?

 

[jam070406]

(emphasis mine)

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

**Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. **

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.

Joseph Card. RATZINGER
Prefect

• Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.
  Titular Archbishop of Lorium
  Secretary

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

 

[workingman]

(emphasis mine)

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance in due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

**Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic association remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. **

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 1981 pp. 240-241; English language edition of L’Osservatore Romano, 9 March 1981).

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.

Joseph Card. RATZINGER
Prefect

• Fr. Jerome Hamer, O.P.
  Titular Archbishop of Lorium
  Secretary

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

Maby they should look at it again.

 

[jam070406]

Maby they should look at it again.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Brother2]

Plenty of talk about Freemasons. Once again this is a personal observation and one that may or may not shock, probably you have heard it before, and I am only repeating what I have heard and what my research has thrown up…hope it is not a lynching crime…I think it could be actually…so sorry to those I offend…but I am only joining in the discussion and mean no harm to anyone…

I shall say a Word, a Name of a Catholic Organization…Jesuits…one called by Rev. Ian Paisley in Northern Ireland, the Roman Gestapo…sorry…or the Roman secret service…??

Infiltrating many organizations, Protestant ~Churches etc, ha, some Adventists say they have infiltrated our Church…

…I have heard it said that…help!..the Jesuits started the Freemasons (also the Knights Templar of course who were Catholic I believe)…there I have said it…I hear the possy coming up the road…when the Pope was taken prisoner in 1798 by General Berthier, Napolean’s mate…the Roman influence was at an end for a while…so set up another organization who can carry on Roman influence in the world…and even better one that we will condemn! as anti Catholic and evil…and then when the Pope takes power again we will two powerful organizations to spread Roman power and influence…

It is an interesting idea at least from the Protestant end…?? Good for Rome to when I think about it…crumbs what hope have anyone else…???

Only written for discussion purposes and joining general craic, as the Irish say…Michael.

 

[jam070406]

Plenty of talk about Freemasons. Once again this is a personal observation and one that may or may not shock, probably you have heard it before, and I am only repeating what I have heard and what my research has thrown up…hope it is not a lynching crime…I think it could be actually…so sorry to those I offend…but I am only joining in the discussion and mean no harm to anyone…

I shall say a Word, a Name of a Catholic Organization…Jesuits…one called by Rev. Ian Paisley in Northern Ireland, the Roman Gestapo…sorry…or the Roman secret service…??

Infiltrating many organizations, Protestant ~Churches etc, ha, some Adventists say they have infiltrated our Church…

…I have heard it said that…help!..the Jesuits started the Freemasons (also the Knights Templar of course who were Catholic I believe)…there I have said it…I hear the possy coming up the road…when the Pope was taken prisoner in 1798 by General Berthier, Napolean’s mate…the Roman influence was at an end for a while…so set up another organization who can carry on Roman influence in the world…and even better one that we will condemn! as anti Catholic and evil…and then when the Pope takes power again we will two powerful organizations to spread Roman power and influence…

It is an interesting idea at least from the Protestant end…?? Good for Rome to when I think about it…crumbs what hope have anyone else…???

Only written for discussion purposes and joining general craic, as the Irish say…Michael.

:hypno:

Step awaaaaay from the Jack Chick tracks.

 

[human_being]

Ok I am not going to address the first question I am still reading them all. Now for your second statement can you back that up with fact?

Here is the most recenthttp://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850223_declaration-masonic_articolo_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_08121892_custodi-di-quella-fede_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18901015_dall’alto-dell’apostolico-seggio_en.html
These are 3 documents from the vatican.

 

[human_being]

Now for your second statement can you back that up with fact? I would probably guess not so therefore it is speculation. Last I checked multiple places in life work on the basis of not always what you know but who you know. I have never heard of a judge letting anyone go on the basis of being a Mason. Can you prove with fact otherwise?

For now I can just give this as quoted from Christianity and Freemasonry by William J. Whalen. “PAGE 169 bottom paragraph”
“Not that possible preferential treatment of Masons by their brothers is unknown. In fact,secular critics of the lodge such as Stephen Knight have asked how well a democratic society can function if judges and jurors, detectives and policemen, tax collectors and personnel managers have SWORN to give preferential treatment to fellow lodge members.” …It is followed by a footnote #1 notating a book or something called The Brotherhood by Stephen Knight. …The revised edition copyright for Whalen’s book is 1987.

I also have a pamphlet which I think is published by Tan (they have some catholic writings) which is possibly called something like Freemasonry’s Vendetta on the Catholic Church or something similar. I don’t have it with me but I’ll look for it. That may have the incident I’m refering to about a judge letting a fellow mason off the hook as one of these treatments.But you may look at it as speculation until I find it.
Whalen ends his book with " Dialoggue between Christians and Masons can lessen the hostilities between these groups. Cooperation in civic and charitable works can be encouraged. Christians must respect the decision of others to affiliate with the lodge, but more and more Christians have come to realize that the Great Architect of the Universe is not the God Jesus taught them to call Our Father."
But the 1983 Declaration listed above states Catholics enrolled in Masonic associations are involved in serious sin and may not approach Holy Communion. That was signed by Pope Benedict XVI before he became Pope.

 

[human_being]

Compairing Masons to abortion doctor’s? This is a huge streach of a overactive imagination. Now comone xxx movie star’s need salvation to. Who would you prefer to preach to the chior. You want to help what is persieved as sin and siners you need to wallow with them. Is there a encyclical about xxx movie starts not able to be Catholic?

I’d say all are involved in serious sin and should not approach Holy Communion as previously posted in the 1983 Declaration posted above.

 

[DallasTexas]

Because Dallas complained that he preferred a government for the people by the people and not a government keeping with God’s Divine law, as Pope Leo proposed.

I know you feel the same way. But even you can be honest enough to concede that abortion is against Divine law, no?

(dang it…I said I was done with this thread)

Jam070406,

Thank you again for your post.

I think I stick with democracy… as opposed to one man’s opinion.

Thanks again,

 

[joe_clark]

In matters of faith, morals, and Church law it is.

Exactly, the people change, the church changes it’s position and view when it sees fit and then they change the laws. But does this change the people they speak of before during or after the process? This is why it is an area odf concern where and how other policies are formulated ect.

 

[workingman]

Here is the most recenthttp://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850223_declaration-masonic_articolo_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_08121892_custodi-di-quella-fede_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18901015_dall’alto-dell’apostolico-seggio_en.html
These are 3 documents from the vatican.

I had this all responded to and lost it. I will try again stupid computer login problems

 

[workingman]

Here is the most recenthttp://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850223_declaration-masonic_articolo_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_08121892_custodi-di-quella-fede_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18901015_dall’alto-dell’apostolico-seggio_en.html
These are 3 documents from the vatican.

Now for the most recent. I find that they did not reevaluate Masonry at all. The Church simply restated 100+ year old writings. They did not research Masonry or give it another look. They kept to there negative opinions. This is my opinion.

Now for CUSTODI DI QUELLA FEDE
I can neither conferm nor condem the opening paragraphs. I will try to make this points by paragraph instead of a blanket statment. The first fault is this is 117 years old aproximatly.
P2-3; This is suposed to be with problems contained in Italy. They do not state that this is a problem world wide.
P4;So Masonry has invaded the Chruch ? Masonry has no desire to take over the Church or its other institutions. Masonry has squandered the Churches treasury? I would love to see profe of this.
P5;Masons welcome all religions. The only thing Masonry will not accept is athiesm. Masonry directs there members to seek out God thruogh the Church. When did they ever promote a revolt against a proper Church athority.
P6;This paragraph sounds like complete paranoya to me.
P7-8; Not even true; Masonry works for the greater social good
P9-10;Masonry is not a enemy of county, God or Church. Our country had many founding fathers that were masons. There a principles of Masonry in our founding. Masonry embraces God and directs its members to seek God. The Church made a enemy of Masonry not the other way around. From my experience Masonry has never said one bad thing about the Church.
Skiping to 13-16; I find nothing to comment on in 13 but 14 sounds like the Church wants to regulate philanthropic societies I find that in and of it self. In 15 what a great message for a Christian to put forth. If one is even suspected of having Masonry ties one should break off all contact and not associate with them. One needs to learn to deliver the message to those who the Church deams that need to hear it. How is one suposed to do that if they close them out.
P17-22; Realy? Masonry is controling the schools. Masonry wants to enslave the Church. More obserd paranoya. I do not see any facts of this.

This writing is completely out of date and the Church needs to take a good long hard look at reevaluating Masonry. What is be accused of is not what happens in fremasonry.

 

[jam070406]

Now for the most recent. I find that they did not reevaluate Masonry at all. The Church simply restated 100+ year old writings. They did not research Masonry or give it another look. They kept to there negative opinions. This is my opinion.

Now for CUSTODI DI QUELLA FEDE
I can neither conferm nor condem the opening paragraphs. I will try to make this points by paragraph instead of a blanket statment. The first fault is this is 117 years old aproximatly.
P2-3; This is suposed to be with problems contained in Italy. They do not state that this is a problem world wide.
P4;So Masonry has invaded the Chruch ? Masonry has no desire to take over the Church or its other institutions. Masonry has squandered the Churches treasury? I would love to see profe of this.
P5;Masons welcome all religions. The only thing Masonry will not accept is athiesm. Masonry directs there members to seek out God thruogh the Church. When did they ever promote a revolt against a proper Church athority.
P6;This paragraph sounds like complete paranoya to me.
P7-8; Not even true; Masonry works for the greater social good
P9-10;Masonry is not a enemy of county, God or Church. Our country had many founding fathers that were masons. There a principles of Masonry in our founding. Masonry embraces God and directs its members to seek God. The Church made a enemy of Masonry not the other way around. From my experience Masonry has never said one bad thing about the Church.
Skiping to 13-16; I find nothing to comment on in 13 but 14 sounds like the Church wants to regulate philanthropic societies I find that in and of it self. In 15 what a great message for a Christian to put forth. If one is even suspected of having Masonry ties one should break off all contact and not associate with them. One needs to learn to deliver the message to those who the Church deams that need to hear it. How is one suposed to do that if they close them out.
P17-22; Realy? Masonry is controling the schools. Masonry wants to enslave the Church. More obserd paranoya. I do not see any facts of this.

This writing is completely out of date and the Church needs to take a good long hard look at reevaluating Masonry. What is be accused of is not what happens in fremasonry.

Not sure who you’re trying to convince, but you’ve certainly convinced yourself. In fact, you’ve done a total 180.
You sound like the theologians in the 60’s that bashed the Pope and said the Church’s stance on contraception is out of date.
Oh well, thank God for His Church who stands for Truth!