freemasonry

[catharina]

I saw nothing in that article that refutes anything I had said. I only saw in it blatant falsehood about what Mormons believe. That is the best that Catholic Answers can do.

zerinus

Awww - it’s not necessarily the “best” CA can do, but it’s way more than sufficient.

**
"The fact is that the only church with an unbroken historical line to apostolic days is the Catholic Church. Even many Protestants acknowledge this, though they argue that there was a need for the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century.

As non-Catholic historians admit, it can be demonstrated easily that early Church writers, such as Ignatius of Antioch, Eusebius, Clement of Rome, and Polycarp, had no conception of Mormon doctrine, and they knew nothing of a “great apostasy.”

Nowhere in their writings can one find references to Christians embracing any of the peculiarly Mormon doctrines, such as polytheism, polygamy, celestial marriage, and temple ceremonies. If the Church of the apostolic age was the prototype of today’s Mormon church, it must have had all these beliefs and practices. But why is there no evidence of them in the early centuries, before the alleged apostasy began?"**

A lie built on a lie is a lie, even if promulagted by a 14 yr-old boy named Joseph Smith.

Was he deliberately lying or flat-out delusional?
In either circumstance, a lie is a lie - and a delusion is a delusion.
Neither one can stand as the truth.

 

[rinnie]

Hell rinnie,

Hope you’re doing well.

What was the Church’s previous stance on cremation?

Thank you,

Here is what a person who owns a funeral home told me. Now this is what he told me remember, now he is Catholic and he just buried my Dad in March, So this is pretty accurate because I just asked him. I figured hey if Pap can die we are all on our way out. We all figured him for triple numbers, so hey it goes to show what Pap said when the Good Lord calls its his time not ours. Anyway this is what the funeral home director told me According to the church (but please check on this) A Catholic may be cremated but here is the biggie the remains must be kept together. So we cant be scattered. So my mom and dad have one empty lot, my husband and I for sure are going to be buried there, and maybe my sister and her husband. Can get back to you on how many in a plot. Me and my mom are going to pick out Paps stone on Wed. will be a pretty sad day, But we all get our turn. So anyways thats what i am told yes can be cremated but not scattered. But really doesnt that make sense, think about it how about someone that was burned alive, no remains. Im sure they got to heaven right. But hey that just my logic. Hey gotta roll pens are on. In pittsburgh thats a big thing. Next to the steelers of course. God Bless take care. Please say a extra prayer for my Mom and me, shes taking it bad.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Awww - it’s not necessarily the “best” CA can do, but it’s way more than sufficient.

**
"The fact is that the only church with an unbroken historical line to apostolic days is the Catholic Church. Even many Protestants acknowledge this, though they argue that there was a need for the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century.

As non-Catholic historians admit, it can be demonstrated easily that early Church writers, such as Ignatius of Antioch, Eusebius, Clement of Rome, and Polycarp, had no conception of Mormon doctrine, and they knew nothing of a “great apostasy.”

Nowhere in their writings can one find references to Christians embracing any of the peculiarly Mormon doctrines, such as polytheism, polygamy, celestial marriage, and temple ceremonies. If the Church of the apostolic age was the prototype of today’s Mormon church, it must have had all these beliefs and practices. But why is there no evidence of them in the early centuries, before the alleged apostasy began?"**

A lie built on a lie is a lie, even if promulagted by a 14 yr-old boy named Joseph Smith.

Was he deliberately lying or flat-out delusional?
In either circumstance, a lie is a lie - and a delusion is a delusion.
Neither one can stand as the truth.

Yep, Galatians 1:8 is very clear on this point …

*But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! *

… pretty much shooting down the Mormon faith & beliefs.

 

[ralphinal]

For the record, the Church used to forbid creamation except for in the case of a sever emergency where public health required it. In other words, too many bodies to bury before disease. It was because of various sects scattering the ashes in denial of the resurection on the last day. Close to home, Santa Anna typically creamated his victoms and scattered them as an insult.

Now, that particular heresy is all but dead. The Church will allow creamation, but as noted, the ashes must be kept together and if I am not mistaken, intered in some form, either burried or in a vault.

FreeMasons should take hope from this. End anything resembling a heresy or a sin and the Church can relax her ban upon you.

 

[rinnie]

DallasTexas here is what i found. Father John Dietzin explains it was banned in May 1886 noting the anti Religious Masonic Motivation behind the movement. 1918 Canon law continued that ban because cremation was a rejection of the Christian belief in inmortality and resurrection.

Now he church premits it as long as there is no denial of faith and resurrection fo the body (no 2301)

Actually the church was never against cremation but discuraged it because of the REASONS people used to justify it.

But now the Church believes those who request it arent doing so out of desire to deny bodily resurrection or deframe church teaching.

So take that for what you get out of it, so my understanding is the Masons used it for that purpose, thats why the church denied it, but then say hey its been around forever, as long as you use it for the right reason and believe in resurrection, that we will do it. so just another way the Masons tried to attack the Catholic Church is what i see.

Cremation was the normal custom in the ancient civilized world except in Egypt, Judea, and China.

So thats how i see it the masons used it to deny resurrection, so the church banned it totally because of them. then said if you do it for the right reasons then there is no problem. Hope that helped. THere is a book that is written on it, it may help you better than me. But thanks for asking the quesion i didnt know that myself. another proof about how masons attacked the Church. OR tried to anyway.

 

[DallasTexas]

We’ve had this discussion before. If the church has ERRORED and is leading the faithful astray with FALSE teaching then it either can not be the Church that Christ established because Jesus said that the gates of hell would not over come HIS church.

Either that, or we can not believe in the promises of Christ.

Which one do you think it is?

Of course, there is the third option that the Church is correct and you are the one who errored.

Sir Knight,

Thank you for your posting.

We have indeed had this discussion before. I still do not think that the Church making an error means that the gates of hell have over come His Church. I don’t remember any promise of perfection.

I pray that the Church will change It’s position on Freemasonry and see the error in condeming something that is not a mortal sin.

Sincerely,

 

[DallasTexas]

Two things:

1. I’m also from Alabama and the Masons there are definitely 80% Klansmen or descendants of Klansmen

Brazzy,

Wow!

That’s a very interesting claim. Please submit your source of that information.

Thank you,

 

[DallasTexas]

Here is what a person who owns a funeral home told me. Now this is what he told me remember, now he is Catholic and he just buried my Dad in March, So this is pretty accurate because I just asked him. I figured hey if Pap can die we are all on our way out. We all figured him for triple numbers, so hey it goes to show what Pap said when the Good Lord calls its his time not ours. Anyway this is what the funeral home director told me According to the church (but please check on this) A Catholic may be cremated but here is the biggie the remains must be kept together. So we cant be scattered. So my mom and dad have one empty lot, my husband and I for sure are going to be buried there, and maybe my sister and her husband. Can get back to you on how many in a plot. Me and my mom are going to pick out Paps stone on Wed. will be a pretty sad day, But we all get our turn. So anyways thats what i am told yes can be cremated but not scattered. But really doesnt that make sense, think about it how about someone that was burned alive, no remains. Im sure they got to heaven right. But hey that just my logic. Hey gotta roll pens are on. In pittsburgh thats a big thing. Next to the steelers of course. God Bless take care. Please say a extra prayer for my Mom and me, shes taking it bad.

Rinnie,

I hated to hear about your loss. You and your family are in my prayers.

Thank you,

 

[DallasTexas]

… and in Chicago, masonry might as well be Klan
since it’s anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish and anti-black …

that equals the total Klan platform.

Catharina,

Thank you for your posting.

I cannot speak to the Klan’s platform.

However Freemasonry is neither anti-Catholic, nor is it anti-Jewish, nor is it anti-Black. Neither in Chicago nor any where else in the USA.

What you have said is a lie.

Sincerely,

 

[ralphinal]

The Klan/Mason connection in Alabama is not one with numbers published, as both groups do not print rosters. It is a visible one, as I have posted before. All of the great segregationists in ALabama history were proud Freemasons. There is no denying that. I would bet that the FBI and the Southern Poverty Law center can provide information. I will try to contact them.

With this issue, it is one of birds of a feather. If a lodge has racist tendencies, the members will blackball anyone who is not exactly like them. This leads to more segregated lodges. I have yet to see any proof that this form of segregation is discouraged by Masonry, after all, current members elect the new ones. I think that no reason is given for a black-ball. After a while, minorities no longer apply.

You can say that Masons are accepting people. IN Alabama, there is no proof of that. The current governer belongs to a white-only lodge. An ex-roommate of mine from school does to, and he is proud to say it.

 

[catharina]

Catharina,

Thank you for your posting.

I cannot speak to the Klan’s platform.

However Freemasonry is neither anti-Catholic, nor is it anti-Jewish, nor is it anti-Black. Neither in Chicago nor any where else in the USA.

**
What you have said is a lie.**

Sincerely,

Thank you for your posting.
The Klan’s platform is one of public record.
Perhaps you can take some time from your masonic absorption and review the Klan data.

Masonry (as I’ve known it in Chicago) has fully supported the Klan’s goals.

You accuse me of lying.
That would have to mean that your certainty is God-like.
Are you claiming to be God?
The other option is that you’re aligned with the ‘prince of lies.’

I state the truth as it has been known in my life.
You cannot, in good conscience, call that a lie.
You can only disagree with my perception.

However, when one repudiates and rejects Church Teaching, one is liable to err quite often.
I know that I haven’t lied - and I see that you continue to suit yourself.

 

[zerinus]

Thank you for your posting.
The Klan’s platform is one of public record.
Perhaps you can take some time from your masonic absorption and review the Klan data.

Masonry (as I’ve known it in Chicago) has fully supported the Klan’s goals.

You accuse me of lying.
That would have to mean that your certainty is God-like.
Are you claiming to be God?
The other option is that you’re aligned with the ‘prince of lies.’

I state the truth as it has been known in my life.
You cannot, in good conscience, call that a lie.
You can only disagree with my perception.

However, when one repudiates and rejects Church Teaching, one is liable to err quite often.
I know that I haven’t lied - and I see that you continue to suit yourself.

Instead of trading accusations, why don’t you provide evidence for your claims? I am of the opinion that every church, religion, organization, or society of men aught to be permitted to define itself, rather than be defined by its enemies, or by those who oppose it. I let Catholics define Catholicism for me, Moslems define Islam, Mormons define Mormonism, and Masons define Masonry. The United Grand Lodge of England may arguably be regarded as the Mother Lodge of Masonry in the world. There are other breakaway groups that identify themselves as Freemasons, that are not recognized by that lodge. I am not interested in those. I regard genuine Freemasonry as the classic one that comes under the umbrella of that Grand Lodge. Their website is as follows:

ugle.org.uk/

If you go to their website, there is a tab at the top that says “All About Masonry”. If you move your mouse pointer over that tab, a menu opens up which gives you official information about them. I recommend you to take a few moments to study all of that information. If you do, you will find that not only Masonry adheres to the highest moral standards, but that they would expel anyone (or any lodge) that would fall short of those standards. That I consider to be the true nature of Freemasonry as defined officially by the Masons. And I see nothing dishonorable about that. If you have evidence about Masonry that is contrary to that, you should bring it; or else refrain from making false and unsubstantiated allegations. I always believed that it was considered a sin for a Catholic to bring false accusations about people without any evidence to support it.

zerinus

 

[DallasTexas]

… and in Chicago, masonry might as well be Klan
since it’s anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish and anti-black …

that equals the total Klan platform.

Catharina,

Thank you for your posting.

I cannot speak to the Klan’s platform.

However Freemasonry is neither anti-Catholic, nor is it anti-Jewish, nor is it anti-Black. Neither in Chicago nor any where else in the USA.

What you have said is a lie.

Sincerely,

Thank you for your posting.
The Klan’s platform is one of public record.
Perhaps you can take some time from your masonic absorption and review the Klan data.

No thank you. Not interested.

Masonry (as I’ve known it in Chicago) has fully supported the Klan’s goals.

No it hasn’t.

You accuse me of lying.

Yes (see the above postings to be specific).

That would have to mean that your certainty is God-like.

No it wouldn’t.

Are you claiming to be God?

Nope. I’ve never claimed omniscience nor perfection–I’m very far from both.

The other option is that you’re aligned with the ‘prince of lies.’

No I’m not aligned with the “prince of lies.” Funny you say such a thing when you’re the one who lied.

I have to admit that I am not following your logic with this. One is either God or aligned with the prince of lies?

I state the truth as it has been known in my life.

You cannot, in good conscience, call that a lie.

I can call a lie a lie in good conscience.

Calling a truth a lie or a lie a truth is something I would not be able to do in good conscience.

You can only disagree with my perception.

Call it what you want; rationalize it how you want. Where I come from, we call it like it is.

Your above statement saying that Freemasonry is anti-Catholic, anti-Jewish, and anti-Black is a lie.

However, when one repudiates and rejects Church Teaching, one is liable to err quite often.

I am far from perfect. You can easily point out many “specks” in my eye.

I know that I haven’t lied - and I see that you continue to suit yourself.

If you conscience is okay with your intentional action, then you have bigger things to worry about than this thread.

Sincerely,

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Let’s get back on track please.

God bless-

Rachel

 

[catharina]

On track: dallas rejects Church Teaching re masonry.
On track: zerinus, a Mormon, has fun with dallas’s postion.
On track: dallas continues to call me a liar. (Tough.)

My experience with masons in Chicago is my experience.

I can’t imagine living so long that I would check into any masonic thread re masonry.
I’m perfectly peaceful with all Church Teaching on masonry; it confirms what I’ve known and seen in the course of my lifetime.

 

[zerinus]

On track: zerinus, a Mormon, has fun with dallas’s postion.

If I became a Mason will you take me more seriously?

zerinus

 

[DallasTexas]

Let’s get back on track please.

God bless-

Rachel

Rachel,

Point well taken. Thank you.

Sincerely,

 

[Sir_Knight]

Sir Knight,

Thank you for your posting.

We have indeed had this discussion before. I still do not think that the Church making an error means that the gates of hell have over come His Church. I don’t remember any promise of perfection.

I pray that the Church will change It’s position on Freemasonry and see the error in condeming something that is not a mortal sin.

Sincerely,

Then what does it mean to YOU to not have the gates of hell overcome the church? What does it mean that the church will be guided by the Holy Spirit in all truths?

 

[distracted]

Memebership in freemasonry used to mean excommunication for a Catholic. These days you are not excommunicated, but it is still a mortal sin, and you cannot recieve Holy Communion…

That is Not true…

The Church doesn’t usually say that something is an ex-communicatable offense one day and NOT the next…

Just because the Church doesn’t give a Bull of Excommunication does not mean one is NOT excommunicated… a person excommunicates himself when he does something like this… it’s automatic…

 

[Sir_Knight]

DallasTexas;3731534:

Sir Knight,

Thank you for your posting.

We have indeed had this discussion before. I still do not think that the Church making an error means that the gates of hell have over come His Church. I don’t remember any promise of perfection.

I pray that the Church will change It’s position on Freemasonry and see the error in condeming something that is not a mortal sin.

Sincerely,

Then what does it mean to YOU to not have the gates of hell overcome the church? What does it mean that the church will be guided by the Holy Spirit in all truths?

Let’s also not forget that Jesus gave the Church the authority to bind and loosen – whatever they declare to be a sin on earth, WILL BE considered to be a sin in heaven on judgement day – we have Christ’s promise on this.

This is not to be viewed as Christ giving authority to men over God but instead it is to be looked at as a guarantee that because the church is guided by the Holy Spirit of truth, they will only be able to declare things which are true in heaven.

If the church declares membership in the Masons to be a mortal sin, then according to Christ’s promise, that is how it will be judged on Judgement Day.