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atassina
Guest
What is the sacramental thinking behind the abstinence from meat on Fridays. What is the name of the document where the Church lays out the meaning behind the practice?
Friday abstain from meat. What is reasoning behind this Church discipline
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Gorgias
Guest
See Pope Paul VI’s 1966 Apostolic Constitution Paenitemini, which delves into both the theology of fast and abstinence and also the law of the Church with respect to times in which to observe them.
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tawny
Guest
Agree.
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Dennis_III
Guest
This is a fulfilment of prophecy. The Spirit predicted that this would happen.
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; - Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; - Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. - For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: - For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. - If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.” (1 Timothy 4:1-6)
Do not allow your conscience to be seared with a hot iron. Christians do not have to abstain from meats, so long as they receive the meats with thanksgiving. The meats are sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
“Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Mark 7:7)
“It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.” (Psalms 118:8)
Trust the Word of God, not the word of man.
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; - Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; - Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. - For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: - For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. - If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.” (1 Timothy 4:1-6)
Do not allow your conscience to be seared with a hot iron. Christians do not have to abstain from meats, so long as they receive the meats with thanksgiving. The meats are sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
“Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Mark 7:7)
“It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.” (Psalms 118:8)
Trust the Word of God, not the word of man.
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teeboy
Guest
I believe it is a form of penance. Giving up something that you desire.
Since it is fish, I usually try to connect every Friday to the apostles James, John, and Peter, who were fishermen.
Since it is fish, I usually try to connect every Friday to the apostles James, John, and Peter, who were fishermen.
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Vico
Guest
In chapter 3 of Paenitemini mentioned by Gorgias, asceticism (fast and abstinence) and charity is the preferred penitential practice where there is more economic well-being, and in other places, promotion of social justice and prayer is best.
…where economic well-being is greater, so much more will the witness of asceticism have to be given in order that the sons of the Church may not be involved in the spirit of the “world,”(61) and at the same time the witness of charity will have to be given to the brethren who suffer poverty and hunger beyond any barrier of nation or continent.(62)
On the other hand, in countries where the standard of living is lower, it will be more pleasing to God the Father and more useful to the members of the Body of Christ if Christians — while they seek in every way to promote better social justice — offer their suffering in prayer to the Lord in close union with the Cross of Christ.
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Dennis_III
Guest
“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.” (2 Timothy 4:2)
I am not blasting anyone. I am preaching the word, and rebuking. I do not rebuke or reprove out of hate, but out of love.
“As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.” (Revelation 3:19)
I am preaching the Truth of God’s Word. Have I suddenly become your enemy because I told you the truth?
“Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” (Galatians 4:16)
“And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” (John 8:45)
I pray that you come to the Truth of God’s Word, and accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your sole Master, rather than men.
“But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. - And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. - Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.” (Matthew 23:1-10)
I am not blasting anyone. I am preaching the word, and rebuking. I do not rebuke or reprove out of hate, but out of love.
“As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.” (Revelation 3:19)
I am preaching the Truth of God’s Word. Have I suddenly become your enemy because I told you the truth?
“Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” (Galatians 4:16)
“And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.” (John 8:45)
I pray that you come to the Truth of God’s Word, and accept The Lord Jesus Christ as your sole Master, rather than men.
“But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. - And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. - Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.” (Matthew 23:1-10)
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garyo49
Guest
There isn’t anything in Catholic teachings or doctrine that says anything about abstaining from meats except on Fridays and some others days throughout the year. Every other day we eat just like everyone else. It is a discipline designed to remind us of the sacrifice the Lord made for us and to discipline our bodies. So you speak in ignorance.
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Dennis_III
Guest
Before you answer this matter, please listen to what the Word of God says.
“He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.” (Proverbs 18:13)
“Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end. - There are many devices in a man’s heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.” (Psalms 19:20-21)
I would like to remind you that I am not rebuking out of hate. Christ Himself did not come to bring peace; he came to bring division. Christ chastens those that he loves. It is not always easy for someone to listen to rebuke, but it is something that must be done. I strongly urge you to hear the Word of God.
“He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.” (John 8:47)
Earlier, you admitted that Catholic doctrine commands you to abstain from meats, “…on Fridays and some others days throughout the year…”. This means that there are in fact, doctrines that command Catholics to abstain from meats. It makes no difference that you only have to abstain from meats at certain times; you are still abstaining from meats as a result of the commandments from Catholic doctrine.
In “chapter three” of the “APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION PAENITEMINI OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF PAUL VI ON FAST AND ABSTINENCE” it says that:
“I. 1. By divine law all the faithful are required to do penance.
2. The prescriptions of ecclesiastical law regarding penitence are totally reorganized according to the following norms:
II. 1. The time of Lent preserves its penitential character. The days of penitence to be observed under obligation throughout the Church are all Fridays and Ash Wednesday, that is to say the first days of “Grande Quaresima” (Great Lent), according to the diversity of the rites. Their substantial observance binds gravely.
2. Apart from the faculties referred to in VI and VIII regarding the manner of fulfilling the precept of penitence on such days, abstinence is to be observed on every Friday which does not fall on a day of obligation, while abstinence and fast is to be observed on Ash Wednesday or, according to the various practices of the rites, on the first day of “Grande Quaresima” (Great Lent) and on Good Friday.
III. 1. The law of abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, the products of milk or condiments made of animal fat.”
The Catholic doctrine that clearly commands abstinence from meats has been established; so let me ask you a serious question. How exactly does abstaining from meats at those appointed times remind you of the Lord’s sacrifice? The Lord Jesus Christ was brutally tortured and crucified in order to fulfill the Scriptures; and to absolve the sins of them that believe on Him with a repentant heart. How does abstaining from meats on those days relate to that in any way?
Also, if you will read the rest of the prophesy, you will notice that the Spirit specifically explains that bodily exercise profits little. Abstaining from meats for the purpose of disciplining your body is specifically mentioned as being of little profit.
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; - Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; - Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. - For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: - For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. - If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. - But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. - For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. - This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. - For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”(1 Timothy 4:1-10)
As you can see, the Spirit warns us of the doctrines that would cause some to depart from the faith.
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Dennis_III
Guest
The Word of God states that some would give heed to doctrines that forbid them from marrying; and doctrines that command them to abstain from meats.
According to the “SACERDOTALIS CAELIBATUS ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PAUL VI ON THE CELIBACY OF THE PRIEST” under the section entitled: “The Law of Celibacy Confirmed” we can see the doctrine that forbids ministers from marrying (this includes bishops and deacons):
“14. Hence We consider that the present law of celibacy should today continue to be linked to the ecclesiastical ministry. This law should support the minister in his exclusive, definitive and total choice of the unique and supreme love of Christ; it should uphold him in the entire dedication of himself to the public worship of God and to the service of the Church; it should distinguish his state of life both among the faithful and in the world at large.”
Now that the Catholic doctrine has been establish, let’s take a look at the Word of God:
“This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; - Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; - One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; - (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) - Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. - Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. - Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; - Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. - And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. - Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. - Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.” (1 Timothy 3:1-12)
It is clear from the Word of God that bishops and deacons are supposed to have their own families. They are supposed to be married to one woman, and have children. They are supposed to rule over their own children with all magnitude, because if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how can he take care of the church of God?
“(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)" (1 Timothy 3:5)
The Word of God emphasizes the importance of church leaders (bishops and deacons included) to be married, yet Catholic doctrine condemns it.
“He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD.” (Proverbs 18:22)
It is truly unfortunate that I have to say this, but it really seems like your conscience has been seared with a hot iron. I have shown you the commandment of God, and I know that you will reject it anyways.
“And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” (Mark 7:9)
You will cleave unto your tradition, rather than to the commandment of God. You will worship God in vain by teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
“Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Mark 7:7)
I pray that one day the Lord Jesus Christ will open your eyes to the Truth.
According to the “SACERDOTALIS CAELIBATUS ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PAUL VI ON THE CELIBACY OF THE PRIEST” under the section entitled: “The Law of Celibacy Confirmed” we can see the doctrine that forbids ministers from marrying (this includes bishops and deacons):
“14. Hence We consider that the present law of celibacy should today continue to be linked to the ecclesiastical ministry. This law should support the minister in his exclusive, definitive and total choice of the unique and supreme love of Christ; it should uphold him in the entire dedication of himself to the public worship of God and to the service of the Church; it should distinguish his state of life both among the faithful and in the world at large.”
Now that the Catholic doctrine has been establish, let’s take a look at the Word of God:
“This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. - A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; - Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; - One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; - (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) - Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. - Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. - Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; - Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. - And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. - Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. - Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.” (1 Timothy 3:1-12)
It is clear from the Word of God that bishops and deacons are supposed to have their own families. They are supposed to be married to one woman, and have children. They are supposed to rule over their own children with all magnitude, because if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how can he take care of the church of God?
“(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)" (1 Timothy 3:5)
The Word of God emphasizes the importance of church leaders (bishops and deacons included) to be married, yet Catholic doctrine condemns it.
“He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD.” (Proverbs 18:22)
It is truly unfortunate that I have to say this, but it really seems like your conscience has been seared with a hot iron. I have shown you the commandment of God, and I know that you will reject it anyways.
“And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” (Mark 7:9)
You will cleave unto your tradition, rather than to the commandment of God. You will worship God in vain by teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
“Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Mark 7:7)
I pray that one day the Lord Jesus Christ will open your eyes to the Truth.
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white_sheep
Guest
What does tying a string around your finger have to do with remembering to go to the bank?
Giving up meat on Friday is a sacrifice on our part to remember the sacrifice of Christ.
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Gorgias
Guest
I would suggest to you that (many of us?) already have. Just because we’re Catholics doesn’t mean we’re unfamiliar with the Bible.
And there you have it: you’ve moved, at this point, away from the Word of God in Scripture, and now, you have added your personal interpretation to it. The Scripture citation doesn’t say “any abstinence at any time and in any way” is what counts; that’s your personal interpretation. Do you not know “that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation”? (2 Pet 1:20)
Are there those in the world, in these latter days, who require their fellows to abstain from meats? Yes – they’re called vegetarians; they lambaste others who eat meat as evil and immoral.
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Vico
Guest
There are married priests and deacons in the Catholic Church. They do not marry after receiving Holy Orders, bishops remain unmarried. There were many people that were married more than once and this is what is addressed in your quote. Nowehere does it say that clergy are* required* to be married and have children. St. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7:7 “I wish you were all as I am”. (Unmarried).
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tafan
Guest
I do not wanting to get involved in the anti-Catholic polemics of this thread. But to go back to the OP (and maybe get the thread back on track), there is one purpose of Friday abstinence that should be stressed:
One of the reasons behind the abstaining from meat is so we have a day of communion penance, that we all do together. This is important. It is also the reason why the US Bishops have been not fully fulfilled their task per canon 1253. It certainly allows for them to substitute a different form of penance. But it should be a common penance!!! It should be something we have to do as a community.
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Dennis_III
Guest
You mean to say that the Word of God is anti-Catholic? I completely agree.
Read the Word of God.
“The ear that heareth the reproof of life abideth among the wise. - He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.” (Proverbs 15:31-32)
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Gorgias
Guest
The Word of God isn’t anti-Catholic; only your interpretation of it is.
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Dennis_III
Guest
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” (2 Peter 1:20)The Word of God isn’t anti-Catholic; only your interpretation of it is.
No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. The context of the Word of God is clearly understood. Take a look at what the Word of God says (yes I know, it’s hard for you to actually read God’s Word).
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. - Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” (Proverbs 30:5-6)
“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” (Deuteronomy 4:2)
God has given His commandments, yet you try to add unto them with your Catholic doctrines. This is abomination. You intentionally entangle yourself with the yoke of bondage.
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” (Galatians 5:1)
You have made the Word of God of none effect by your tradition. You worship God in vain, by teaching the doctrines of men, rather than God.
“Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.” (Mark 7:13)
“Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Mark 7:7)
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Dennis_III
Guest
“It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.” (Psalms 118:8)
How much more clear can that be? Why do you put your confidence in man, rather than God?
“Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. - In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. - Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.” (Proverbs 3:5-7)
Once again, how much more clear can that be?
“A scorner loveth not one that reproveth him: neither will he go unto the wise.” (Proverbs 15:12)
How much more clear can that be? Why do you put your confidence in man, rather than God?
“Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. - In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. - Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.” (Proverbs 3:5-7)
Once again, how much more clear can that be?
“A scorner loveth not one that reproveth him: neither will he go unto the wise.” (Proverbs 15:12)
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