Friday Abstinance

[strugglingalong]

Has the Friday abstinence from meat been done away with? I say it has not but only that the conference of Bishops has made an allowance for some other sacrifice to be made in place of abstinence from meat - but that all the Faithful are required to do some sort of penance and make sacrifice every Friday of the year.

Well, first a judicial canon law priest in my diocese has told me that it is a sin to not abstain from meat on Fridays. Now the USCCB has made the decision that someone can substitute another sacrifice in its place but Friday is still a day of penance and some form of penance must be observed.

Here it is in Canon Law. Note that it does not say a Bishops Conference can do away with the necessity of penance but just that they can allow for substitutions:

CHAPTER II.

Days of Penance

Can. 1250 The penitential days and times in the universal Church are every Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1252 The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Can. 1253 The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence as well as substitute other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.

Also do you think the traditional fast for Holy Mass, from midnight until you go to Holy Mass, should be re-instated?

Thoughts?

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[Monica37]

I try my best to abstain from meat on Fridays. Sometimes it is impossible such as if we have a dinner at someone’s house and they serve meat. I don’t want to be insuting to them. I could try to explain, but if they are not Catholic or if they are Catholic and don’t subscribe to that practice, I will not be evangelizing, but rather creating an awkward situation (have had that happen before). Wonder how others who find themselves in this position deal with this. My husband is military and we are sometimes have to meet people in his company at a place that only serves burgers or such. What would you do? I don’t want to come across as holier than thou, plus I have 2 children that would need to eat as well. As far as I know though, Friday is a penitential day and some act of pennence still needs to be done.

 

[strugglingalong]

I try my best to abstain from meat on Fridays. Sometimes it is impossible such as if we have a dinner at someone’s house and they serve meat. I don’t want to be insuting to them. I could try to explain, but if they are not Catholic or if they are Catholic and don’t subscribe to that practice, I will not be evangelizing, but rather creating an awkward situation (have had that happen before). Wonder how others who find themselves in this position deal with this. My husband is military and we are sometimes have to meet people in his company at a place that only serves burgers or such. What would you do? I don’t want to come across as holier than thou, plus I have 2 children that would need to eat as well. As far as I know though, Friday is a penitential day and some act of pennence still needs to be done.

I think in that case if you have to eat meat then just substitute some other penance and sacrifice, such as refraining from drinks other than water all day or something. The USCCB has definitely allowed substitutions:

"18. Gratefully remembering this, Catholic peoples from time
immemorial have set apart Friday for special penitential
observance by which they gladly suffer with Christ that they
may one day be glorified with Him. This is the heart of the
tradition of abstinence from meat on Friday where that
tradition has been observed in the holy Catholic Church.

1. Changing circumstances, including economic, dietary, and social
   elements, have made some of our people feel that the renunciation of
   the eating of meat is not always and for everyone the most effective
   means of practicing penance. Meat was once an exceptional form of
   food; now it is commonplace.

1. Accordingly, since the spirit of penance primarily suggests that we
   discipline ourselves in that which we enjoy most, to many in our day
   abstinence from meat no longer implies penance, while renunciation
   of other things would be more penitential.

1. For these and related reasons, the Catholic bishops of the United
   States, far from downgrading the traditional penitential observance of
   Friday, and motivated precisely by the desire to give the spirit of
   penance greater vitality, especially on Fridays, the day that Jesus died,
   urge our Catholic people henceforth to be guided by the following
   norms.

1. Friday itself remains a special day of penitential observance
   throughout the year, a time when those who seek perfection will be
   mindful of their personal sins and the sins of mankind which they are
   called upon to help expiate in union with Christ Crucified.

1. Friday should be in each week something of what Lent is in the
   entire year. For this reason we urge all to prepare for that weekly
   Easter that comes with each Sunday by freely making of every Friday a
   day of self-denial and mortification in prayerful remembrance of the
   passion of Jesus Christ.

1. Among the works of voluntary self-denial and personal penance
   which we especially commend to our people for the future observance
   of Friday, even though we hereby terminate the traditional law of
   abstinence binding under pain of sin, as the sole prescribed means of
   observing Friday, we give first place to abstinence from flesh meat.
   We do so in the hope that the Catholic community will
   ordinarily continue to abstain from meat by free choice as
   formerly we did in obedience to Church law." (From usccb.org/lent/Penance_and_Abstinence.pdf))

Since I don’t think the USCCB can terminate anything in the Code of Canon Law, what they are doing is saying that if you eat meat it is not a mortal sin so long as you make another sacrifice.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Jimmy Akin has a nice explanation of the issues relating to Friday abstinence here. His analysis sounds reasonable to me, the short answer being that there is no requirement for a Friday penance. Of course just because one isn’t required to do something doesn’t mean that one can’t take it on voluntarily.

 

[strugglingalong]

Jimmy Akin has a nice explanation of the issues relating to Friday abstinence here. His analysis sounds reasonable to me, the short answer being that there is no requirement for a Friday penance. Of course just because one isn’t required to do something doesn’t mean that one can’t take it on voluntarily.

I just don’t see how a Bishops conference can nullify Canon Law? Is that possible?

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I just don’t see how a Bishops conference can nullify Canon Law? Is that possible?

Pax Christi tecum.

Did you read the two canons he cited?

Can. 1251 Abstinence from eating meat or some other food according to the prescripts of the conference of bishops is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1253 The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence as well as substitute other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.

I’m no expert on canon law, but it sounds to me like this was open for the various bishops’ conferences to amend for their own countries.

 

[strugglingalong]

Did you read the two canons he cited?

Can. 1251 Abstinence from eating meat or some other food according to the prescripts of the conference of bishops is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1253 The conference of bishops can determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence as well as substitute other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety, in whole or in part, for abstinence and fast.

I’m no expert on canon law, but it sounds to me like this was open for the various bishops’ conferences to amend for their own countries.

Yes but does it say they can terminate the canons themselves? It sounds like they can modify it or allow substitutions but it doesn’t sound like they can just do away with it. I can’t see how a Bishops’ conference could do that.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[Sure]

Yes but does it say they can terminate the canons themselves? It sounds like they can modify it or allow substitutions but it doesn’t sound like they can just do away with it. I can’t see how a Bishops’ conference could do that.

Pax Christi tecum.

The USCCB never nullified any canons. They simply stated that in the US, you may offer some other form of penance in place of abstinence on non-lenten Fridays.

 

[strugglingalong]

The USCCB never nullified any canons. They simply stated that in the US, you may offer some other form of penance in place of abstinence on non-lenten Fridays.

Right, that’s my take on it too. But that means there is still a requirement to do penance every Friday just not necessarily abstinence from meat.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[Sure]

Right, that’s my take on it too. But that means there is still a requirement to do penance every Friday just not necessarily abstinence from meat.

Pax Christi tecum.

Absolutely.

 

[adstrinity]

What about specifically tomorrow? Feast of the Assumption of the BVM. Would it be okay, even if it was manditory to abstain every Friday to abstain from abstaining tomorrow (8/15)?

 

[strugglingalong]

What about specifically tomorrow? Feast of the Assumption of the BVM. Would it be okay, even if it was manditory to abstain every Friday to abstain from abstaining tomorrow (8/15)?

We cannot fast or abstain on major Feast days such as tomorrow so actually you are required not to fast because major feasts are days for rejoicing and joy, not fasting and penance.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Also do you think the traditional fast for Holy Mass, from midnight until you go to Holy Mass, should be re-instated?

I think it might be too prohibitive, especially for those who attend Masses at noon, in the afternoon, or in the evening.

I would rather see more catechesis so that more people would observe the fast as it is.

I could possibly see putting it back to a three-hour fast as it was when I was a child (with dispensation, of course, for those for whom it would be medically dangerous).

Or even make it an hour before MASS, rather than an hour before COMMUNION. As it stands, you could almost be eating something in the car on the way if Mass lasts an hour or more! Is that really a fast?

 

[strugglingalong]

I think it might be too prohibitive, especially for those who attend Masses at noon, in the afternoon, or in the evening.

I would rather see more catechesis so that more people would observe the fast as it is.

I could possibly see putting it back to a three-hour fast as it was when I was a child (with dispensation, of course, for those for whom it would be medically dangerous).

Or even make it an hour before MASS, rather than an hour before COMMUNION. As it stands, you could almost be eating something in the car on the way if Mass lasts an hour or more! Is that really a fast?

Exactly! It should definitely not be an hour before receiving Our Lord in Holy Communion but at least an hour before Holy Mass. I think three hours would be good at least. Dr. Ed Peters wrote an article somewhere on how an extended fast before Holy Mass would reinforce belief in the Real Presence and cut down on the sin of sacrilege since it would cause people to think more before receiving.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[jmcrae]

I just don’t see how a Bishops conference can nullify Canon Law? Is that possible?

No. I also disagree with Jimmy Akin’s analysis, for exactly this reason. (I disagree with him on one or two other things, too.)

 

[ProVobis]

I could possibly see putting it back to a three-hour fast as it was when I was a child (with dispensation, of course, for those for whom it would be medically dangerous).

Doesn’t seem that unreasonable. Perhaps they should strongly suggest it, though, rather than mandate it. Same for eating fish on Friday.

On second thought, maybe not. They strongly suggested communion on the tongue too and look where that went.

 

[strugglingalong]

No. I also disagree with Jimmy Akin’s analysis, for exactly this reason. (I disagree with him on one or two other things, too.)

Yeah because then you’d nullify Canon Law if each conference just nullified whatever they wanted to do away with.

Pax Christi Tecum.

 

[Badaliyyah]

No. I also disagree with Jimmy Akin’s analysis, for exactly this reason. (I disagree with him on one or two other things, too.)

I am not a canon lawyer…so this is completely heresay, but I was told by a friend - who does do canon law - in the context of a discussion of the fasting practices of Latins and Melkites, that there was no REQUIREMENT for Latin Catholics to do Friday penance of any kind in the United States at the moment (with two(??) exceptions, when fasting is required).

I pass it along for what it was worth.

Has Rome ever said anything that would suggest the Bps conference passed out of bounds?

For those keeping the Dormition Fast, blessed end of fast and Happy Feast.

salaam.

 

[strugglingalong]

I am not a canon lawyer…so this is completely heresay, but I was told by a friend - who does do canon law - in the context of a discussion of the fasting practices of Latins and Melkites, that there was no REQUIREMENT for Latin Catholics to do Friday penance of any kind in the United States at the moment (with two(??) exceptions, when fasting is required).

I pass it along for what it was worth.

Has Rome ever said anything that would suggest the Bps conference passed out of bounds?

For those keeping the Dormition Fast, blessed end of fast and Happy Feast.

salaam.

See posts #1 and #3 to see what the Code of Canon Law says and the USCCB says. The fact is some form of sacrifice is required and Friday remains a day of penance, just the USCCB has removed abstinence under pain of sin by allowing another substitution to be made, but some form of penance is to be done.

I spoke a priest who is a Canon Lawyer in the diocese who said it is a sin to not fast from meat (or, I assume, to make some other sacrifice in place of meat).

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[adstrinity]

We cannot fast or abstain on major Feast days such as tomorrow so actually you are required not to fast because major feasts are days for rejoicing and joy, not fasting and penance.

Pax Christi tecum.

I thought so, but, I wanted to make sure. Thank you.