Friday meat question

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Hi folks.

I just got to the office and I see that I have a lunch scheduled at a Vietnamese place, which means Pho. Pho is a meat based soup. I can get it with no meat, but what about the broth? I know we can have things like butter, but I never thought about broth.

I am sure they have things other than Pho (though I can imagine why anyone would want amthing else!), so I’m not too concerned. The question is more academic than anything.

Thanks!
Fermat.
 
fermat said:
Hi folks.

I just got to the office and I see that I have a lunch scheduled at a Vietnamese place, which means Pho. Pho is a meat based soup. I can get it with no meat, but what about the broth? I know we can have things like butter, but I never thought about broth.

I am sure they have things other than Pho (though I can imagine why anyone would want amthing else!), so I’m not too concerned. The question is more academic than anything.

Thanks!
Fermat.
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I would err on the side of caution and avoid broth. I did a search, and two different web pages indicated that the rule includes items made with meat (broth and gravy). It mades sense to me, since meat broth really is a way of consuming meat when you think about it. They did indicate that meat-derived products that do not have the tast of meat would not be included (so cheese made with rennet or gelatine would not be included).

Hope that’s helpful.

God Bless,
Joan
 
jakasaki said:
Hi there…!

Help me understand.

I read the article link … did I read it right?

Catholics can have “broth” made from meat/chicken on Lent Friday’s…and it’s OK as long as the broth does not have meat in it…??
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That is how I read it. Personally I will err on the side of caution and get a non-broth soup. The important to remember is the spirit of the law and not get overly legalistic. The point of abstaiance is for penace. Since I really love pho, I will abstain for that fact as much as the meat part.
 
I was taught that it was ok to have beef/chicken broth on Friday’s during lent so long as they didn’t have any actual pieces of meat/chicken in them. I don’t know how reliable americancatholic.org is but according them:

"Abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, milk products or condiments made of animal fat.

Abstinence does not include meat juices and liquid foods made from meat. Thus, such foods as chicken broth, consomme, soups cooked or flavored with meat, meat gravies or sauces, as well as seasonings or condiments made from animal fat are not forbidden. So it is permissible to use margarine and lard."

americancatholic.org/features/lent/faqle9902.asp
 
fermat said:
That is how I read it. Personally I will err on the side of caution and get a non-broth soup. The important to remember is the spirit of the law and not get overly legalistic. The point of abstaiance is for penace. Since I really love pho, I will abstain for that fact as much as the meat part.
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Hi to all,

After reading the links, it seems to me that it’s a matter of opinion and interpretation.

I guess it’s really a matter of individual conscience, but my conscience tells me that broth is not a condiment made from animal fat, but it is a form of consuming meat. A hearty broth can taste very strongly of meat. And gravy is even more connected with meat consumption.

I was pointing out to my husband yesterday that modern life is unlike that of many years ago in that so many rely on restaurants for regular eating, and are not familiar with how most of what they order is made. So it is easier to make a mistake or to find doubtful areas. We should be gentle with ourselves, and remember there is only a question of grave sin where there is a delibrate decsion to disobey (as in ordering steak).

God Bless,
Joan
 
mswood said:
I was taught that it was ok to have beef/chicken broth on Friday’s during lent so long as they didn’t have any actual pieces of meat/chicken in them. I don’t know how reliable americancatholic.org is but according them:

"Abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, milk products or condiments made of animal fat.

Abstinence does not include meat juices and liquid foods made from meat. Thus, such foods as chicken broth, consomme, soups cooked or flavored with meat, meat gravies or sauces, as well as seasonings or condiments made from animal fat are not forbidden. So it is permissible to use margarine and lard."

americancatholic.org/features/lent/faqle9902.asp
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That is my understanding of the law also.
 
not sure, i am in the dark on this issue. And hopefully someone can lighten it up for me
 
jakasaki said:
Hi there…!

Help me understand.

I read the article link … did I read it right?

Catholics can have “broth” made from meat/chicken on Lent Friday’s…and it’s OK as long as the broth does not have meat in it…??
Click to expand...
yes that is what the guidelines for this diocese say, boullion or broth or condiments derived from meat, just not meat itself.

for all these particulars on the lenten disciplines go to your diocesan website or to your pastor as the rules vary from place to place. Spend all this energy and anxiety wasted on trying to microanalyze the rules in cultivating a sincere heart, repentence and conversion. I came back hoping to find out what Pho is, never heard of it, our Vietnamese place has mostly generic American-style “Asian” dishes.
 
Well, it brings me to a topic. This coming friday it is a feast day, but at the same time it is a friday and we are told to abstain from meat during Lent.

Technically, should the coming friday not be counted as Lent? Personally, i don`t want to take any chances and have some fish and macaroni instead. Rules are rules and i want to avoid any further error or silly personal mistakes.
 
Padraig1972 said:
Well, it brings me to a topic. This coming friday it is a feast day, but at the same time it is a friday and we are told to abstain from meat during Lent.

Technically, should the coming friday not be counted as Lent? Personally, i don`t want to take any chances and have some fish and macaroni instead. Rules are rules and i want to avoid any further error or silly personal mistakes.
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Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
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Feast is sometimes used generically to indicate any day which honors a particular saint or dogma. However, in liturgical terms, these days are scaled with increasing levels of observance: optional memorials, memorials, Feasts, and, the highest, Solemnities. This Friday is a Solemnity. Thus is exempt from penitential observance.

I think that we inherit this from the Jewish practice; a celebration takes precedence over a day of penance or mourning. I knew a Jewish family several years ago who had to cut short the mourning for their father because they had a wedding scheduled.

Note Nehemiah 8:9-10
9 And Nehemiah, who was the governor, and Ezra the priest and scribe, and the Levites who taught the people said to all the people, “This day is holy to the LORD your God; do not mourn or weep.” For all the people wept when they heard the words of the law. 10 Then he said to them, “Go your way, eat the fat and drink sweet wine and send portions to him for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord; and do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength.”
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Joan1969 said:
I would err on the side of caution and avoid broth. I did a search, and two different web pages indicated that the rule includes items made with meat (broth and gravy). It mades sense to me, sincer4 meat broth really is a way of consuming meat when you think about it. They did indicate that meat-derived products that do not have the tast of meat would not be included (so cheese made with rennet or gelatine would not be included).

Hope that’s helpful.

God Bless,
Joan
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yes, you are right. bless you.
 
There is such a thing called the “spirit of the fast”. Do you think its okay to eat soy burgers just because they are not made of meat? But they look like meat and taste like meat. So you’re only kidding yourself when you think that soy burgers are exempt from the fast because you do not really end up giving up much at all.

Same with broth. In the East, Great Fast would include abstaining from dairy products. Why? They come from animals we use for meat.

Not sure if all Pho are meat based. I mean, it could be traditionally but I can’t imagine here in North America they wouldn’t have come up with a variant that would suit vegetarians or those who by their lifestyle avoid red meat (so seafood).
 
ConstantineTG said:
There is such a thing called the “spirit of the fast”. Do you think its okay to eat soy burgers just because they are not made of meat? But they look like meat and taste like meat. So you’re only kidding yourself when you think that soy burgers are exempt from the fast because you do not really end up giving up much at all.
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I think living the spirit of the fast really is what helps inform us of what we should do. 😃
 
ConstantineTG said:
There is such a thing called the “spirit of the fast”. Do you think its okay to eat soy burgers just because they are not made of meat? But they look like meat and taste like meat. So you’re only kidding yourself when you think that soy burgers are exempt from the fast because you do not really end up giving up much at all.

Same with broth. In the East, Great Fast would include abstaining from dairy products. Why? They come from animals we use for meat.

Not sure if all Pho are meat based. I mean, it could be traditionally but I can’t imagine here in North America they wouldn’t have come up with a variant that would suit vegetarians or those who by their lifestyle avoid red meat (so seafood).
Click to expand...
This is why i eat soup or fishcakes with potatoes and keep it limited this day. Why? Because to me, every friday is a fasten and abstinence day. I have lived this way for over a year now and cannot really see why it makes any different this friday, even it is a festive day in the churchcalendar.

Sure, i will go to mass and usual and eat at my friends place probably, but still…
 
So we went to the Pho place and I was happy to find a seafood version (sorta) of the dish. It was a nice change of pace.

I typically eschew eating out on Friday’s during lent for many of the reasons that others have stated here; however, there are times when my job dictates lunch with the staff. It happened on Ash Wednesday too, but this time it was a hamburger joint. Lunch consisted of a side of onion rings, a few hot peppers and a drink.
 
Mel_Stones said:
Perhaps this Apologist’s answer will help

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?threadid=545883
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It helps yes and thank you so much. Once before on a friday, i did not eat meat as we had an evangilization week at my parish and the parish priest dispenced us so we could eat the meat that the philipine group at our parish had made for us.

It felt wrong in my mind, but i ate it and obeyed. As eating meat this friday feels wrong.
Custom, habit or just trying to be as obedient as possible, it is a mixed up feeling inside alright.
 
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