Friday Penance poll (What to do about meat on Fridays?)

[fred_conty]

I think it should be where it is, to chose to do it because of our memory of Jesus’ crucifixion for us, or something along that idea. Then it would be good for bringing us closer to Jesus.

The idea of making a person do penance is rather foreign to the word “penance” itself. It has to be voluntary to do its good for us. If we complain or resent it, or have a bad attitude and do it anyway, is this really fulfilling the purpose of prayer which penance is a type? We have to believe in the reason and chose to do it for good reasons thru our understanding.

We know there are "C"atholics and then there are "c"atholics. Right now the way the bishops have stated this penance, it allows "c"atholics an “out” without sin or very little. And how many of the “c” variety do we have? While on the other hand, it allows "C"atholics who wish to appreciate Jesus for his suffering for us, greater good out of this penance, since they do it out of their appreciation and not out of obligation.

That seems to be the best of both worlds. To eliminate sinning where possible, and to allow greater love where possible.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Sirach2]

It has been noted that for many Catholics, eating fish on Friday is a joy and some actually look forward to it. There is no underlying penance, therefore. This is an easy obligation, but I do not understand how it can be a form of penance for many folks. I sometimes look forward to going out to dinner on Friday at a buffet restaurant where they serve baked white fish with cocktail sauce, butterfly fried shrimp, shrimp cocktail, king crab legs, etc. What a delight! Where’s the penance? It’s just too easy, too enjoyable. And there’s also Red Lobster with its many delicious meatless items on the menu.

I kinda think that may be the underlying reason for abolishing it here in the states where fish is a gourmet food. I would be in favor of substituting another penance.

 

[mommamaree]

We know there are "C"atholics and then there are "c"atholics. Right now the way the bishops have stated this penance, it allows "c"atholics an “out” without sin or very little. And how many of the “c” variety do we have? While on the other hand, it allows "C"atholics who wish to appreciate Jesus for his suffering for us, greater good out of this penance, since they do it out of their appreciation and not out of obligation.

Really?!
So, I must be a "c"atholic then, since I have struggled since my recent conversion with an on-again-off-again practice of Friday abstinence from meat. So, a striving for learning how to be obedient to legitimate authority is not enough to be worthy of a “C”, in fred conty’s opinion. It is attitudes like this that put people off. Instead of encouraging more people to take up a penitential practice, this kind of attitude puts down those who are not already doing so. The “Holier-Than-Thou” games I have witnessed among Catholics are already incredibly wearisome, and I have only been Catholic for 2.5 years.

There are much more charitable ways to encourage a brother or sister in Christ without playing keepaway with the name "C"atholic. Making your brother or sister in Christ have to jump to please you in order to be granted that which is already due to them by virtue of their baptism is attempting to usurp God’s authority.

 

[Sirach2]

Really?!
So, I must be a "c"atholic then, since I have struggled since my recent conversion with an on-again-off-again practice of Friday abstinence from meat. So, a striving for learning how to be obedient to legitimate authority is not enough to be worthy of a “C”, in fred conty’s opinion. It is attitudes like this that put people off. Instead of encouraging more people to take up a penitential practice, this kind of attitude puts down those who are not already doing so. The “Holier-Than-Thou” games I have witnessed among Catholics are already incredibly wearisome, and I have only been Catholic for 2.5 years.

There are much more charitable ways to encourage a brother or sister in Christ without playing keepaway with the name "C"atholic. Making your brother or sister in Christ have to jump to please you in order to be granted that which is already due to them by virtue of their baptism is attempting to usurp God’s authority.

I am so sorry you misread Fred’s post and went overboard to express your anger. This is the only thing I noticed, and it was not a slur toward anyone other than those who look for excuses to avoid anything encouraged by the Church. Certainly, that did not include those who are striving, such as yourself.

it allows "c"atholics an “out” without sin or very little.

IMO, Fred has always behaved as an honorable gentleman in these fora.

 

[mommamaree]

It has been noted that for many Catholics, eating fish on Friday is a joy and some actually look forward to it. There is no underlying penance, therefore. This is an easy obligation, but I do not understand how it can be a form of penance for many folks. I sometimes look forward to going out to dinner on Friday at a buffet restaurant where they serve baked white fish with cocktail sauce, butterfly fried shrimp, shrimp cocktail, king crab legs, etc. What a delight! Where’s the penance? It’s just too easy, too enjoyable. And there’s also Red Lobster with its many delicious meatless items on the menu.

I kinda think that may be the underlying reason for abolishing it here in the states where fish is a gourmet food. I would be in favor of substituting another penance.

This obstacle you describe is valid, but it only really applies to those people who have the opportunity and the budget to go out to eat, or to afford to purchase those foods to make at home. I know that for my family, Friday abstinence meals include plainer and simpler foods like oatmeal and PBJ or grilled cheese sandwiches and pasta and salad. More of a vegetarian menu, rather than just switching which animal-food is acceptable. And that goes for most of the families in my parish that are still raising children. So, while I see your point, I still think Friday abstinence makes a lot of sense, and if a Catholic would like to do another penance in addition (if they are able to eat more extravagant seafood regularly) then they may do so. Of course, this is all up to the bishops anyway, but it is still interesting to discuss.

 

[silicasandra]

I think it should be where it is, to chose to do it because of our memory of Jesus’ crucifixion for us, or something along that idea. Then it would be good for bringing us closer to Jesus.

The idea of making a person do penance is rather foreign to the word “penance” itself. It has to be voluntary to do its good for us. If we complain or resent it, or have a bad attitude and do it anyway, is this really fulfilling the purpose of prayer which penance is a type? We have to believe in the reason and chose to do it for good reasons thru our understanding.

We know there are "C"atholics and then there are "c"atholics. Right now the way the bishops have stated this penance, it allows "c"atholics an “out” without sin or very little. And how many of the “c” variety do we have? While on the other hand, it allows "C"atholics who wish to appreciate Jesus for his suffering for us, greater good out of this penance, since they do it out of their appreciation and not out of obligation.

That seems to be the best of both worlds. To eliminate sinning where possible, and to allow greater love where possible.

Just a few thoughts.

But there are already requirements for Catholics to practice their faith. We must receive communion and go to confession at least once a year, and we must attend Mass on every holy day of obligation (which includes all Sundays.) The Friday penance may not be on quite that level, but the Church already recognizes that it needs to set some basic rules for us for our own spiritual benefit. Sure, there are those who already don’t even care about those basic rules, but for those of us who DO care AND still need the extra push (which I think is a lot of us) appreciate it when it’s applied.

 

[mommamaree]

I am so sorry you misread Fred’s post and went overboard to express your anger. This is the only thing I noticed, and it was not a slur toward anyone other than those who look for excuses to avoid anything encouraged by the Church. Certainly, that did not include those who are struggling, such as yourself.

I am not sure that I went overboard. I expressed my honest reaction to what he said and it wasn’t the particular sentence you picked out to examine further. I have seen a lot of this attitude, not just at CAF, but in my parish. He clearly made the connection with people who do not practice year-round Friday abstinence and being "c"atholic, not "C"atholic. That is not his judgement to make. I responded strongly because that attitude of judging one another, not based upon admonishing the sinner, but rather based upon perceived level of holiness due to observable pious practices, is so wrong and it is very burdensome for brothers and sisters in Christ.

I have liked all the other points made in this thread, though, and was happy to see this poll started.

 

[Sirach2]

This obstacle you describe is valid, but it only really applies to those people who have the opportunity and the budget to go out to eat, or to afford to purchase those foods to make at home. I know that for my family, Friday abstinence meals include plainer and simpler foods like oatmeal and PBJ or grilled cheese sandwiches and pasta and salad.

Most of the time I prepare creamed tuna on toast.

I truly think our nation is made up of a lot of folks who do go out to eat on Fridays as normal fare, and who can afford to do so. One can hardly find a parking spot, and the wait inside is nearly a half-hour for a seat.

 

[Sirach2]

Just my observance that you were oversensitive. I have read many of Fred’s posts and he is not judgmental, not even close.

 

[mommamaree]

Just my observance that you were oversensitive. I have read many of Fred’s posts and he is not judgmental, not even close.

Okay, perhaps you are right. I will accept your explanation of his meaning, and assume that I just overreacted due to my own struggles. It could also have to do with my being pregnant and hormonal and exhausted, and the fact that two of our local schools were on lock-down today because of people being on campus who had no right or reason to be there. I am very edgy and out-of-sorts.

Fred,
I am sorry. I hope you will accept my apology. Sirach pointed out that I overreacted and I think s/he is right. I shouldn’t have assumed meanings that you didn’t intend. I will behave myself better in future.

 

[airforcemom]

I have followed the no meat on Fridays for most of life. Living in SE Louisiana we have the best seafood so that is always available on Fridays. As a child and living in other countries our big Friday night meal was eggs and grits - still one of my favorites. I’m now over the age of having to abide by the Lenten requirement but I do and it does happen that I do occasionally have meat on Friday during the year but it is rare. It is very easy to do. I think more of the “old” ways/traditions need to come back strong.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Had tuna melts for lunch and delicious “mashed potato” soup for dinner. It is very easy to maintain meatless Fridays. I do hope the Bishops of the US agree to bring back that specific discipline!

 

[fred_conty]

Really?!
So, I must be a "c"atholic then, since I have struggled since my recent conversion with an on-again-off-again practice of Friday abstinence from meat. So, a striving for learning how to be obedient to legitimate authority is not enough to be worthy of a “C”, in fred conty’s opinion. It is attitudes like this that put people off. Instead of encouraging more people to take up a penitential practice, this kind of attitude puts down those who are not already doing so. The “Holier-Than-Thou” games I have witnessed among Catholics are already incredibly wearisome, and I have only been Catholic for 2.5 years.

There are much more charitable ways to encourage a brother or sister in Christ without playing keepaway with the name "C"atholic. Making your brother or sister in Christ have to jump to please you in order to be granted that which is already due to them by virtue of their baptism is attempting to usurp God’s authority.

I am sorry if I have stepped on anyone’s toes. I am a very proud person so you will have to forgive me. I wish you the best and I know the struggle you have isn’t an easy one. Thank you for your insight.

Just some thoughts.

 

[fred_conty]

But there are already requirements for Catholics to practice their faith. We must receive communion and go to confession at least once a year, and we must attend Mass on every holy day of obligation (which includes all Sundays.) The Friday penance may not be on quite that level, but the Church already recognizes that it needs to set some basic rules for us for our own spiritual benefit. Sure, there are those who already don’t even care about those basic rules, but for those of us who DO care AND still need the extra push (which I think is a lot of us) appreciate it when it’s applied.

silicasandra, thanks for your response and here are some answers.

At one of the Bishop’s conferences, they debated about mandatory obligation of holy days of obligation. That is whether to remove the obligation. They compromised to some degree.

I believe the obligation of Sunday mass was also debated but that didn’t change.
I think they made the right decision because if a person goes to Sunday Mass, at least they are hanging on. In my family, I’m seen when that goes, they go.

Friday’s abstinence is another issue. For those who do not want to do it, what good is it if they do do it? The love is gone, and in fact, it might be worse for them since they complain. Of what value is that when they are angry or upset by it? For them I believe it would be better if they were free not to do it. We do have a lot of catholics not practising their faith. They too still are obliged by Friday’s abstinence. To me it would be better to eliminate those sins by making the penance voluntary.

On the other hand, those that do it for the right reason and in a loving fashion, gain that much more. In fact they may do it on Wednesday’s or other days as well.

But then it is all up to the bishop’s who are our spiritual guides.

Just some thoughts.

 

[AveMaria12]

In my opinion,
It would be great to leave it as it is to allow for flexibility. This, however, has proved to be very impractical. Most people -I used to be in this group- do not even know that they are supposed to do penance. The word has been passed around in a strange fashion and many people are led to believe that it is not mandatory to do some form of penance on Friday.
Skipping warm-blooded meat is, if you look at it carefully, a very easy penance. You could still dine out at a five-star seafood restaurant on a Friday. The Eastern Church has cool penance: they don’t eat any animal products.

 

[Saints_Alive]

We’ve taken a lot of liberty with traditions, disciplines, and customs since VII.

What have we gained by dropping the meatless Fridays ?

What have we lost ?

I say yes, bring back meatless Fridays.

 

[sojo]

Meatless Fridays would not be a penance for our family. My son has been a vegetarian since he was a baby (he’s 16 now), and my husband and I only eat meat two or three times a week, and then its usually fish or shellfish. Fridays, As someone said, fish is our “fancy” go to meal - its what I almost always order in restaurants to treat myself and splurge.

I try to completely fast until dinner on Friday and say an extra prayer, though it is difficult as I home school my son who has Down syndrome, and work FT from home and have to do the usual housekeeping and cooking.

If the Church moves to meatless Fridays and no other penance, that would be like a free ride for us!

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Many people in many cultures were vegetarian or near vegetarian in he time that mandatory abstinence was the norm. Those folks just continued eating whatever non meat meals they Te before. Friday abstinence doesn’t mean you have to eat seafood and it doesn’t mean you have to fast. Just eat your regular veggie meals and pray for us!

 

[SweetLambs]

I’ve spent my whole life abstaining from meat on Fridays. It’s a habit, not difficult for me at all. At least, it’s not difficult to remember. I am not a seafood person though! I like my red meat.

But then again, I also fast from all food and drink (including water) from midnight every Sunday for Holy Communion. The food part is easy, since I don’t usually even like to eat breakfast, but the water part is definitely more of a sacrifice for me.

Sleeping on straw isn’t a big deal to me either- I do it all the time during lambing season!

Some things are not penance for some people.

I think Friday abstinence is a beautiful practice, even if it isn’t that difficult for some people. It’s still a Catholic identity, and it’s still a sacrifice when one is going out to eat or at somebody’s house for dinner.