Friday Penance Question

  • Thread starter Thread starter karennascargo3
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

karennascargo3

Guest
As a fairly new Catholic, I had quite a surprise yesterday. While looking at a Catholic site I discovered that the no-meat-on-Friday has never been done away with; rather we are to either abstain or do a penance instead.

Why is this not taught or even brought up in our local parishes or diocese or why would it not be taught in RICA? I’m stunned because it’s like it’s just totally ignored. When I asked a Catholic friend, she just said, “Catholics don’t practice that any more”. Is this really true?

It still would be a good thing to tell new Catholics and let them determine for themselves the validity of this requirement. It’s difficult when your new and trying to be a good Catholic and do what is pleasing to God. I get kind of down and discouraged that we have so few good examples or even know what we are to do or not to do to be in compliance with Catholic practices. Sometimes I feel like it’s pick and choose which ones to follow and which ones not to. I know that’s true of all faiths, but newbies should at least be *made aware *of the Church’s requirements.

Okay, rant over. 😉

My real question is that I’m not sure I know what would be an acceptable ‘penance’ if I choose to partake of meat on Friday instead. What would be some examples of this type of penance? I looked online but couldn’t find any examples.
 
You can find some information about this from the USCCB here:

old.usccb.org/doctrine/penitential.shtml

It’s a little vague, but it has some ideas.

Of course, for those in the UK, it’s a lot easier because the requirement to abstain from meat on all Fridays has been restored. I choose the easy route myself except for extraordinary situations (e.g. a Friday dinner party at someone’s house).

I am a cradle Catholic, but I never knew about the penitential requirements for Fridays until I came back to the Church after being away. It is possible that you didn’t learn about it in RCIA because the instructor didn’t know. 🙂 Sad, but true. All we can do about it is tell whatever people we can.

–Jen
 
My real question is that I’m not sure I know what would be an acceptable ‘penance’ if I choose to partake of meat on Friday instead. What would be some examples of this type of penance? I looked online but couldn’t find any examples.
Hi Karen,

I refrain from eating meat on Fridays, although sometimes when I do slip up (like today!) then I’ll pray the Chaplet of St. Michael the Archangel on Friday instead of not eating meat.
I went out for breakfast this morning with every intention of not ordering any meat, completely forgot about it when I placed my order and I ordered bacon :eek: , and so told myself that I’ll pray the Chaplet of St. Michael this evening (in addition to my daily rosary).

Here’s some information you might find helpful concerning the rulings from the US Council of Bishops on the matter of Friday penance…

Abstinence - The law of abstinence requires a Catholic 14 years of age until death to abstain from eating meat on Fridays in honor of the Passion of Jesus on Good Friday. Meat is considered to be the flesh and organs of mammals and fowl. Also forbidden are soups or gravies made from them. Salt and freshwater species of fish, amphibians, reptiles and shellfish are permitted, as are animal derived products such as margarine and gelatin which do not have any meat taste.

HOWEVER > >
On the Fridays outside of Lent the U.S. bishops conference obtained the permission of the Holy See for Catholics in the US to substitute a penitential, or even a charitable practice of their own choosing. They must do some penitential/charitable practice on these Fridays. For most people the easiest practice to consistently fulfill will be the traditional one, to abstain from meat on all Fridays of the year. During Lent abstinence from meat on Fridays is obligatory in the United States as elsewhere.

catholic.org/clife/lent/abfast.php
 
As a fairly new Catholic, I had quite a surprise yesterday. While looking at a Catholic site I discovered that the no-meat-on-Friday has never been done away with; rather we are to either abstain or do a penance instead.

Why is this not taught or even brought up in our local parishes or diocese or why would it not be taught in RICA? I’m stunned because it’s like it’s just totally ignored. When I asked a Catholic friend, she just said, “Catholics don’t practice that any more”. Is this really true?

It still would be a good thing to tell new Catholics and let them determine for themselves the validity of this requirement. It’s difficult when your new and trying to be a good Catholic and do what is pleasing to God. I get kind of down and discouraged that we have so few good examples or even know what we are to do or not to do to be in compliance with Catholic practices. Sometimes I feel like it’s pick and choose which ones to follow and which ones not to. I know that’s true of all faiths, but newbies should at least be *made aware *of the Church’s requirements.

Okay, rant over. 😉

My real question is that I’m not sure I know what would be an acceptable ‘penance’ if I choose to partake of meat on Friday instead. What would be some examples of this type of penance? I looked online but couldn’t find any examples.
Extra corporal works of mercy would be a good thing to do.
 
As a fairly new Catholic, I had quite a surprise yesterday. While looking at a Catholic site I discovered that the no-meat-on-Friday has never been done away with; rather we are to either abstain or do a penance instead.

Why is this not taught or even brought up in our local parishes or diocese or why would it not be taught in RICA? I’m stunned because it’s like it’s just totally ignored. When I asked a Catholic friend, she just said, “Catholics don’t practice that any more”. Is this really true?

It still would be a good thing to tell new Catholics and let them determine for themselves the validity of this requirement. It’s difficult when your new and trying to be a good Catholic and do what is pleasing to God. I get kind of down and discouraged that we have so few good examples or even know what we are to do or not to do to be in compliance with Catholic practices. Sometimes I feel like it’s pick and choose which ones to follow and which ones not to. I know that’s true of all faiths, but newbies should at least be *made aware *of the Church’s requirements.

Okay, rant over. 😉

My real question is that I’m not sure I know what would be an acceptable ‘penance’ if I choose to partake of meat on Friday instead. What would be some examples of this type of penance? I looked online but couldn’t find any examples.
The preference is for Friday abstinance! It used to be the norm to also fast (just one full meal) on Friday.

Catechism:

1430 Jesus’ call to conversion and penance, like that of the prophets before him, does not aim first at outward works, “sackcloth and ashes,” fasting and mortification, but at the conversion of the heart, interior conversion. Without this, such penances remain sterile and false; however, interior conversion urges expression in visible signs, gestures and works of penance.23

V. THE MANY FORMS OF PENANCE IN CHRISTIAN LIFE
1434
The interior penance of the Christian can be expressed in many and various ways. Scripture and the Fathers insist above all on three forms, fasting, prayer, and almsgiving,31 which express conversion in relation to oneself, to God, and to others. Alongside the radical purification brought about by Baptism or martyrdom they cite as means of obtaining forgiveness of sins: effort at reconciliation with one’s neighbor, tears of repentance, concern for the salvation of one’s neighbor, the intercession of the saints, and the practice of charity "which covers a multitude of sins."32
1435 Conversion is accomplished in daily life by gestures of reconciliation, concern for the poor, the exercise and defense of justice and right,33 by the admission of faults to one’s brethren, fraternal correction, revision of life, examination of conscience, spiritual direction, acceptance of suffering, endurance of persecution for the sake of righteousness. Taking up one’s cross each day and following Jesus is the surest way of penance.34
1436 Eucharist and Penance. Daily conversion and penance find their source and nourishment in the Eucharist, for in it is made present the sacrifice of Christ which has reconciled us with God. Through the Eucharist those who live from the life of Christ are fed and strengthened. "It is a remedy to free us from our daily faults and to preserve us from mortal sins."35
1437 Reading Sacred Scripture, praying the Liturgy of the Hours and the Our Father - every sincere act of worship or devotion revives the spirit of conversion and repentance within us and contributes to the forgiveness of our sins.
1438 The seasons and days of penance in the course of the liturgical year (Lent, and each Friday in memory of the death of the Lord) are intense moments of the Church’s penitential practice.36 These times are particularly appropriate for spiritual exercises, penitential liturgies, pilgrimages as signs of penance, voluntary self-denial such as fasting and almsgiving, and fraternal sharing (charitable and missionary works).
1439 The process of conversion and repentance was described by Jesus in the parable of the prodigal son, the center of which is the merciful father:37 the fascination of illusory freedom, the abandonment of the father’s house; the extreme misery in which the son finds himself after squandering his fortune; his deep humiliation at finding himself obliged to feed swine, and still worse, at wanting to feed on the husks the pigs ate; his reflection on all he has lost; his repentance and decision to declare himself guilty before his father; the journey back; the father’s generous welcome; the father’s joy - all these are characteristic of the process of conversion. The beautiful robe, the ring, and the festive banquet are symbols of that new life - pure worthy, and joyful - of anyone who returns to God and to the bosom of his family, which is the Church. Only the heart of Christ who knows the depths of his Father’s love could reveal to us the abyss of his mercy in so simple and beautiful a way.

ewtn.com/faith/lent/fast.htm

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/canon-law/complementary-norms/canons-1252-and-1253-observance-of-fast-and-abstinence.cfm
 
My real question is that I’m not sure I know what would be an acceptable ‘penance’ if I choose to partake of meat on Friday instead. What would be some examples of this type of penance? I looked online but couldn’t find any examples.
Some people go to church/chapel and pray the Stations of the Cross on Fridays.
 
I didn’t know we still had Friday penance… I had never heard of it until a few years ago online. At school the cafeteria used to avoid serving meat on Fridays, but only during Lent… so I always thought it was no meat on Lenten Fridays only 🤷
I think the penance depends on the person and is personal… I don’t think there are rules on what would be acceptable. Back when I was living at home (and didn’t do the cooking) I would usually pray the rosary as my penance… 🙂
 
My real question is that I’m not sure I know what would be an acceptable ‘penance’ if I choose to partake of meat on Friday instead. What would be some examples of this type of penance? I looked online but couldn’t find any examples.
I recently read something from Jimmy Akin where he explains how for the United States the laws on abstinence and penitential acts on Fridays outside of Lent have been rewritten in such a way to suggest it is a good and laudable practice to abstain from meat or perform another form a penance. But the wording is vague enough to keep it from being an absolute requirement.

The uncertainty is probably why the fasting rules are not so well taught. But obviously we can abstain from meat or practice another form of penance even if the Church doesn’t say it’s a sin not to do so.
 
I usually try to abstain from meat on Fridays as well. It isn’t particularly difficult, but its a good reminder to me.

You’ve gotten some good suggestions so far, especially the idea of extra devotions. You could also abstain from another food - sweets or coffee/tea/soda perhaps.

When we are invited to eat at someone’s house or go out with family/riends, we don’t abstain if that would make the meal more difficult for the host or cause ruffled feathers. Usually, we’ll say some additional prayers that night. I really like the idea of saying the stations as a friday penance.

As for why no one told you - probably because the rule isn’t well understood. When the change was made it was meant to bring a more spiritual component into our rememberance of Christ’s passion. However, the only part that caught on was “now we can eat meat on Friday’s”. Because the alternate penance was up to each individual, natural laziness kicked in and very few people picked a consistent penance.

There is also the effect of comparison - it’s one thing to not eat meat when every other Catholic around you isn’t either. It another thing to say “I go to the church to do the Stations of the Cross every Friday” when the person next to you had planned to say a couple extra Hail Marys. You can’t really compare individual penances, no one wanted to brag or feel like they weren’t doing enough, so everyone just stopped talking about it.
 
=karennascargo3;9913542]As a fairly new Catholic, I had quite a surprise yesterday. While looking at a Catholic site I discovered that the no-meat-on-Friday has never been done away with; rather we are to either abstain or do a penance instead.
Why is this not taught or even brought up in our local parishes or diocese or why would it not be taught in RICA? I’m stunned because it’s like it’s just totally ignored. When I asked a Catholic friend, she just said, “Catholics don’t practice that any more”. Is this really true?
It still would be a good thing to tell new Catholics and let them determine for themselves the validity of this requirement. It’s difficult when your new and trying to be a good Catholic and do what is pleasing to God. I get kind of down and discouraged that we have so few good examples or even know what we are to do or not to do to be in compliance with Catholic practices. Sometimes I feel like it’s pick and choose which ones to follow and which ones not to. I know that’s true of all faiths, but newbies should at least be *made aware *of the Church’s requirements.
Okay, rant over. 😉
My real question is that I’m not sure I know what would be an acceptable ‘penance’ if I choose to partake of meat on Friday instead. What would be some examples of this type of penance? I looked online but couldn’t find any examples.
Every person in authority must answer that personally. There are a number of possibilities.

Now that you Do KNow, Do what is RIGHT:)

Welcome home,

Pat /PJM
 
As for why no one told you - probably because the rule isn’t well understood. When the change was made it was meant to bring a more spiritual component into our rememberance of Christ’s passion. However, the only part that caught on was “now we can eat meat on Friday’s”. Because the alternate penance was up to each individual, natural laziness kicked in and very few people picked a consistent penance.

There is also the effect of comparison - it’s one thing to not eat meat when every other Catholic around you isn’t either. It another thing to say “I go to the church to do the Stations of the Cross every Friday” when the person next to you had planned to say a couple extra Hail Marys. You can’t really compare individual penances, no one wanted to brag or feel like they weren’t doing enough, so everyone just stopped talking about it.
This is probably the single best summation of the situation I have seen so far.
 
In the USA, the practice of penance on every Friday (for the Latin Church) is not obligatory anymore, rather recommended (voluntary). The change dates back to November 18, 1966 norms of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (NCBB) on penitential observance for the Liturgical Year, which continue in force since they are law and are not contrary to the 1983 code of canon law (see CIC canon 6). That the norms state voluntary penance on most Fridays of the year was shown in the NCCB document in 1983, The Challenge of Peace:
Code:
298. As a tangible sign of our need and desire to do penance we, for the cause of peace, commit ourselves to fast and abstinence on each Friday of the year. We call upon our people voluntarily to do penance on Friday by eating less food and by abstaining from meat. This return to a traditional practice of penance, once well observed in the U.S. Church, should be accompanied by works of charity and service toward our neighbors. Every Friday should be a day significantly devoted to prayer, penance, and almsgiving for peace.
old.usccb.org/sdwp/international/TheChallengeofPeace.pdf

Mr. Colin B. Donovan, STL (Licentiate in Sacred Theology), summed up (for the USA not for Canada):

“On the Fridays outside of Lent the U.S. bishops conference obtained the permission of the Holy See for Catholics in the US to substitute a penitential, or even a charitable, practice of their own choosing. Since this was not stated as binding under pain of sin, not to do so on a single occasion would not in itself be sinful. However, since penance is a divine command, the general refusal to do penance is certainly gravely sinful. For most people the easiest way to consistently fulfill this command is the traditional one, to abstain from meat on all Fridays of the year which are not liturgical solemnities. When solemnities, such as the Annunciation, Assumption, All Saints etc. fall on a Friday, we neither abstain or fast.”

ewtn.com/faith/lent/fast.htm
 
Thank you so much for your “rant” and all the clarifications that were offered. When I reconciled with the Churh in 2005 I was taken aback at all the changes.

I don’t eat meat on Friday even though I was informed that it is okay to do so. So little to ask in remembrance of such a great sacrifice.
 
Thank you so much for your “rant” and all the clarifications that were offered. When I reconciled with the Churh in 2005 I was taken aback at all the changes.

I don’t eat meat on Friday even though I was informed that it is okay to do so. So little to ask in remembrance of such a great sacrifice.
I don’t east meat on Friday either. I noticed a trend in the workplace, to have extra food on Friday’s (like bagels). When there is a lunch out it is usually on Friday, and that usually mean a *lot *of food. There is extra food at work often on Friday (like bagels) which is an influence away from the meat abstinence and partaking of less food on Friday.
 
My real question is that I’m not sure I know what would be an acceptable ‘penance’ if I choose to partake of meat on Friday instead. What would be some examples of this type of penance? I looked online but couldn’t find any examples.
Give up Chocolate.
Or desserts
Or morning coffee.
Or soft drinks, if you consume several a day normally.
Or alcohol.
Television
Internet

My wife and I generally adhere to the no-meat rule. Although it could be said that shrimp scampi or grilled salmon aren’t really keeping with the *spirit *of abstinence, going meatless does put a crimp on things a little. Tuna Helper gets old week after week. And when we leave town for the weekend, Friday dinner on the road is a choice between bean burritos or fish filet sandwiches, or possibly a Subway tuna sandwich.
 
My wife and I generally adhere to the no-meat rule. Although it could be said that shrimp scampi or grilled salmon aren’t really keeping with the *spirit *of abstinence, going meatless does put a crimp on things a little.
🙂 Indeed. A couple of Fridays ago I actually went to Red Lobster and ate their ‘Ultimate Feast’. Yeah, I thought to myself sarcastically “oh my, how I sacrifice so”. But I had a $25 gift certificate for that restaurant that I’d been meaning to use.
Tuna Helper gets old week after week.
As do frozen fish sticks. 😃

All joking aside though, and as you eluded to, I always think of what a tiny sacrifice it is for me to dodge meat one day a week considering the great sacrifice our Lord made for all of us. That little Friday penance simply helps keep my mind trained on HIM. Praise God.
 
To OP…I’m very sad to say that you will find majority of Catholics today in the U.S. do not follow most of the teachings of the CCC, these are called “Cafeteria Catholics” or “lukewarm” Catholics. I too have only been with the Church for a short time (6 years) and have also been astonished at the lack of instruction from RCIA or even those around me that consider themselves to be faithful Catholics. The bottom line is…any many will disagree with this comment…to be a faithful Catholic, we are called to follow everything in the Magisterium (not just the things we like or agree with). This means being faithful in things that seem small to many, such as making the sacrifice to not eat meat on Fridays or offering another penance in place of it, to the bigger things such as not using artificial contraception etc.

Your best bet in becoming a faithful Catholic is to start your journey with familiarizing yourself with the Catechism of the Catholic Church and following it in your everyday life and reading the Gospels every day to get to know Jesus better and attend Mass as frequently as you can in addition to Sundays. Also, do not be afraid to educate the “cafeteria Catholics” to either inform them of what they weren’t taught or to speak against their misaligned notions of what constitutes a faithful Catholic. Willful ignorance is no excuse for any Catholic because we all have the ability to read the CCC regularly, and not just when we need to find an answer. Best wishes and God Bless you during your faith journey!
 
I’m going to preface my response by saying that I rejoice in your commitment to the teachings of the Church, and I think that in general, we would probably agree on many issues. Also, it is quite possible that your speaking style is more charitable than your writing style, but I can only go by what I can see.
To OP…I’m very sad to say that you will find majority of Catholics today in the U.S. do not follow most of the teachings of the CCC, these are called “Cafeteria Catholics” or “lukewarm” Catholics. I too have only been with the Church for a short time (6 years) and have also been astonished at the lack of instruction from RCIA or even those around me that consider themselves to be faithful Catholics.
I think you need to cut people some slack. For at least 20 years (possibly more like 30), starting about 40 years ago, catechesis was frequently poor. People who were raised in that time don’t necessarily know they are missing something. If you go up to them and call them lukewarm and Cafeteria Catholics and so forth for not following teachings they were unaware of, they will not listen to you because you have offended them. Assuming that people are doing the best they know is required of you by charity, until you have actual evidence to the contrary.

Keep in mind that some priests have made the problem worse, by saying things in homilies that aren’t in accordance with the teachings of the Church (e.g. regarding artifical birth control), or by omitting to say things that are teachings of the Church, for fear of offending people.

In any case, I’m pretty sure that saying that the majority of US Catholics don’t follow most of the teachings of the Church, is probably wrong, unless you are including baptized Catholics who have fallen away from the Church.
The bottom line is…any many will disagree with this comment…to be a faithful Catholic, we are called to follow everything in the Magisterium (not just the things we like or agree with).
In fact, I think most (not all) of the Catholics on this forum would agree with this statement. I certainly do. Included in the teachings of the Church that I follow is the one that says “Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense…” (CCC#1860)
Your best bet in becoming a faithful Catholic is to start your journey with familiarizing yourself with the Catechism of the Catholic Church and following it in your everyday life and reading the Gospels every day to get to know Jesus better and attend Mass as frequently as you can in addition to Sundays.
This is great advice.
Also, do not be afraid to educate the “cafeteria Catholics” to either inform them of what they weren’t taught or to speak against their misaligned notions of what constitutes a faithful Catholic.
This is less great advice. There is a lack of charity in assuming that everyone who doesn’t know everything is a “Cafeteria Catholic” that really needs to be fixed before the information you give is likely to help people.

For example, when I was growing up, this new Catechism didn’t exist. I never heard even of the Baltimore Catechism until I was an adult, because it was considered too old-fashioned to teach from, I guess. Had I been unfortunate enough to be somewhere where the Catechism isn’t mentioned at Mass, and/or had I never left the Church, I wouldn’t know that I needed to read it.

If a convert (or anyone else) came up to me to “educate” me, with a manner that shows that she considers herself “faithful” and me only a “cafeteria Catholic,” and mentioned the Catechism, it would only be likely to make me not want to read it.

I have been greatly blessed with knowledge. I have personally read the entire Catechism, and most parts of it more than once. I have read the entire Bible several times. I follow all of the teachings of the Church that I am aware of. I also assume that for people who don’t do so, it is either because they don’t understand, or don’t know of the teachings. Sometimes they say they know of them and understand them and just disagree, and then I might think of them as “Cafeteria Catholics.” 🙂 But unless they say so, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

"Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
  • of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;… " (CCC #2477)
Willful ignorance is no excuse for any Catholic because we all have the ability to read the CCC regularly, and not just when we need to find an answer.
Of course, if they are ignorant of the need to do so… 🙂

However, I don’t think the thing about doing penance on every Friday is even in the Catechism. I think it’s in the Code of Canon Law, which nobody expects every Catholic to read. And it makes sense that it is there because the Catechism is supposed to be universal, and the exact requirements for Fridays are only a discipline of the Latin Rite.

All the Catechism has is, “The seasons and days of penance in the course of the liturgical year (Lent, and each Friday in memory of the death of the Lord) are intense moments of the Church’s penitential practice. These times are particularly appropriate for spiritual exercises, penitential liturgies, pilgrimages as signs of penance, voluntary self-denial such as fasting and almsgiving, and fraternal sharing (charitable and missionary works).” (CCC #1438)

A person could be excused if they had read that and didn’t realize it indicated any specific obligation.

–Jen
 

However, I don’t think the thing about doing penance on every Friday is even in the Catechism. I think it’s in the Code of Canon Law, which nobody expects every Catholic to read. And it makes sense that it is there because the Catechism is supposed to be universal, and the exact requirements for Fridays are only a discipline of the Latin Rite.

All the Catechism has is, “The seasons and days of penance in the course of the liturgical year (Lent, and each Friday in memory of the death of the Lord) are intense moments of the Church’s penitential practice. These times are particularly appropriate for spiritual exercises, penitential liturgies, pilgrimages as signs of penance, voluntary self-denial such as fasting and almsgiving, and fraternal sharing (charitable and missionary works).” (CCC #1438)

A person could be excused if they had read that and didn’t realize it indicated any specific obligation.

–Jen
Also:2041 The precepts of the Church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by liturgical life. The obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is meant to guarantee to the faithful the very necessary minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor:

2043 The fourth precept (“You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church”) ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.85
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top