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Petrovavanova
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First & foremost, let me tell you that I’m a huge fan of yours. As my friend, you always seem to be there when needed.
read this post here
read this post here
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poche
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do you know anybody who is in the hospital - you could visit them or you could visit a sick person in their home. You could say an extra five decades of the rosary You could go to mass You could make the stations of the cross -
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TCostello
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I understand and have heard this from many Catholics that catechesis has been lacking over the decades, but that is still no excuse to assume that the education received as a child is complete or that it gives an adult a free pass to just stop learning about the Faith. This is what I was referring to when I mentioned “willful ignorance”…this has nothing to do with “unintentional ignorance”. They are two entirely different things. Common sense tells us that we will never know all there is to know about God, Holy Church, or Our Faith. The CCC was not available until recently; however, it is available now and those lacking in catechism training have a wonderful source of information and if it doesn’t provide the exact information one needs then look to another reputable source. For example, my Daily Missal has all the information regarding Fasting and Abstinence in the U.S. as well as a wealth of other information any Catholic needs to know. My point is that it is not difficult for any adult Catholic to educate themselves.
Also, when I mentioned “educating” the less than faithful Catholics, I was not referring to a blatant stand off with another person based upon rash judgment of a neighbor. For example, I was involved in a conversation with another Catholic mother about having more children (I have 5) and she asked if we will have more. My response was that it is up to God and her response was that she had been pressured to be sterilized by her OB Dr. with her last child because she had become a high risk for any future pregnancies. She decided against the sterilization, but thought it was perfectly okay to use artificial contraception in its place. I simply explained to her that contraception is forbidden by the Church to be used to prevent pregnancy. She then explained to me that she was told it was okay by her RCIA instructors and that the Church was going to change that position. My response to her was that it has not been changed and that it is still a mortal sin. I left it at that and at no point called her a cafeteria Catholic or anything of the sort, nor would I ever approach someone in that way. However, I had informed her of the truth and what she did with it is between her and God and she is no longer “ignorant” with regards to that teaching of the Church. This is only one type of example that comes up in life with other Catholics and when the opportunity arises to help someone save their soul and learn the truths of the Church and we have an obligation to speak up and help save that soul as well as our own…not be scared that we may offend someone. Charity is not synonymous with nice. It is uncharitable to withhold the truth out of fear for any reason. Do you think it was uncharitable that Jesus ran out the money changers from the temple by overturning their tables??? We’re not here to be popular, we’re here to save souls!
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revert_jen
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All people, cradle Catholics, Protestants, everyone needs to have continuous conversion. Every day, we need to dedicate ourselves to God. The only thing we can do to aid in that is pray for them. It has to come from the Holy Spirit.
Common sense is less common than one might wish.
I agree, but the problem is that people really don’t realize that they need to do it. So we need to pray for them to realize it, rather than blaming them for not doing it.
I understand. But if you are blaming them in your heart, then they will to some extent feel that when they are talking to you. By all means, share the truth. But at the same time you have to realize that they may be in genuine error, not willful ignorance.
Completely unrelated side note: I really hate that doctors are so ready to do this. I had a friend whose OB was pressuring her to be sterilized immediately (a couple of hours) after the birth of her third child. There wasn’t even anything wrong with her health, the doctor just decided that he didn’t think she and her husband had enough money for more children. Argh, argh argh!!!
But you see, from her standpoint, wouldn’t an RCIA instructor be a more reliable source of information? The problem here is the instructor. If the instructor is at your parish, you might want to have a chat with him/her and mention that you’re sure s/he didn’t mean to create this impression, but… and that maybe it would be a good idea for the RCIA instructor to clarify this point with the woman.
I understand–it’s hard to tell from one post.
Well the problem is, if you offend someone, you probably won’t help them. That is why it is important, yes, to tell the truth, but to do it in the least potentially offensive way possible, “speaking the truth in love.” It is extremely difficult to do that if you are judging them (in your heart) for not knowng it already.
–Jen
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Kathrin
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I don’t eat meat anyway, so that is not a real penance for me, so I figured I should do something else extra.
For a while I tried not to eat sweets on Friday but a few months ago I changed it and now my extra thing is that I try to do extra little acts of love-of-neighbor and patience on Fridays. For example I let others go first even when I am stressed (I am not really good at this yet…) or not take a good seat on the streetcar but pass it by so somebody else can sit…re-open the door when I see somebody coming even though I am in a hurry… or say something extra to make somebody feel good, that maybe I wouldn’t have said otherwise… or NOT say something that I might have had a right to say but as a sacrifice I don’t say it, I know I have a problem with patience so these things are a good penace for me…
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For a while I tried not to eat sweets on Friday but a few months ago I changed it and now my extra thing is that I try to do extra little acts of love-of-neighbor and patience on Fridays. For example I let others go first even when I am stressed (I am not really good at this yet…) or not take a good seat on the streetcar but pass it by so somebody else can sit…re-open the door when I see somebody coming even though I am in a hurry… or say something extra to make somebody feel good, that maybe I wouldn’t have said otherwise… or NOT say something that I might have had a right to say but as a sacrifice I don’t say it, I know I have a problem with patience so these things are a good penace for me…
)))
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englishredrose
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If you’re serious about finding suitable penance then my advice would be to find a spiritual director and discuss it all with them because they will also help you to fully understand what the penance is all about. Its not just about to make you suffer because you disobeyed a rule. A good director will guide you and you will feel more fulfilled and the advice wouldn’t be conflicting as you wouldn’t need to find extra information on the net. Sounds like that you are ready for a spiritual director so that you can channel and learn for yourself through them.
peace
xxx
peace
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karennascargo3
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What is a spiritual director and how do I find one?
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Vico
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For some it would be. Those that do not eat meat or wine or dairy, partly, or perpetually, for a good reason, even though they like it, it is a self-discipline and a sacrifice.I don’t eat meat anyway, so that is not a real penance for me, so I figured I should do something else extra.
For a while I tried not to eat sweets on Friday but a few months ago I changed it and now my extra thing is that I try to do extra little acts of love-of-neighbor and patience on Fridays. For example I let others go first even when I am stressed (I am not really good at this yet…) or not take a good seat on the streetcar but pass it by so somebody else can sit…re-open the door when I see somebody coming even though I am in a hurry… or say something extra to make somebody feel good, that maybe I wouldn’t have said otherwise… or NOT say something that I might have had a right to say but as a sacrifice I don’t say it, I know I have a problem with patience so these things are a good penace for me…
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englishredrose
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I am not sure how you guys ask for one but the Anglicans have a website page on on there are lists of people to contact for whom in England. May be you have that accessible in America I don’t know? Failing that, ask your priest and he might volunteer if he is a spiritual director or sign post you. Ring the Parish office to find out. Not all Spiritual Directors are Priests. But you will learn a lot more about yourself and how God is the centre of your life through the process. A very worthwhile journey.
peace
xxx
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thewanderer
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Just to put another perspective out there, the point of abstaining from meat was for the sake of turning fridays into a sacrificial day, its not just about a remembrance or something. Personally, I really like the fact that the Bishops emphasized that other penances/sacrifices are allowed for this because not eating meat one day a week really just is not a sacrifice for me (and I am by no means a vegetarian). It just isn’t a big deal to go one day without putting meat into my meals. So for me, not eating meat is not at all sacrificial and so really doesn’t help me at all to keep in touch with the sacrificial and penitential nature of the day. For me it is just a remembrance that that used to be the hallmark way Catholics kept that day as sacrificial. Which means that I will still try to avoid eating meat, but that I feel like that in itself is not sufficient to follow the spirit of the law. As for what is sufficient, well, that depends on the individual. Just take a good honest look at yourself, and find some sacrifice/penance which will help fridays take on a sacrificial aspect for you. It doesn’t matter what other people are doing, what matters is that you do something which helps you to see fridays as a day of penance/sacrifice in remembrane of Christ’s ultimate sacrifice for himself on the cross. The reason the Church doesn’t give specifics is to try and get people to follow the spirit of the law, not hte letter of the law, so each individual must take a good look at themselves to figure out what works for them for this purpose.
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Portrait
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Dear revert_jen,You can find some information about this from the USCCB here:
old.usccb.org/doctrine/penitential.shtml
It’s a little vague, but it has some ideas.
Of course, for those in the UK, it’s a lot easier because the requirement to abstain from meat on all Fridays has been restored. I choose the easy route myself except for extraordinary situations (e.g. a Friday dinner party at someone’s house).
I am a cradle Catholic, but I never knew about the penitential requirements for Fridays until I came back to the Church after being away. It is possible that you didn’t learn about it in RCIA because the instructor didn’t know.
–Jen
Cordial greetings and a very good day.
As a resident of the UK myself, dear friend, I thought it was a splendid idea to reinstate Friday abstinence, especially given the radically materialistic times in which our lot is now cast - a jolly good antidote to being too earthbound, if approached in a proper and earnest manner. Whilst for the United States the obligation for Friday abstinence has been abrogated, the faithful can, notwithstanding, continue to forgo meat on Friday’s as a praiseworthy, voluntary act of self-denial - “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me” (St. Lk. 9: 23). Who does not need self-denial in these days of ‘Catholicism Lite’ and widespread conformity to the godless world?
However, the focus of Friday abstinence ought surely to be upon the day rather than upon forgoing meat, because it was on that Blessed Day that our Saviour gave up His life for us men and our salvation in misery and suffering. Where Friday abstinence is mandatory, the eating of meat on Friday does not defile a man, but his interior disposition of ingratitude and disobedience most certianly does. If a man is not prepared to abstain from a little meat on the day that Christ gave up His life, then that is very poor show indeed for one who professes religion, dear friend.
The Friday abstinence has kept Our Lord’s sacrifice and death before the minds of multitudes of Catholics down through the ages and it is important that one sees the beauty of this devotedness to Christ. Hopefully, it’s restoration here in the UK will facilitate such a devotedness and help promote the pursuit of sanctity and separation from the world, especially among the youth.
God bless.
Warmest good wishes,
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revert_jen
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Yes, of course you are right. It’s just that the focus of the thread is on the penitential acts for Friday.
BTW, I didn’t mean to imply that those in the UK were “getting off easy” I just meant that they had an easy time deciding what to do–none of this “is this a good enough substitute penance” and so forth.
–Jen
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Kathrin
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I know.
Still somehow I feel Friday should be in some way “special”? So I prefer adding some other small penance, which is also a spiritual exercise
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Kathrin
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Isn’t it that any preist can become your spiritual director? That you can ask a priest you trust, maybe somebody you regularly or often go to confession to?
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Portrait
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Dear Jen,Yes, of course you are right. It’s just that the focus of the thread is on the penitential acts for Friday.
BTW, I didn’t mean to imply that those in the UK were “getting off easy” I just meant that they had an easy time deciding what to do–none of this “is this a good enough substitute penance” and so forth.
–Jen
Cordial greetings. That is quite alright and I appreciate what you are saying, dear friend.
Where Friday abstinence is not obligatory, as in the US, then the improtant thing is that some other penance in lieu of abstaining from meat is done. Penitential acts could take many forms, dear friend, including fasting and abstinence, prayer, giving to the poor, fulfilling the daily duties of one’s vocation and patiently bearing the hardships and uncertainties of each day’s struggle. Much would, of course, depend on a man’s circumstances. Those who are comfortably well-off, for example, will certainly need to practice more self-denial so as to keep in check a worldly and unfeeling heart, whilst the poor can offer their suffering to the Father, in union with the suffering of Christ.
God bless.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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Vico
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Pope Paul VI said in 1966 regarding the choice of Friday:
In order that all the faithful, however, may be united in a common celebration of penitence, the Apostolic See intends to establish certain penitential days and seasons(63) chosen among those which in the course of the liturgical year are closer to the paschal mystery of Christ(64) or might be required by the special needs of the ecclesial community.(65)
And that for the developed countries the fasting is preferred:In the first place, Holy Mother Church, although it has always observed in a special way abstinence from meat and fasting, nevertheless wants to indicate in the traditional triad of “prayer—fasting—charity” the fundamental means of complying with the divine precepts of penitence. These means were the same throughout the centuries, but in our time there are special reasons whereby, according to the demands of various localities, it is necessary to inculcate some special form of penitence in preference to others.(60) Therefore, where economic well-being is greater, so much more will the witness of asceticism have to be given in order that the sons of the Church may not be involved in the spirit of the “world,”(61) and at the same time the witness of charity will have to be given to the brethren who suffer poverty and hunger beyond any barrier of nation or continent.(62) On the other hand, in countries where the standard of living is lower, it will be more pleasing to God the Father and more useful to the members of the Body of Christ if Christians—while they seek in every way to promote better social justice—offer their suffering in prayer to the Lord in close union with the Cross of Christ.
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19660217_paenitemini_en.html
In order that all the faithful, however, may be united in a common celebration of penitence, the Apostolic See intends to establish certain penitential days and seasons(63) chosen among those which in the course of the liturgical year are closer to the paschal mystery of Christ(64) or might be required by the special needs of the ecclesial community.(65)
And that for the developed countries the fasting is preferred:In the first place, Holy Mother Church, although it has always observed in a special way abstinence from meat and fasting, nevertheless wants to indicate in the traditional triad of “prayer—fasting—charity” the fundamental means of complying with the divine precepts of penitence. These means were the same throughout the centuries, but in our time there are special reasons whereby, according to the demands of various localities, it is necessary to inculcate some special form of penitence in preference to others.(60) Therefore, where economic well-being is greater, so much more will the witness of asceticism have to be given in order that the sons of the Church may not be involved in the spirit of the “world,”(61) and at the same time the witness of charity will have to be given to the brethren who suffer poverty and hunger beyond any barrier of nation or continent.(62) On the other hand, in countries where the standard of living is lower, it will be more pleasing to God the Father and more useful to the members of the Body of Christ if Christians—while they seek in every way to promote better social justice—offer their suffering in prayer to the Lord in close union with the Cross of Christ.
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19660217_paenitemini_en.html
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