Friend and male lover

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BouncingBall

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Hi all!

I am lost as to what to do about my friend. She has friends-with-benefits thing going on with a guy who is in RCIA (I know because she told me)😊. She wants me to listen to her when she wants to discuss the guy to me, and so forth. I have told her that I don’t want to talk about the friend-with-benefits because giving advice about him violates my Catholic moral convictions i.e. I don’t want to be seen as approving of the relationship.

(I am no saint and I have a sex past but with God’s help I have cleaned up my act in that area.)

My friend told me that I am being judgmental about the male lover and that “if you are so holy and Catholic then you shouldn’t judge because Jesus didn’t judge people.”

It angers me that the male lover is in RCIA and carrying on like this… probably because I am an RCIA instructor.

Fellow Christians, what do you advise me to do?
 
I’d tell her each and every time she tries to bring up their sex life that pre-marital sex is a mortal sin, you aren’t being judgmental by pointing out the teachings of the Church and are doing so in the spirit of fraternal correction because you care, and ask that she either stop having pre-marital sex and become chaste like you did or at least not talk about the subject with you. You might also add that caring about another human being means caring about their soul and by continuing to have pre-marital sex she is endangering her own soul and the soul of her lover.

Good luck! I truly hope your friend comes round.
 
Teach them the truth with love.

CCC

Offenses against chastity

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#2353

Peace
 
BouncingBall said:
My friend told me that I am being judgmental about the male lover and that “if you are so holy and Catholic then you shouldn’t judge because Jesus didn’t judge people.”

Fellow Christians, what do you advise me to do?
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Speak the truth in love. It is maddening when you call a sin a sin and the “thou shall not judge” card gets pulled out so quickly. It is not judging to tell someone that they engaged in a sinful act. We are called to do that with love. Could you present it as being judgemental? Sure. That is why you must be careful to stick to the truths found in the teachings of the Church.

Ask questions. Ask what they understand about the Church’s teachings on sexuality. Be willing to provide them with resources found in the Catechism or even books relating to Blessed John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body.”
 
BouncingBall said:
Hi all!

I am lost as to what to do about my friend. She has friends-with-benefits thing going on with a guy who is in RCIA (I know because she told me)😊. She wants me to listen to her when she wants to discuss the guy to me, and so forth. I have told her that I don’t want to talk about the friend-with-benefits because giving advice about him violates my Catholic moral convictions i.e. I don’t want to be seen as approving of the relationship.

(I am no saint and I have a sex past but with God’s help I have cleaned up my act in that area.)

My friend told me that I am being judgmental about the male lover and that “if you are so holy and Catholic then you shouldn’t judge because Jesus didn’t judge people.”

It angers me that the male lover is in RCIA and carrying on like this… probably because I am an RCIA instructor.

Fellow Christians, what do you advise me to do?
Click to expand...
If none of the good advise from previous posters helps, simply tell her that you just don’t want to talk about her (or anyone else’s) sex life. Tell her that you are not judging, but that you simply don’t want to discuss something that isn’t any of your business. 🙂
 
Mirror_Mirror said:
Speak the truth in love. It is maddening when you call a sin a sin and the “thou shall not judge” card gets pulled out so quickly. It is not judging to tell someone that they engaged in a sinful act. We are called to do that with love. Could you present it as being judgemental? Sure. That is why you must be careful to stick to the truths found in the teachings of the Church.

Ask questions. Ask what they understand about the Church’s teachings on sexuality. Be willing to provide them with resources found in the Catechism or even books relating to Blessed John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body.”
Click to expand...
This is a good read relative to this discussion
 
Jesus DOES and WILL judge!! Nominal Christians in particular like to bring up a false notion of what Christ meant when we are not to judge one another.

While Christ will judge our sins at the end of our lives and at the end of time, we are called to discern sin and help others avoid sin. This is NOT what Christ condemned when He taught we are not to judge our neighbor. By this he meant we cannot pretend to know that a person will in fact be damned by any particular act or belief. HOWEVER, we can discern what actions are in fact deadly sins in order to avoid them, and are in fact required in LOVE to point out these sins to ourselves and those we love!

So perhaps instead of simply saying you do not want to discuss the issue she is raising to you, ask her how she expects you to give good advice to her that condones her sinful behavior if it you believe it could ultimately endanger her soul. Since you are a true friend, real advice will only be that which provides the most good for her, and her salvation is the ultimate good!
 
We are not to judge people…for example, we aren’t to say who is going to hell and not, judge a person’s soul, since we don’t know the circumstances or heart.

However, often, we can say whether or not an action itself is moral or not, given the circumstances. We know the Bible, and Christ, encouraged morality. To try to imply that Christ would be okay with immoral behavior as a form of rationalization/justification is really “grasping at straws”.

The Bible says not to be fooled, that fornicators will not go to heaven, and Christ didn’t refute that. In fact, he said if we loved God, to obey the commandments.
 
My friend told me that I am being judgmental about the male lover and that “if you are so holy and Catholic then you shouldn’t judge because Jesus didn’t judge people.”
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:rotfl:

I wish I 5 bucks every time someone said “you can’t JUDGE me or my friend!!”

That’s not judging, that doesn’t even sound fraternal on your part; all you did was give your opinion, and well done at that! 👍
Fellow Christians, what do you advise me to do?
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Not sure if there is much you can do impactfully right now, but the only thing I can suggest at this time is to be fraternal and patient.
 
This is some good advice, you guys!

I had been visiting her for a few days but after that “since you’re so holy” thing I knew I had to go back home the next day (and I did, instead of staying the full time).

It felt like the devil was speaking through her, no lie.

Scenario: We had just gone to Mass and I received but she didn’t. After I returned to my seat I prayed that she would go to confession soon and also be able to receive again, and when we got back to her house that’s when the “holy Catholic” thing got said.

What drives me crazy(er) is that the male lover is actively in RCIA as we speak and still doing this. I hope that he gets the grace to lead a more holy life once he’s fully received in the Church.

I will keep saying “this is a sin, by the way” ad nauseum until she picks someone else to talk about the man with but it is physically painful to listen to her stories.

I am sure this is confusing to her since we used to trade notes on our “dates” back in the day.
 
BouncingBall said:
This is some good advice, you guys!

I had been visiting her for a few days but after that “since you’re so holy” thing I knew I had to go back home the next day (and I did, instead of staying the full time).

It felt like the devil was speaking through her, no lie.

Scenario: We had just gone to Mass and I received but she didn’t. After I returned to my seat I prayed that she would go to confession soon and also be able to receive again, and when we got back to her house that’s when the “holy Catholic” thing got said.

What drives me crazy(er) is that the male lover is actively in RCIA as we speak and still doing this. I hope that he gets the grace to lead a more holy life once he’s fully received in the Church.

I will keep saying “this is a sin, by the way” ad nauseum until she picks someone else to talk about the man with but it is physically painful to listen to her stories.

I am sure this is confusing to her since we used to trade notes on our “dates” back in the day.
Click to expand...
I somehow doubt that this is “confusing” to her. Irritating is more like it. She thought she had you pegged as to what sins you would wink at, and she guessed wrong.

Does she feel the same way about people who tell her that she’s taking illegal tax deductions…that is, does she think a retort that they do the same thing is going to help her one bit if she’s audited by the IRS? Who does she think she’s fooling? If she were speeding and you tell her what the speed limit is, does she think that shutting you up is going to change the speed limit for her? If it is wrong, she needs to quit doing it, and anyone who reminds her of that is doing her a favor. (You can show her the list of the seven spiritual works of mercy, which includes “admonishing the sinner.”)

If she does not like that, then make her this offer: If she goes to Father and tells him the same thing and he tells her that he will not say a thing against the way she’s conducting herself and instead turns on you for being so self-righteous as to admonish her when she confides in you, you’ll accept his correction and learn to bite your tongue. I somehow doubt she’ll take you up on it. :rolleyes:
 
Hi all! Update on the situation:

Now my friend has realized the bad fruits of her conduct. The guy in question (now fully received into the Church) is moving out of state to be with his girlfriend. He also told my friend that he won’t think about her (my friend) anymore when he moves and that he will never call her again. Later he said that he said those words out of frustration.

Anyway, I decided to start praying for my friend, and I enlisted two other devout Christians to also pray for her. Newsflash; I started being attacked by the enemy.

Back to the bad fruits… my friend increasingly has trouble sleeping and has been depressed about the guy moving away. I told her to go to confession and that her two other friends won’t tell her because they don’t love and care for her soul as I do. Her reply was that I’m more religious than them, so my advice is discounted.
**
So, how many times am I supposed to exhort her to go to confession before I can give up, without having to face judgment from Jesus about this?** I can’t tell if she’s in the grip of the enemy really tightly or if she’s just stubborn or has a mental problem (I told her that she needs to seek psychological help about her choices in unavailable men).

Thanks for your continued advice!
 
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