Friend believes philosophy is stupid

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I cannot really provide my friend with any philosophical proofs for God because he practically denies the existence of philosophy. He doesn’t like that I study philosophy because he thinks that philosophy is self-contradictory and pointless because it tries to make sense out of a metaphysical world which is chaotic. My friend is a raging atheist who has made a religion out of science, frequently pointing out how it is more superior than philosophy because it has definite proofs and verifiable evidence. Since philosophical proofs are not tangible and only exist in a metaphysical realm which has no scientific proof, he sees no reason to believe why metaphysical laws or philosophy exist at all. How can I convince my friend that philosophy is in fact real and a very important discipline?
 
It’s better to believe and be wrong , than wrong not to believe
 
I think the most effective way to change his heart is to witness a good Christian life and pray for him.
 
Science is entirely based on the principle of the uniformity of nature. Deductive philosophy relies on the absolute guarantee of truth.

Science is limited in it’s entirety to what we observe.

Maybe reminding him of that may help him to see the value in philosophy.
 
I cannot really provide my friend with any philosophical proofs for God because he practically denies the existence of philosophy. He doesn’t like that I study philosophy because he thinks that philosophy is self-contradictory and pointless because it tries to make sense out of a metaphysical world which is chaotic. My friend is a raging atheist who has made a religion out of science, frequently pointing out how it is more superior than philosophy because it has definite proofs and verifiable evidence. Since philosophical proofs are not tangible and only exist in a metaphysical realm which has no scientific proof, he sees no reason to believe why metaphysical laws or philosophy exist at all. How can I convince my friend that philosophy is in fact real and a very important discipline?
For idiological atheists this is a defensive mechanism. They will not admit to anything that threatens their ideological position. And since certain philosophies, like Thomism, does precisely that, they eschew all philosophical thought.

Linus2nd
 
What we now call Science used to be called Natural Philosophy. Philosophy means ‘love of wisdom’ and it consists, in practical terms, in thinking about and investigating the world around us and inside of us. Natural Philosophy or Science simply thinks about and investigates different aspects of that world than does, say, political philosophy or metaphysical philosophy. Science cannot investigate meaning and purpose because it confines itself to proximate outcomes and proximate causes but it cannot deny the possibility that there are ultimate outcomes and ultimate causes which lie beyond the scope of its field. All it can say is that these things are speculative while what it investigates is demonstrable.
 
has made a religion out of science, frequently pointing out how it is more superior than philosophy because it has definite proofs and verifiable evidence.
Ask him what scientific proof he has that science alone is valuable in determining truth. If he cannot site you repeatable empirical studies for this “truth,” then his dogma diffuses itself and you can congratulate him on recognizing his own use of philosophy, even if it’s self-contradictory.
 
I cannot really provide my friend with any philosophical proofs for God because he practically denies the existence of philosophy. He doesn’t like that I study philosophy because he thinks that philosophy is self-contradictory and pointless because it tries to make sense out of a metaphysical world which is chaotic. My friend is a raging atheist who has made a religion out of science, frequently pointing out how it is more superior than philosophy because it has definite proofs and verifiable evidence. Since philosophical proofs are not tangible and only exist in a metaphysical realm which has no scientific proof, he sees no reason to believe why metaphysical laws or philosophy exist at all. How can I convince my friend that philosophy is in fact real and a very important discipline?
You’re not going to convince him. So, don’t worry about it.
 
. . . How can I convince my friend that philosophy is in fact real and a very important discipline?
It sounds like reasoning it out will not convince him.
Your friend does not sound interested in growing intellectually.
In your shoes, the challenge for me would be one of coping with ignorance: more frustration than exhilaration.

Maybe there is something interpersonal going on.
You could be boring him with discussions in which he has no interest
Alternatively, he may feel he is at a disadvantage when he speaks to you.

Maybe you want to convince him so that you can stay connected.
Pursuing their individual interests can take friends in different directions.
Is there something else you could enjoy doing together.
 
I cannot really provide my friend with any philosophical proofs for God because he practically denies the existence of philosophy. He doesn’t like that I study philosophy because he thinks that philosophy is self-contradictory and pointless because it tries to make sense out of a metaphysical world which is chaotic. My friend is a raging atheist who has made a religion out of science, frequently pointing out how it is more superior than philosophy because it has definite proofs and verifiable evidence. Since philosophical proofs are not tangible and only exist in a metaphysical realm which has no scientific proof, he sees no reason to believe why metaphysical laws or philosophy exist at all. How can I convince my friend that philosophy is in fact real and a very important discipline?
Well, first of all, you should have low expectations. Just getting him to feel that a tiny minority of philosophers were not completely useless is likely to be a great success…

Second, even if you will not use it, it might be useful to remember that he has it backwards. Natural science does not specialise in “definite proofs”, but there are some of those in Philosophy. You might wish to read plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0020124 (Ioannidis JPA (2005) Why Most Published Research Findings Are False. PLoS Med 2(8): e124. doi:10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124) - the title might overstate things a little, but still… Also, if he is going to become a scientist, just reading or writing a paper or two might “cure” him of such misconceptions. 🙂

Third, you might try to point him towards philosophers who did some work with science (for example, Karl Popper with “falsifiability”). Or, perhaps, a game (“Socrates Jones: Pro Philosopher” kongregate.com/games/ChiefWakamakamu/socrates-jones-pro-philosopher) might do the trick…? 🙂
 
If you are knowledgeable about various Philosophers, ask him some standard philosophical questions they have written about. Leave their names out and just ask him to provide his answer and how he reasoned it out.

Then, when he makes HIS case that mostly agrees with a known Philosopher, disclose that name and writing to him. Tell him he is a budding philosopher himself.

You may not get far because a closed mind is very hard to open. Free will is very strong. But it may be fun to see him squirm when he realizes he uses philosophical reasoning.
 
Point out to him that the scientific method cannot prove that science is the only legitimate source of knowledge.

Also note that, if he brings up the “blind faith in authority” argument, that he does precisely that with scientists; in other words, unless he has Ph.Ds in every science known to man, then he is “just taking someone’s word for it”. He most certainly would not have the time, money, or know-how to learn all of it by himself.

Then again, he could just be rejecting philosophy out-of-hand because he is closed to any arguments for the existence of God (that’s usually what atheists really mean when they say there’s “no evidence for God’s existence”.)
 
I cannot really provide my friend with any philosophical proofs for God because he practically denies the existence of philosophy. He doesn’t like that I study philosophy because he thinks that philosophy is self-contradictory and pointless because it tries to make sense out of a metaphysical world which is chaotic. My friend is a raging atheist who has made a religion out of science, frequently pointing out how it is more superior than philosophy because it has definite proofs and verifiable evidence. Since philosophical proofs are not tangible and only exist in a metaphysical realm which has no scientific proof, he sees no reason to believe why metaphysical laws or philosophy exist at all. How can I convince my friend that philosophy is in fact real and a very important discipline?
Your friend seems to have a very garbled understanding of what philosophy and science are. I’ve seen this belief among my own students (I teach university level biochemistry) that philosophy was nothing more than the imperfect predecessor to science, and now that we have the scientific method we can dispense entirely with philosophy (much like how alchemy preceded chemistry, the former of which is seen as utter nonsense today and the latter is based on empiricism).

There are a couple glaring problems with this belief. To start, the scientific method cannot exist in a philosophical vacuum. Science itself makes some pretty bold philosophical assumptions, without which “science” doesn’t “work”. Namely, the scientific method requires empiricism, which itself is a philosophical school of thought! It is thus folly to see science as being independent of philosophy. Indeed science is philosophy!

Philosophy is the study of thinking, and for your friend to assert that the empiricism of science gives science its credence requires a philosophy of science. The scientific method itself cannot vindicate the scientific method as a worthwhile endeavor. We know this is true because such an argument is circular, and thanks to logic (which itself is philosophy!) we can categorically reject circular arguments.

Another problem with your friend’s belief is that he considers science to have “definite proofs” and, presumably, philosophy to only have tentative proofs. This is completely backwards. Science is inherently inductive, and as such cannot ever “prove” anything true, and no true scientist worth her salt would ever talk about the “proofs of science”. Indeed, the only academic disciplines which can ever “prove” anything are philosophy and mathematics. This is precisely due to the fact that philosophy and math are internally self-referential and contain no referents outside of themselves. Philosophy can be, and math is entirely, deductive. This means we start with absolute premises, assume their truth value, and work our way down (using logic) to absolutely true conclusions. Science, being inductive, can never do this! At best all we can do is say “Here’s all the physical evidence collected, the preponderance of which indicates that X is true, and so we will tentatively conclude that X is true”.
 
Sounds like your friend is too self centered to be interested in anything that doesn’t interest him. 😉

Seriously, he is already a philosopher but doesn’t know it. The principle of science are rooted in rational philosophy. The first scientists were philosophers who built over the centuries the foundations of scientific thought. Aristotle was the philosopher/scientist *par excellence *in the ancient world.

This from Einstein:

“I fully agree with you about the significance and educational value of methodology as well as history and philosophy of science. So many people today - and even professional scientists - seem to me like somebody who has seen thousands of trees but has never seen a forest. A knowledge of the historic and philosophical background gives that kind of independence from prejudices of his generation from which most scientists are suffering. This independence created by philosophical insight is - in my opinion - the mark of distinction between a mere artisan or specialist and a real seeker after truth.” Albert Einstein. letter to Robert A. Thornton, 7 December 1944. EA 61-574.

When your friend tosses aside everything but science he is a seeker of knowledge, but only of a certain kind. He is not a seeker of wisdom. The pursuit of wisdom in all its manifestations is vastly more important than the study of a single scientific discipline. It is the height of arrogance to dismiss philosophy as dead and useless. In his case, it is the intellectual sin of scientism. 🤷
 
"Archaeology is the search for fact … not truth. If it’s truth you’re interested in, Dr. Tyree’s philosophy class is right down the hall.
―Indiana Joness
 
"Archaeology is the search for fact … not truth. If it’s truth you’re interested in, Dr. Tyree’s philosophy class is right down the hall.
―Indiana Jones[s
There is a real problem with that distinction.
[/quote]
 
When investigating reality we can choose to limit our avenues of knowledge or we can choose to expand our avenues of knowledge. Which do you think is likely to achieve greater results?

… also an interesting quote I recently came across :
Insanity is not when we lose our reason, but when we have nothing left but our reason.

Perhaps your friend, in time, will re-evaluate his choice of limiting his avenues of knowledge. Sometimes life experience can persuade where discussion doesn’t.
 
I cannot really provide my friend with any philosophical proofs for God because he practically denies the existence of philosophy. He doesn’t like that I study philosophy because he thinks that philosophy is self-contradictory and pointless because it tries to make sense out of a metaphysical world which is chaotic. My friend is a raging atheist who has made a religion out of science, frequently pointing out how it is more superior than philosophy because it has definite proofs and verifiable evidence. Since philosophical proofs are not tangible and only exist in a metaphysical realm which has no scientific proof, he sees no reason to believe why metaphysical laws or philosophy exist at all. How can I convince my friend that philosophy is in fact real and a very important discipline?
Well, first of all you might quote Heidegger who said that philosophy is an inquiry that makes housemaids laugh. (What is a Thing?, Chicago: Henry Regnery Company, 1967, p. 3, 8)

More to the point, you might make clear to him that his are assertions are philosophical, not scientific. And so by his own convictions he should just stick talking about the findings of science and not pronounce on subjects outside its realm.
 
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