Friend getting married--what's my obligation?

[MomtoEandM]

One of my closest friends is getting married in seven weeks. I will be the Matron of Honor in the wedding. However, I feel that my friend is making a mistake and that this marriage can only end in divorce. What is my moral obligation here? Do I support my friend and trust that she sees something in her future husband that I do not see, or am I obligated to share my concerns with her? If I do share my concerns and she chooses to marry, should I still stand up in the wedding? I don’t want to jeopardize our friendship, but it so hard to sit by and watch her make what I believe is a huge mistake.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

One of my closest friends is getting married in seven weeks. I will be the Matron of Honor in the wedding. However, I feel that my friend is making a mistake and that this marriage can only end in divorce. What is my moral obligation here? Do I support my friend and trust that she sees something in her future husband that I do not see, or am I obligated to share my concerns with her? If I do share my concerns and she chooses to marry, should I still stand up in the wedding? I don’t want to jeopardize our friendship, but it so hard to sit by and watch her make what I believe is a huge mistake.

Are you firmly convicted that she is making a gravely irresponsible decision? If so are you prepared to give up your friendship to admonish her? If so, given your knowledge of this person and the relationship between you, do you believe you have a reasonable chance at swaying her if you do? If the answer to the above three questions are all yes, then say something. If any are no, then forever hold your peace and do what you can as a friend to help her and support her in this decision which is surely hers to make.

Otherwise are you aware of some matter that would invalidate the sacrament? If yes then inform the priest. If no, then forever hold your peace and do what you can as a friend to help her and support her in this decision which is surely hers to make.

 

[Baelor]

I would rather not share my opinion on what you should do, but I do not think that you would be acting immorally either way.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

If you have to, ask your friend one question: “Is your fiance your best friend…your best friend in the whole world?”. If the answer is anything but yes, then tell her she should not marry him. You might also tell her that a divorce is far more expensive than any wedding receptions and festivities…both in terms of money and emotions.

 

[MomtoEandM]

Thank you for the responses. I am still quite torn over this. I have thought and prayed over this, but it is not any clearer to me how I should respond.

Here is some additional information about the situation:

My friend (I’ll call her Lily) is engaged to Dave. Lily is 38 and has always felt called to marriage and particularly to motherhood. She is the oldest of nine, and she has worked as a teacher in a daycare for 15 years. I am worried that she may feel that Dave is her last chance to have biological children and is willing to turn a blind eye to behavior that should not be ignored.

Dave is very controlling. He picked the date of their wedding, the place, what they registered for, and even the wedding colors. The only thing he didn’t pick was the dress. He did tell me when Lily wasn’t around that he’d snuck into her closet to look at her dress, even though she wanted to keep it a surprise. Lily was especially upset about the location of the wedding. They are getting married at a Catholic church near his family (even thought he is Lutheran) instead of her church that she has gone to her entire life. The still haven’t gone to Pre-Cana, even though the wedding is seven weeks away. He says that the church is very “laid back” about things like this (???)

He also insisted that they needed a long engagement (more than 18 months) to save money for the ceremony. He was planning to take extra shifts at work to save up for the wedding. However, he hasn’t taken a single available extra shift in the entire time and has saved no money to pay for wedding expenses. With Lily’s age, every month could be crucial for them if they were to hope to get pregnant. Lily feels that precious time has been lost with nothing to show for it.

I’ve caught him in several untruths and exaggerations, including claiming he’s been on a cruise that it was clear he hadn’t, saying his IQ is over 150, and other weird statements. He also constantly argues about things that have definitive right and wrong answers. He insisted that Orlando is closer to Chicago than Niagara Falls is and was getting angry when I showed him the distances on the map.

One of the most disturbing things is that he has a short temper and is not respectful of other people. He once yelled at a young restaurant server because the server asked to see his ID because the signature on Dave’s credit card wasn’t legible. He claimed the server was calling him a thief and a liar. Even though everyone was telling him that it was for his own protection, he was getting belligerent. He is a sheriff’s deputy, so he should know better. Lily ended up putting down her credit card to diffuse the situation, and Dave stormed out of the restaurant.

I have never seen him do anything abusive to Lily, but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if he did.

Just last week, Lily’s boss told her that she seemed very unhappy and that she should think and pray about whether she really wants to go through with this wedding. Lily claims that they are just fighting before the wedding because wedding planning is so stressful. My DH and I were stressed about some of our wedding planning, but we never got into big arguments about it. She has called me more than once crying about how stressed she is and how much he upsets her.

These are just some examples off the top of my head (and I don’t want to create a 14-page post). He just seems to be an angry, short-tempered, controlling person who doesn’t respect others. I know my friend deserves so much more from a husband. I really think God wants more for her.

I have made some gentle and general statements encouraging her to think this over, but she hasn’t been receptive. I haven’t had a long talk with her where I’ve spelled out all my concerns. I fear that if they do get married, they’ll either end up divorced or she will be miserable for the rest of her life.

I am leaning toward having a very frank discussion with her. However, if she does go through with the wedding, I feel our friendship will be very badly damaged. If she calls it off and never has biological children, I wonder if she will always blame me. It feels like a no-win situation. Any prayers and insights are much appreciated!

 

[Baelor]

I have made some gentle and general statements encouraging her to think this over, but she hasn’t been receptive. I haven’t had a long talk with her where I’ve spelled out all my concerns. I fear that if they do get married, they’ll either end up divorced or she will be miserable for the rest of her life.

I am leaning toward having a very frank discussion with her. However, if she does go through with the wedding, I feel our friendship will be very badly damaged. If she calls it off and never has biological children, I wonder if she will always blame me. It feels like a no-win situation. Any prayers and insights are much appreciated!

I would say the following. First, unlike some individuals (including some on this forum), I do not believe that anything I know about my friends is “none of my business.” I care about them and my priority is helping them. I would not let my friends do anything monumental that was also stupid without telling them first.

You will have to balance your own priorities. Are you willing to end your friendship by having a frank discussion with her? Given that she has been unreceptive in the past, that appears to be a possibility. If she does call off the wedding, would you be okay with being blamed? Do you feel that the chance the friendship will end now is worth your absence in her life in the future?

There are no right answers – you will have to prioritize. That being said, there are few things as life-changing as a marriage, so your concern is perfectly justified.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Thank you for the responses. I am still quite torn over this. I have thought and prayed over this, but it is not any clearer to me how I should respond.

Here is some additional information about the situation:

My friend (I’ll call her Lily) is engaged to Dave. Lily is 38 and has always felt called to marriage and particularly to motherhood. She is the oldest of nine, and she has worked as a teacher in a daycare for 15 years. I am worried that she may feel that Dave is her last chance to have biological children and is willing to turn a blind eye to behavior that should not be ignored.

Dave is very controlling. He picked the date of their wedding, the place, what they registered for, and even the wedding colors. The only thing he didn’t pick was the dress. He did tell me when Lily wasn’t around that he’d snuck into her closet to look at her dress, even though she wanted to keep it a surprise. Lily was especially upset about the location of the wedding. They are getting married at a Catholic church near his family (even thought he is Lutheran) instead of her church that she has gone to her entire life. The still haven’t gone to Pre-Cana, even though the wedding is seven weeks away. He says that the church is very “laid back” about things like this (???)

He also insisted that they needed a long engagement (more than 18 months) to save money for the ceremony. He was planning to take extra shifts at work to save up for the wedding. However, he hasn’t taken a single available extra shift in the entire time and has saved no money to pay for wedding expenses. With Lily’s age, every month could be crucial for them if they were to hope to get pregnant. Lily feels that precious time has been lost with nothing to show for it.

I’ve caught him in several untruths and exaggerations, including claiming he’s been on a cruise that it was clear he hadn’t, saying his IQ is over 150, and other weird statements. He also constantly argues about things that have definitive right and wrong answers. He insisted that Orlando is closer to Chicago than Niagara Falls is and was getting angry when I showed him the distances on the map.

One of the most disturbing things is that he has a short temper and is not respectful of other people. He once yelled at a young restaurant server because the server asked to see his ID because the signature on Dave’s credit card wasn’t legible. He claimed the server was calling him a thief and a liar. Even though everyone was telling him that it was for his own protection, he was getting belligerent. He is a sheriff’s deputy, so he should know better. Lily ended up putting down her credit card to diffuse the situation, and Dave stormed out of the restaurant.

I have never seen him do anything abusive to Lily, but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if he did.

Just last week, Lily’s boss told her that she seemed very unhappy and that she should think and pray about whether she really wants to go through with this wedding. Lily claims that they are just fighting before the wedding because wedding planning is so stressful. My DH and I were stressed about some of our wedding planning, but we never got into big arguments about it. She has called me more than once crying about how stressed she is and how much he upsets her.

These are just some examples off the top of my head (and I don’t want to create a 14-page post). He just seems to be an angry, short-tempered, controlling person who doesn’t respect others. I know my friend deserves so much more from a husband. I really think God wants more for her.

I have made some gentle and general statements encouraging her to think this over, but she hasn’t been receptive. I haven’t had a long talk with her where I’ve spelled out all my concerns. I fear that if they do get married, they’ll either end up divorced or she will be miserable for the rest of her life.

I am leaning toward having a very frank discussion with her. However, if she does go through with the wedding, I feel our friendship will be very badly damaged. If she calls it off and never has biological children, I wonder if she will always blame me. It feels like a no-win situation. Any prayers and insights are much appreciated!

I. Do they have the appropriate dispensations to marry? They need one because he is a Lutheran.

II. To be fair my numbers show 994 miles distance between Orlando and Chicago, and a full 1025 miles between orlando and Niagara falls.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

Many years ago, before I met my DH, I was engaged to marry another man. He left me just a few weeks before the wedding for another girl (who he always claimed was “just a friend,” but that’s a story for another day).

After he dumped me, I found out that NONE of my friends – and I mean absolutely none of them – liked him. But they’d all been afraid to tell me the bad qualities they saw in him and their concerns because they were afraid it would damage our friendship. And there were definite concerns, including his womanizing and controlling tendencies, and there were red flags that suggested to my friends the serious possibility of an invalid marriage. You know what? I wish they had told me about their concerns. Maybe I could have ignored one friend saying something. But if several of them had said something, maybe I wouldn’t have wasted so much time on a guy who was so obviously wrong for me.

All of this is just my story, from the perspective of someone who was once headed toward a train-wreck marriage. I have no idea how your friend will react. If you have the serious concerns you’ve outlined here, you might decide that you need to speak up – but if you do speak up, be prepared for the possibility of her reacting negatively even up to the point of ending your friendship.

I agree that the following are the questions that you ought to ask when considering the decision:

Are you firmly convicted that she is making a gravely irresponsible decision? If so are you prepared to give up your friendship to admonish her? If so, given your knowledge of this person and the relationship between you, do you believe you have a reasonable chance at swaying her if you do? If the answer to the above three questions are all yes, then say something. If any are no, then forever hold your peace and do what you can as a friend to help her and support her in this decision which is surely hers to make.

 

[MomtoEandM]

I. Do they have the appropriate dispensations to marry? They need one because he is a Lutheran.

II. To be fair my numbers show 994 miles distance between Orlando and Chicago, and a full 1025 miles between orlando and Niagara falls.

No, no. Chicago to Orlando vs. Chicago to Niagara Falls. 1155 vs. 528, give or take.

And this discussion only happened because he wanted to go to Walt Disney World on their honeymoon. She wanted Niagara Falls. He said no to that, on the grounds that Disney World would be closer to Chicago.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

No, no. Chicago to Orlando vs. Chicago to Niagara Falls. 1155 vs. 528, give or take.

And this discussion only happened because he wanted to go to Walt Disney World on their honeymoon. She wanted Niagara Falls. He said no to that, on the grounds that Disney World would be closer to Chicago.

Ok I misunderstood, but do they have dispensation?

 

[MomtoEandM]

Ok I misunderstood, but do they have dispensation?

He is making all the arrangements with the church and the priest. Last I heard, he was getting a copy of his baptismal certificate. I assume he has done so, but he and I don’t really communicate much. I was looking at the Chicago Diocese website, and I think they’d just need “permission” instead of a dispensation, based on what is listed. Is that not correct?

policy.archchicago.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=6F_tzT0IxOI%3D&tabid=10164

 

[1ke]

I would note my objections to the marriage to both your friend AND the pastor of the parish preparing for marriage. The Faithful have an obligation to disclose anything that is an impediment to valid marriage.

 

[Irishmom2]

After he dumped me, I found out that NONE of my friends – and I mean absolutely none of them – liked him. But they’d all been afraid to tell me the bad qualities they saw in him and their concerns because they were afraid it would damage our friendship.

My daughter had the same thing happen with a boyfriend. She told all of her friends and family that we are to tell her right away if they don’t like something becasue she knows that sometimes love is blind and people can’t see things except in hindsight.

To the OP, how much worse will you feel if your friend marries him and then it ends disasterously? She might wonder why no one ever spoke up before they were married. You could say to her, “there is something I want to talk to you about. I will say it this once and then, I will never bring it up again.” And then, speak your piece.

 

[Kelfa28]

My husband was in a slightly similar situation years ago.

His best friend was engaged, after a 3 month courtship, to a girl that my husband absolutely did not like at all.

Unfortunately there wasn’t much he could do about it. He came from a very small, pentacostal church that began pressuring his best friend and the girl to get married.

Here’s the thing. He did say something to his best friend. His friend knew that my husband did not like his fiance and did not think the marriage was a smart decision.

As a result, my husband was invited but wasn’t in the wedding party and was shuffled to the back in the “extra” table.

Two years later they were divorced. But that didn’t change their friendship. They are still best friends. My husband was the best man at his next wedding (a better choice and a strong marriage) and his best friend was the best man for our wedding.

I understand that guys don’t hold grudges the same way that women do.

If it was me…I would say something. I’ve done it before to girlfriends who have had boyfriends I didn’t like. If they scoffed at me…I’d distance myself from them…until the relationship ran it’s course.
I’ve never been in a situation where a girlfriend was about to marry a man that was so obviously wrong for her.
But I think I’d still say something.

 

[Chantal25]

I sometime express my concern but then i support their decision afterward that they followed my advice or not.

You can always consult with a priest and ask his opinion about this.

All the best!

 

[MomtoEandM]

I thought I would post an update. They finally went to Pre-Cana last weekend. Apparently, it didn’t go so well, and they were told they needed to work on their “communication issues.” A day or two later, they got into a huge fight, in which she accused him of never apologizing. He said that he is trained not to apologize in his job, so she should get used to him never saying he’s sorry. He also completely changed their honeymoon plans again without consulting her. They were barely speaking for most of the week.

When I spoke with her, she said the saddest thing to me. “Thank goodness, in five weeks, this will all be over.” I think that speaks volumes for the type of marriage they’ll have. I couldn’t wait for my wedding because I was so excited to begin my married life. I wasn’t counting down the days until my wedding would be over.

So, as a result of all this, I have decided to have a frank discussion with her next weekend. I don’t know if I’ll be able to change her mind, but I feel like I have to try. She does seem like she’s in a more receptive state of mind, so I’ll give it my best shot.

 

[Baelor]

Please keep us posted. Also please make sure to mention the apology issue – he is basically clearing the ground for never having to admit that he has done anything wrong. RED FLAG!!!

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Thank you for the responses. I am still quite torn over this. I have thought and prayed over this, but it is not any clearer to me how I should respond.

Here is some additional information about the situation:

My friend (I’ll call her Lily) is engaged to Dave. Lily is 38 and has always felt called to marriage and particularly to motherhood. She is the oldest of nine, and she has worked as a teacher in a daycare for 15 years. I am worried that she may feel that Dave is her last chance to have biological children and is willing to turn a blind eye to behavior that should not be ignored.

**Dave is very controlling. He picked the date of their wedding, the place, what they registered for, and even the wedding colors. The only thing he didn’t pick was the dress. **

Most of your concerns are incredibly valid. I just had to laugh out loud at this one, because if the woman picks all of that stuff it’s not considered controlling at all… double standards and such.

Anyway, I will pray for your friend

 

[marketinggm]

One of my closest friends is getting married in seven weeks. I will be the Matron of Honor in the wedding. However, I feel that my friend is making a mistake and that this marriage can only end in divorce. What is my moral obligation here? Do I support my friend and trust that she sees something in her future husband that I do not see, or am I obligated to share my concerns with her? If I do share my concerns and she chooses to marry, should I still stand up in the wedding? I don’t want to jeopardize our friendship, but it so hard to sit by and watch her make what I believe is a huge mistake.

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