Friend: How does your church [faith] define and teach Justification

[PJM]

Dear friends in Christ,

Please share with us what your church teaches on Justification.

Both by definition and faith practice.,

I’m still trying to learn others beliefs and practices.

God Bless you,
Patrick [PJM]

 

[Padres1969]

Dear friends in Christ,

Please share with us what your church teaches on Justification.

Both by definition and faith practice.,

I’m still trying to learn others beliefs and practices.

God Bless you,
Patrick [PJM]

Anglicanism views justification as primarily an act of faith. This is expressed pretty clearly in the 39 articles by Article XI.

That said, being Anglicanism, adherents don’t always hold tightly to that, particularly in the Anglo-Catholic school of thought where man can play some role along side God in justification. And in particular that the sacraments and sacramental rites can provide some means of sanctifying grace along side and even toward justification, even if not strictly speaking required for justification. Also to be clear there is not an express teaching regarding sanctification in Anglicanism.

 

[MaryT777]

Good question, subscribed.

 

[arthra]

I was looking for some statement from the Baha’i Writings on justification and found this

Baha’u’llah revealed the following well over a century ago:

“There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you.”

Such an appeal does not call for abandonment of faith in the fundamental verities of any of the world's great belief systems. Far otherwise. **Faith has its own imperative and is its own justification. **What others believe -- or do not believe -- cannot be the authority in any individual conscience worthy of the name. What the above words do unequivocally urge is renunciation of all those claims to exclusivity or finality that, in winding their roots around the life of the spirit, have been the greatest single factor in suffocating impulses to unity and in promoting hatred and violence.

(The Universal House of Justice, 2002 April, To the World's Religious Leaders, p. 3)

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Anglicanism views justification as primarily an act of faith. This is expressed pretty clearly in the 39 articles by Article XI.

That said, being Anglicanism, adherents don’t always hold tightly to that, particularly in the Anglo-Catholic school of thought where man can play some role along side God in justification. And in particular that the sacraments and sacramental rites can provide some means of sanctifying grace along side and even toward justification, even if not strictly speaking required for justification. Also to be clear there is not an express teaching regarding sanctification in Anglicanism.

Agreed. And also, quite simply, it’s not really a language that is used much in Anglicanism. I think you’d get a lot of perplexed looks on a Sunday morning if you tried preaching on it.

 

[steido01]

Lutheranism is rather simple:

Article IV: Of Justification.
Also they [Lutherans] teach that men cannot be justified before God by their own strength, merits, or works, but are freely justified for Christ’s sake, through faith, when they believe that they are received into favor, and that their sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake, who, by His death, has made satisfaction for our sins. This faith God imputes for righteousness in His sight. (Rom. 3 and 4.)

For further reading:
bookofconcord.org/defense_4_justification.php
​

​

Of course, Lutherans also state that works are a necessary and natural product of having faith – we aren’t antinomians, despite what some hyperbolic polemic-types would have you believe, including some misguided Lutherans. While acknowledging that a good branch should bear good fruit, we would never attempt to “judge” a person’s faith by their works (From the Lutheran viewpoint, Pope Francis was correct when he asked “Who am I to judge?”) – that’d defeat the whole purpose of the Gospel! So Lutherans say we are justified by “faith alone,” but with the understanding that faith is never actually alone.

If you’re paying attention, you’ll note that this is remarkably similar to the Catholic view, and Pope Benedict has noted as much. The difference, then, is seemingly only semantic; Lutherans differentiate between Justification and Sanctification, whereas a Catholic might simply say ‘Justification’ in reference to both. However, that’s not the case either. The Catholic holds that when Baptism wipes away Original Sin, the human predisposition to actual sin is gone and any “sins” aren’t actually sin, but really just concupiscence. The Lutheran, on the other hand, says that Original Sin has made man totally depraved; man’s sin really is actual sin. The Catholic, then, is tied to a timeline of sorts in his understanding of Justification/Sanctification (hence popular theories like Purgatory after death). The Lutheran is a bit more mystic (not sure if that’s the best word choice, but that’s what I’m turning up at the moment), understanding himself to be simultaneously depraved because of Original Sin, yet saved through Baptism. Will Lutherans understand that a “purgation” of sorts takes place? Sure. But we won’t call it “Purgatory” and we don’t expect it to be a literal place.

Hope that helps.

 

[PJM]

Anglicanism views justification as primarily an act of faith. This is expressed pretty clearly in the 39 articles by Article XI.

That said, being Anglicanism, adherents don’t always hold tightly to that, particularly in the Anglo-Catholic school of thought where man can play some role along side God in justification. And in particular that the sacraments and sacramental rites can provide some means of sanctifying grace along side and even toward justification, even if not strictly speaking required for justification. Also to be clear there is not an express teaching regarding sanctification in Anglicanism.

Your final statement is to ME, astounding!

Thank you,

Blessings,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

I was looking for some statement from the Baha’i Writings on justification and found this

Baha’u’llah revealed the following well over a century ago:

“There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you.”

Such an appeal does not call for abandonment of faith in the fundamental verities of any of the world's great belief systems. Far otherwise. **Faith has its own imperative and is its own justification. **What others believe -- or do not believe -- cannot be the authority in any individual conscience worthy of the name. What the above words do unequivocally urge is renunciation of all those claims to exclusivity or finality that, in winding their roots around the life of the spirit, have been the greatest single factor in suffocating impulses to unity and in promoting hatred and violence.

(The Universal House of Justice, 2002 April, To the World's Religious Leaders, p. 3)

Thank you for sharing,

Blessings,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Lutheranism is rather simple:

​

Of course, Lutherans also state that works are a necessary and natural product of having faith – we aren’t antinomians, despite what some hyperbolic polemic-types would have you believe, including some misguided Lutherans. While acknowledging that a good branch should bear good fruit, we would never attempt to “judge” a person’s faith by their works (From the Lutheran viewpoint, Pope Francis was correct when he asked “Who am I to judge?”) – that’d defeat the whole purpose of the Gospel! So Lutherans say we are justified by “faith alone,” but with the understanding that faith is never actually alone.

If you’re paying attention, you’ll note that this is remarkably similar to the Catholic view, and Pope Benedict has noted as much. The difference, then, is seemingly only semantic; Lutherans differentiate between Justification and Sanctification, whereas a Catholic might simply say ‘Justification’ in reference to both. However, that’s not the case either. The Catholic holds that when Baptism wipes away Original Sin, the human predisposition to actual sin is gone and any “sins” aren’t actually sin, but really just concupiscence. The Lutheran, on the other hand, says that Original Sin has made man totally depraved; man’s sin really is actual sin. The Catholic, then, is tied to a timeline of sorts in his understanding of Justification/Sanctification (hence popular theories like Purgatory after death). The Lutheran is a bit more mystic (not sure if that’s the best word choice, but that’s what I’m turning up at the moment), understanding himself to be simultaneously depraved because of Original Sin, yet saved through Baptism. Will Lutherans understand that a “purgation” of sorts takes place? Sure. But we won’t call it “Purgatory” and we don’t expect it to be a literal place.

Hope that helps.

Nicely done Thank you

We of course disagree on Purgatory being just a theory.

And we hold that salvation has to be, a Process.

God Bless you,

Patrick.

 

[PJM]

Agreed. And also, quite simply, it’s not really a language that is used much in Anglicanism. I think you’d get a lot of perplexed looks on a Sunday morning if you tried preaching on it.

Interesting; what then my friend is its counter-point? “Salvation” is attained how?

Blessings,

Patrick

 

[gazelam]

Dear friends in Christ,

Please share with us what your church teaches on Justification.

Both by definition and faith practice.,

I’m still trying to learn others beliefs and practices.

God Bless you,
Patrick [PJM]

In a nutshell, the LDS view of justification is to have the guilt of sin removed. It is closely tied to sanctification which is to be made holy.

Here are a couple of LDS sources…

From the LDS topical guide: lds.org/scriptures/gs/justification-justify

To be pardoned from punishment for sin and declared guiltless. A person is justified by the Savior’s grace through faith in him. This faith is shown by repentance and obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. Jesus Christ’s atonement enables mankind to repent and be justified or pardoned from punishment they otherwise would receive.

From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Justification

Justification is a scriptural metaphor drawn from the courts of law: a judge justifies an accused person by declaring or pronouncing that person innocent. Likewise, God may treat a person as being “not guilty” of sin. All mortals individually need to be justified because they fall short of perfect obedience to God, becoming “carnal, sensual, and devilish” through transgression (Moses 5:13; Mosiah 16:3), are “cut off” from God, and are in jeopardy of becoming “miserable forever” (2 Ne. 2:5). In this plight, they of themselves cannot be justified through subsequent obedience to the law and cannot change their own nature to become obedient. Furthermore, they are severed from the source of the divine power that can change, or sanctify, them (2 Ne. 9:5-9).

Here is a talk about justification and sanctification by a current LDS Apostle (who was not yet a Apostle at the time of his talk) lds.org/ensign/2001/06/justification-and-sanctification?lang=eng

Thus, it is not that we earn these gifts, but rather that we choose to seek and accept justification and sanctification. Since the Savior paid for our sins and satisfied justice for us, we become debtors to Him rather than to justice. We must therefore meet the stipulations He has established for forgiveness and cleansing. Otherwise, He withdraws His proffered mediation, and we are left to deal alone with the demands of justice, lacking the means to become pure. One must choose Christ to receive what Christ offers.

I hope this helps…

 

[Padres1969]

Your final statement is to ME, astounding!

Thank you,

Blessings,

Patrick

Frankly I have the opposite reaction to it. I like that they’ve left sanctification a more open question.

 

[PJM]

In a nutshell, the LDS view of justification is to have the guilt of sin removed. It is closely tied to sanctification which is to be made holy.

Here are a couple of LDS sources…

From the LDS topical guide: lds.org/scriptures/gs/justification-justify

To be pardoned from punishment for sin and declared guiltless. A person is justified by the Savior’s grace through faith in him. This faith is shown by repentance and obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. Jesus Christ’s atonement enables mankind to repent and be justified or pardoned from punishment they otherwise would receive.

From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Justification

Justification is a scriptural metaphor drawn from the courts of law: a judge justifies an accused person by declaring or pronouncing that person innocent. Likewise, God may treat a person as being “not guilty” of sin. All mortals individually need to be justified because they fall short of perfect obedience to God, becoming “carnal, sensual, and devilish” through transgression (Moses 5:13; Mosiah 16:3), are “cut off” from God, and are in jeopardy of becoming “miserable forever” (2 Ne. 2:5). In this plight, they of themselves cannot be justified through subsequent obedience to the law and cannot change their own nature to become obedient. Furthermore, they are severed from the source of the divine power that can change, or sanctify, them (2 Ne. 9:5-9).

Here is a talk about justification and sanctification by a current LDS Apostle (who was not yet a Apostle at the time of his talk) lds.org/ensign/2001/06/justification-and-sanctification?lang=eng

Thus, it is not that we earn these gifts, but rather that we choose to seek and accept justification and sanctification. Since the Savior paid for our sins and satisfied justice for us, we become debtors to Him rather than to justice. We must therefore meet the stipulations He has established for forgiveness and cleansing. Otherwise, He withdraws His proffered mediation, and we are left to deal alone with the demands of justice, lacking the means to become pure. One must choose Christ to receive what Christ offers.

I hope this helps…

Thank you SOOOO much!

Perhaps its my age {71}, but I don’t see how you reconcile the 2nd and 3td points of your
post?

Also it’s puzzling why their are no references to the Bible?

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Frankly I have the opposite reaction to it. I like that they’ve left sanctification a more open question.

OK, BUT

Our liking something is NOT going to alter how GOD grants salvation is it?

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[jane_doe]

First of all, thank you PJM for another great thoughtful thread.

Thank you SOOOO much!
Perhaps its my age {71}, but I don’t see how you reconcile the 2nd and 3td points of your
post?

In short, the second point talks about a person who accept’s Christ (they are justified of their sins through His sacrifice). The latter part of the 3rd post talks about person who rejects Christ, and is left alone to reconcile justice on their own.

Thank you SOOOO much!
Also it’s puzzling why their are no references to the Bible?

If you look at the larger articles, there are Bible references. They just didn’t happen to be in the little posted section.

(I’m guessing you know that Mormons are not sola scriptura or sola Biblia)

 

[ltwin]

Please share with us what your church teaches on Justification.

Both by definition and faith practice.

Pentecostal statements of faith typically speak of justification, and salvation more broadly, in the following ways:

Assemblies of God Statement of Fundamental Truths

1. The Salvation of Man
   Man’s only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Conditions to Salvation
Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life.
Luke 24:47 [KJV/NIV]
John 3:3 [KJV/NIV]
Romans 10:13-15 [KJV/NIV]
Ephesians 2:8 [KJV/NIV]
Titus 2:11 [KJV/NIV]
Titus 3:5-7 [KJV/NIV]

The Evidence of Salvation
The inward evidence of salvation is the direct witness of the Spirit.
Romans 8:16 [KJV/NIV]

The outward evidence to all men is a life of righteousness and true holiness.
Ephesians 4:24 [KJV/NIV]
Titus 2:12 [KJV/NIV]

Articles of Faith of the Pentecostal Holiness Church

1. We believe that Jesus Christ shed His blood for the remission of sins that are past, for the regeneration of penitent sinners, and for salvation from sin and from sinning (Romans 3:25; 1 John 3:5-10; Ephesians 2:1-10).

1. We believe, teach and firmly maintain the scriptural doctrine of justification by faith alone (Romans 5:1).

1. We believe that Jesus Christ shed His blood for the complete cleansing of the justified believer from all indwelling sin and from its pollution, subsequent to regeneration (1 John 1:7-9).

Now, this does not mean once saved always saved. While justification is a one time “event”, it can be said to interact with the other parts of the ordo salutis, such as repentance and sanctification, which have both initial and ongoing aspects.

Practically speaking, most Pentecostals would identify their moment of justification as being initial repentance from sin which was brought about by hearing the gospel preached and being convinced by the Holy Spirit (what we call “being under conviction”) that they were sinners in need of salvation. In response, to the cry of the church and the Holy Spirit to “come” the sinner confesses his sin, turns to Christ in faith, and prays to God for forgiveness salvation on the basis of Christ’s atoning work. This person is now a believer, justified from sin.

If someone is claiming to be a Christian, we would expect to see some evidence of that, such as repentance from sin, a growth in holiness, attending the means of grace and pursuing the spiritual disciplines. At the same time, holiness of life would not be the cause of justification, rather justification would lead to holiness of life.

 

[Padres1969]

OK, BUT

Our liking something is NOT going to alter how GOD grants salvation is it?

God Bless you,

Patrick

Honestly I don’t see it as being altered at all by that.

 

[PJM]

First of all, thank you PJM for another great thoughtful thread.

In short, the second point talks about a person who accept’s Christ (they are justified of their sins through His sacrifice). The latter part of the 3rd post talks about person who rejects Christ, and is left alone to reconcile justice on their own.

If you look at the larger articles, there are Bible references. They just didn’t happen to be in the little posted section.

(I’m guessing you know that Mormons are not sola scriptura or sola Biblia)

Thank you for both the kind thought and the reply.

The Issue I [ME] & other Catholics have with Jesus having done ALL that is necessary for one’s salvation except for acknowledging HIM as LORD, is it defeats the way; the precise manner the God freely choose to Create humanity

In all of the BILLIONS of things in God’s Creation, only humanity can freely choose to love, hare & rationalize

To do so requires {literally} "God-like".attributes of a mind, intellect, freewill and Soul.Each of which explains precisely HOW we are “Created in God’s own image” Gen. 1:26-27

Each of the attributes is like God a Spiritual reality John 4:23-24, and like God are immortal.

Since the FALL of Adam and Eve God motivated by man’s PAST failures has insisted on man’s proving, and reproving time N’again our fidelity and love for Him. :Which is why He Jesus instituted the Seven Sacraments of His Catholic Church; to aid us in doing exactly that.

So you’re understanding of Jesus having done it all {which I am shocked the discover in a Mormon teaching},

1. Denies the reality of the manner God created man
2. Denies man the RIGHT to fully utilize the very attributes granted to him so that salvation MIGHT be merited
3. Denies the “God-TEST” of suffering and woes, given or permitted, precisely so that we might prove our love and obedience to His Will.

** Take Up your Cross and Follow Me**
Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.** Luke.9: 23** And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7** Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.” **

This last verse means: without doing so; heaven is impossible to attain.

And yes my friend, I am aware but puzzled that the Mormon Church holds the bible in only a very secondary role of religious faith formation importance. HOW this can be is a great mystery to Christians.

Man’s teachings over-shadowing God’s is beyond our ability to comprehend.

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[jane_doe]

Thank you for both the kind thought and the reply.

The Issue I [ME] & other Catholics have with Jesus having done ALL that is necessary for one’s salvation except for acknowledging HIM as LORD, is it defeats the way; the precise manner the God freely choose to Create humanity
… Jane cropping this just for shortness, to abridge the content] …

Man’s teachings over-shadowing God’s is beyond our ability to comprehend.

God Bless you,

Patrick

Hello Patrick, how are you this morning?

Your post touched on a lot of topics in your thoughtful post. Overall though, it seems like you’ve heard some very incorrect information about Mormon beliefs. I don’t say this to be disrespectful at all-- it is a common unintentional mistake, just as many people have heard incorrect information about Catholic beliefs (myself previously included). I really admire your ambition to learn about different faith traditions here.

Clarifying a couple of essential Mormon beliefs here:

Mormons DO adhere to God-breathed scriptures, including the Bible. The Bible is honored, studied, and frequently quoted from Mormon teachings/church. The Bible is not at all held “lower” than other books scriptures, but rather side-by-side, just as the OT & NT & all books therein are held side-by-side. All scripture testifies and bears witness of Christ. Un-inspired words are always held lower than the inspired words of God.

Mormons DO acknowledge Christ as our Lord and Savior, without whom salvation is completely impossible. We are to be His disciples, take up our cross, and follow Him. We are also to abandon our worldly sins and repent, both of which are only possible with and because of the Savior’s sacrifice.

Mormons do believe that God created man and the Earth.

Mormons do honor/praise/worship/acknowledge Christ as fully divine and the Son of God.

I hope that helps clarify things. If you have any further questions or concerns, I’d be happy to chat more.

-Jane

 

[PJM]

First of all, thank you PJM for another great thoughtful thread.

WHAT FOLLOWS IS A RE-BLOG OF KEN HENSLEY’S DISCUSSION ON THE DIFFERENCES IN “JUSTIFICATION” FROM PROTESTANT & CATHOLIC PERSPECTIVES

EVEN EDITED FOR SPACE IT’S LENGTHY AND WILL BE ON THE NEXT 10 [TEN] POST

Post 1 of 10
A Justification REACP from Ken Hensley’s BLOG
Ken is a convert to Catholicism, a theologian, teacher & former Protestant Minister.
What follows here is an edited portions of his BLOG on comparing Catholic & Protestant teachings & understanding on Justification. The site information is:
callingallconverts.com/martin-luther-misunderstood-st-paul-part-i-achieving-clarity/
Because of its length; it will necessarily be segmented into [GW} sequential post identified by sequence POST #’s 1through 10
In simple terms, “justification” is the theological term Catholics use to describe the entire process by which we are forgiven our sins and made internally righteous and fit for heaven. Justification is a process, and it’s process in which we are involved.
This is what Catholics mean when they speak of “justification

For Protestants, “justification” is something entirely different. It isn’t about how we become “internally righteous and fit for heaven”, and it isn’t a “process”. For Protestants, justification is a legal transaction that takes place and is completed the moment one believes in Christ. It consists of the righteousness of Christ being legally “credited” (“imputation” is the word normally used) to the one who believes. This is what makes one “just” in the sight of God
In the Protestant view, one’s “right standing” before God is based “solely” on Christ’s righteousness having been imputed to one’s account.
John Calvin referred to justification by faith alone as the “hinge upon which the door of all true religion swings.”
Luther went so far as to assert that no one could be saved who did not agree with him on this crucial issue. “I do not admit that my doctrine can be judged by anyone, even the angels. He who does not receive my doctrine [of justification by faith alone] cannot be saved.”
In their thinking, faith alone in the imputed righteousness of Christ means that salvation is from first to last the work of God. It means that there are no grounds for human boasting. It means that God receives all the praise and glory for the work of salvation.

The Catholic view, on the other hand, which insists that justification is a process in which our perseverance in faith and obedience is required… Well, in this case, Protestants reason, if we actually achieved eternal life, we would have contributed to our own salvation. Salvation would be partly God’s work and party ours. We would logically have grounds for boasting for all eternity that we had to some degree “saved ourselves”. God would not receive all the praise and glory! And yet St Paul is so clear in teaching that salvation is God’s gift and that Christians have no grounds for boasting…

It’s this line of reasoning that leads a serious Reformation-minded Protestant pastor like John MacArthur to write: “The difference between Rome and the Reformers is not theological hair-splitting. A right understanding of justification by faith is the very foundation of the gospel. You cannot go wrong at this point without corrupting every other doctrine as well. And that is why every ‘different gospel’ is under the eternal curse of God.”

What about 2ns Timothy 3:16-17???
ISAIAH 43: 7 & 21
Why Would God Create us to Worship and Glorify IF Obedience was not a critical part of that Glorification; which is precisely why man alone emulates God in His Creation of us.

“You know, it’s a curious thing, but when you think of it, the Bible is essentially one story after another of men and women and their relationships with God, one illustration after another of how God deals with people. And never in these stories do we find God telling people they will receive his blessing ‘by faith alone.’ Instead, the pattern is always ‘trust me (faith), do what I tell you to do (obedience) and I will bless you (blessing)’. The pattern we see in Scripture is always faith, leading to obedience, resulting in God’s blessing.”

SEE NEXT POST