Friend is Catholic in name only

[CatLover24]

I have an online friend whom I have known for about a year. She was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools. I was so excited to find out she’s Catholic because I don’t have any Catholic friends my age, but it turns out it’s just in name only.

She told me she doesn’t believe in Transubstantiation because it becomes a distraction and a way of excluding people, and that it seems superfluous. She also said she has no moral objections to artificial birth control and thinks that Jesus had siblings since “The Bible says He did and that’s good enough for me.”

From one of her emails to me: “I guess what surprises me about my Catholic education (all 17 years of it), is how they really didn’t do a very good job in many respects of explaining why this or that belief should be believed or even why it’s important. It’s especially noticeable to me with beliefs like transubstantiation and the perpetual virginity of Mary that are in contrast with Protestant beliefs. Not once do I ever remember anyone making a case for why transubstantiation is any way preferable to a more symbolic understanding or consubstantiation. And the perpetual virginity thing wasn’t really dealt with at all other than to say it’s the Church’s belief. Without that reasoning and meaningfulness, how can some in the leadership really be surprised that a lot of Catholics are more in line with Protestants on these beliefs?”

I’m so disappointed to find all this out. I’m not a good Catholic by any means, don’t get me wrong! I don’t go to Mass that often, and I really need to go to Confession (I don’t take Communion when I do go to Mass, don’t worry!). But belief in the Eucharist is what drew me to the Church…I’m a convert. So her saying that Jesus can’t have meant that literally because it’s too divisive just hurts coming from someone who calls themselves Catholic. And I realize she’s far from being in the minority.

Should I try to change her mind - once she has an opinion she sticks with it - or should I just keep my mouth shut and worry about myself? I’m really not trying to be all holier than thou. I really am upset about how she feels. But I guess this post sounds like the mote and the beam…

 

[zz912]

I have an online friend whom I have known for about a year. She was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools. I was so excited to find out she’s Catholic because I don’t have any Catholic friends my age, but it turns out it’s just in name only.

I’m sad to say this, but honestly, you should probably assume that most Catholics you meet are of the CINO variety in some degree or another. Most have been raised in a culture of horrible catechesis, and raised by people telling them it’s okay to be a Cafeteria Catholic. This was one of the big culture shocks to me when I converted was the vast number of people who openly disagree with the Church.

She told me she doesn’t believe in Transubstantiation because it becomes a distraction and a way of excluding people, and that it seems superfluous. She also said she has no moral objections to artificial birth control and thinks that Jesus had siblings since “The Bible says He did and that’s good enough for me.”

This speaks to her ignorance. She simply doesn’t know how wrong she is. But be gentle with her. Honey will work better than vinegar.

From one of her emails to me: “I guess what surprises me about my Catholic education (all 17 years of it), is how they really didn’t do a very good job in many respects of explaining why this or that belief should be believed or even why it’s important. It’s especially noticeable to me with beliefs like transubstantiation and the perpetual virginity of Mary that are in contrast with Protestant beliefs. Not once do I ever remember anyone making a case for why transubstantiation is any way preferable to a more symbolic understanding or consubstantiation. And the perpetual virginity thing wasn’t really dealt with at all other than to say it’s the Church’s belief. Without that reasoning and meaningfulness, how can some in the leadership really be surprised that a lot of Catholics are more in line with Protestants on these beliefs?”

She’s right in that her Catholic education was probably woefully lacking, and abysmally substandard. Most Catholics (even those who went through Catholic school) are stunningly ignorant of the faith. So they are ripe for Protestants to evangelize them, because they are ignorant of the theological issues and have no idea of the counter-arguments to their claims.

I’m so disappointed to find all this out. I’m not a good Catholic by any means, don’t get me wrong! I don’t go to Mass that often, and I really need to go to Confession (I don’t take Communion when I do go to Mass, don’t worry!). But belief in the Eucharist is what drew me to the Church…I’m a convert. So her saying that Jesus can’t have meant that literally because it’s too divisive just hurts coming from someone who calls themselves Catholic. And I realize she’s far from being in the minority.

You setting a good example to the faith will do wonders for helping her. And have gentle conversations with her about the faith. Tell her how much you value the faith, and how you ran TO the Church from Protestant beliefs because the Church was right. Tell her how much it means to you.

Should I try to change her mind - once she has an opinion she sticks with it - or should I just keep my mouth shut and worry about myself? I’m really not trying to be all holier than thou. I really am upset about how she feels. But I guess this post sounds like the mote and the beam…

Just tell her how much you appreciate the Church and her teachings. And tell her why you converted.

 

[Della]

Your friend is right about one thing–she received poor catechesis. This is no excuse as an adult now, though. There are many good resources, such as Catholic Answers, where she can learn what she didn’t learn as a girl. Perhaps you could direct her here if she wants to understand what the Church teaches and why.

As for yourself, no matter how good or bad we think we are as Catholics we do have the right and duty to help those who are confused or wrong so they can learn the truth and grow in their faith. Your friend has been heavily influenced by the world around her and probably Protestant friends. Really, why should the Church have to “defend” its teachings against Protestant ideas? It should be the Protestants who have to explain why they reject Christ’s Church since it was founded by Christ himself.

In any case, for yourself–start going to Mass on Sundays and HDOs as well as confession. The more we meet Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament the more we desire to meet him there. His real presence does not divide, but brings us together. Those who reject Him in the sacrament are the ones who are being divisive, not those who accept Him.

Please return to participating and practicing your faith. It doesn’t grow stronger by starving it of spiritual nourishment any more than our bodies would grow strong if we starved them, yes?

God bless you for your concern for your friend. Pray for her even if you can’t help her see how she is wrong. The Holy Spirit can do far more than we can. I suspect she wouldn’t be so determined to be right if she didn’t know she is wrong.

 

[BillP]

I have an online friend whom I have known for about a year. She was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools. I was so excited to find out she’s Catholic because I don’t have any Catholic friends my age, but it turns out it’s just in name only.

She told me she doesn’t believe in Transubstantiation because it becomes a distraction and a way of excluding people, and that it seems superfluous. She also said she has no moral objections to artificial birth control and thinks that Jesus had siblings since “The Bible says He did and that’s good enough for me.”

From one of her emails to me: “I guess what surprises me about my Catholic education (all 17 years of it), is how they really didn’t do a very good job in many respects of explaining why this or that belief should be believed or even why it’s important. It’s especially noticeable to me with beliefs like transubstantiation and the perpetual virginity of Mary that are in contrast with Protestant beliefs. Not once do I ever remember anyone making a case for why transubstantiation is any way preferable to a more symbolic understanding or consubstantiation. And the perpetual virginity thing wasn’t really dealt with at all other than to say it’s the Church’s belief. Without that reasoning and meaningfulness, how can some in the leadership really be surprised that a lot of Catholics are more in line with Protestants on these beliefs?”

**I’m so disappointed to find all this out. I’m not a good Catholic by any means, don’t get me wrong! I don’t go to Mass that often, and I really need to go to Confession **(I don’t take Communion when I do go to Mass, don’t worry!). But belief in the Eucharist is what drew me to the Church…I’m a convert. So her saying that Jesus can’t have meant that literally because it’s too divisive just hurts coming from someone who calls themselves Catholic. And I realize she’s far from being in the minority.

Should I try to change her mind - once she has an opinion she sticks with it - or should I just keep my mouth shut and worry about myself? I’m really not trying to be all holier than thou. I really am upset about how she feels. But I guess this post sounds like the mote and the beam…

Why is her imperfection worse than yours?

How would you feel if she were on here saying:

“I’ve got this online friend who claims to be Catholic but doesn’t even go to Mass or Confession”?

 

[Avila123]

Sound advice from the other Posters.

Having received a poor foundation from the Catholic and then Evangelical churches and walked away, I agree with the quiet honey approach. Even when people come Home, it takes a long time to understand the Church’s teachings and we all travel at our own pace.

 

[Carlan]

Poor catechesis? possibly. But with the luke warm and wayward, it could be a matter of proper mind knowledge not finding its way into the heart, trust that with God’s actual grace convicting ,your friend will be enlightened.Peace, Carlan

 

[ServantPD]

Oh Lord, if our old Inquisition knew about this…

On serious topic though… It’s rather sad to see her calling herself Catholic but welcoming opposing ideas (or literal reads of the Bible, which isn’t good at all, either) without doing proper research why we see the Eucharist as transubstantiated instead of costubstatiated, or Marian dogmas or whatever else you’d like to point out. It really comes from poor education on the subject, and Catholics should really have this type of theology explained so that this type of cases do not occur…

As for explaining the dimension of each doctrinal error she appears to have, we something to do first…

I’m so disappointed to find all this out. I’m not a good Catholic by any means, don’t get me wrong! I don’t go to Mass that often, and I really need to go to Confession (I don’t take Communion when I do go to Mass, don’t worry!).

First of all, get rid of this problem. A Catholic that is under excommunication due to having un-reconciliated mortal sins isn’t by far the best person to point out the flaws of the others… :tsktsk:

“How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” Luke 6:42

Second, be gentle but explain where she has it wrong. I see to have a personality similar to hers, and while we may reject at first the idea, the more it digs up the mind, the more able to see the flaws on our views we will get. A Catholic with these points of view isn’t the most faithful, but hopefully some sense can get into her mind, and she may become more reasonable on regard to Christianity.

The rest of the posters have pretty good advice as well, so follow what they say. Put yourself in a state of grace, get used to be in that state of grace, and then put her in the right road. The righteous shows righteousness in his actions, not just his words!

 

[CyberDreamer]

Father Larry Richard’s advice that he gave recently in a mass I feel applies here: the “I am third” rule for priorities in life.

1. God
2. Others
3. You

As Della mentioned, first go to Mass. Go to Confessions. Work out your faith.

This may seem like odd advice coming from a current evangelical protestant in RCIA, but I should point out the idea of someone being something in name only is not exclusive to the Catholic faith.

The majority of Protestants in my age group (late 20’s/early 30’s) are Christians in name only. Many of them, if questioned on their beliefs would be closer described as atheists or agnostics, and certainly embrace ideas ranging from the denial of the Incarnation of Christ or the Trinity to Gnosticism.

That is to say, I’ve been where you are more times than I’d like to be true – especially with relationships over the Internet.

My conclusion is a rather simple and anecdotal one: to these people, their religion is not something they arrived at, but something they were simply born into and decided was another demographic label not at all different from being born white and male. Further, post-modernism tells them they can apply whatever definition they like to words, because words (and truth) have no absolute, objective values. Everything is how they feel about it.

The answers are truly out there if they’re interested to find the truth. However, most of them aren’t; they’re interested in changing the truth in a way that suits their lifestyle.

That isn’t to say that everyone should just give up on these folks – hardly! I think a good dose of reality is in order, though, and the reality is that it is the work of the Holy Spirit that will direct them to the right path.

Much more prayer is needed, and not so much arguments.

Too many thrive off of discussions; it gives them a platform to elevate themselves and their intellects over the Church (or, in the Protestant case, various denominations) and individuals trying to live holy lives.

Be careful of this – if this is the case, you’re running into an immovable wall and it’s best to move on. Your job isn’t to force them to believe; you should not, but more importantly, you cannot.

But the most important thing is that you put God first. I’m rambling, but in a roundabout way, this is most important not only for obvious reasons, but because they will try to bring you into their world. If you’re not practicing yourself, and you’re not around other strong believers, you’re going to be hearing all of the negative and be exposed to none of the positive.

I know. I’ve been there.

You cannot be an effective witness for Christ to others if you aren’t in a working relationship with Him now.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

There is a good chance she’s not looking to change. She may be comfortable where she is. Unless she reaches out, I wouldn’t chase her.

I’d also ask myself why it bothered me (that she didn’t think or believes as you do)

 

[DianePa]

I have an online friend whom I have known for about a year. She was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools. I was so excited to find out she’s Catholic because I don’t have any Catholic friends my age, but it turns out it’s just in name only.

But belief in the Eucharist is what drew me to the Church…I’m a convert.

Should I try to change her mind - once she has an opinion she sticks with it - or should I just keep my mouth shut and worry about myself? I’m really not trying to be all holier than thou. I really am upset about how she feels. But I guess this post sounds like the mote and the beam…

In name only seems to be all to common in today’s church. But you being a convert might well be an inspiration to her. I have found that many who convert seem to profess their faith even more strongly than many of us ‘cradle Catholics’.
Might you invite her to join with you in attending mass? Perhaps together you might offer to each other the ‘missing links’ both of you may need to bring out into the open and strengthen your faiths. And maybe too attend a mass together where confession is heard beforehand. She may not take advantage of the sacrament of confession but if you set the example she may well give some thought to addressing that issue for herself in the near future.
Imagine how nice it would be to attend mass with a close friend by your side?

 

[fred_conty]

I have an online friend whom I have known for about a year. She was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools. I was so excited to find out she’s Catholic because I don’t have any Catholic friends my age, but it turns out it’s just in name only.

She told me she doesn’t believe in Transubstantiation because it becomes a distraction and a way of excluding people, and that it seems superfluous. She also said she has no moral objections to artificial birth control and thinks that Jesus had siblings since “The Bible says He did and that’s good enough for me.”

From one of her emails to me: “I guess what surprises me about my Catholic education (all 17 years of it), is how they really didn’t do a very good job in many respects of explaining why this or that belief should be believed or even why it’s important. It’s especially noticeable to me with beliefs like transubstantiation and the perpetual virginity of Mary that are in contrast with Protestant beliefs. Not once do I ever remember anyone making a case for why transubstantiation is any way preferable to a more symbolic understanding or consubstantiation. And the perpetual virginity thing wasn’t really dealt with at all other than to say it’s the Church’s belief. Without that reasoning and meaningfulness, how can some in the leadership really be surprised that a lot of Catholics are more in line with Protestants on these beliefs?”

I’m so disappointed to find all this out. I’m not a good Catholic by any means, don’t get me wrong! I don’t go to Mass that often, and I really need to go to Confession (I don’t take Communion when I do go to Mass, don’t worry!). But belief in the Eucharist is what drew me to the Church…I’m a convert. So her saying that Jesus can’t have meant that literally because it’s too divisive just hurts coming from someone who calls themselves Catholic. And I realize she’s far from being in the minority.

Should I try to change her mind - once she has an opinion she sticks with it - or should I just keep my mouth shut and worry about myself? I’m really not trying to be all holier than thou. I really am upset about how she feels. But I guess this post sounds like the mote and the beam…

Try to soften her up towards the church would go a long way helping her. She sounds hardened and bitter, not to mention stubborn. I’m not being unkind in my judgment but just observent.
Nothing gets thru from God when a person is hard and predjudicial.

One way is to explain that many young people are only interested in having a good time and fun in their earlier years. They don’t pay attention because it takes discipline and hard work which at that age is to be avoided. I’m talking about what I saw when I went thru highschool.
And also what I saw in my own children and grandchildren, they don’t want to pay attention to those things they need to know.

So later they don’t remember that they were taught about a lot of things that they now deny anyone every taught them. And as time moves on, they forget, and oh, how we all forget.
So just gently suggest to your friend, we forget a lot that we were taught and that is being just a human being.

You might also bring up the good things about the church such as hospitals, nuns who serve people, orphans, old people, teaching, helping the homeless and so on. There is no other organization doing these things on such a large worldwide basis except the catholic church.

Also remind her that even tho these things bother her that the peace and quiet in her soul come from asking Jesus to help her. She might say a simple prayer like “Jesus have mercy on me” as often as she can so Jesus can help her. For he always comes to those who invite him.

And the last suggestion is to avoid any confrontation about the faith. She doesn’t sound ready for that. But you might just suggest to her that the reason we receive his body and blood in holy communion is because he wished it, because he loves us and wants to be close to us.
And then leave it at that.

The idea is just a small dose of love and thought here and there to soften her up for the grace of God to have effect. You are preparing the ground and the way.

So softness, and imagination, without too much instruction.

May God our Father give you grace and peace.

 

[mlz]

I have an online friend whom I have known for about a year. She was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools. I was so excited to find out she’s Catholic because I don’t have any Catholic friends my age, but it turns out it’s just in name only.

She told me she doesn’t believe in Transubstantiation because it becomes a distraction and a way of excluding people, and that it seems superfluous. She also said she has no moral objections to artificial birth control and thinks that Jesus had siblings since “The Bible says He did and that’s good enough for me.”

From one of her emails to me: “I guess what surprises me about my Catholic education (all 17 years of it), is how they really didn’t do a very good job in many respects of explaining why this or that belief should be believed or even why it’s important. It’s especially noticeable to me with beliefs like transubstantiation and the perpetual virginity of Mary that are in contrast with Protestant beliefs. Not once do I ever remember anyone making a case for why transubstantiation is any way preferable to a more symbolic understanding or consubstantiation. And the perpetual virginity thing wasn’t really dealt with at all other than to say it’s the Church’s belief. Without that reasoning and meaningfulness, how can some in the leadership really be surprised that a lot of Catholics are more in line with Protestants on these beliefs?”

I’m so disappointed to find all this out. I’m not a good Catholic by any means, don’t get me wrong! I don’t go to Mass that often, and I really need to go to Confession (I don’t take Communion when I do go to Mass, don’t worry!). But belief in the Eucharist is what drew me to the Church…I’m a convert. So her saying that Jesus can’t have meant that literally because it’s too divisive just hurts coming from someone who calls themselves Catholic. And I realize she’s far from being in the minority.

Should I try to change her mind - once she has an opinion she sticks with it - or should I just keep my mouth shut and worry about myself? I’m really not trying to be all holier than thou. I really am upset about how she feels. But I guess this post sounds like the mote and the beam…

I seems to me that your relationship with this person isn’t an “accident” as God uses for good all those we encounter in life. He has allowed you to meet this person to help both of you. I would research WHY the Catholic Church has these teachings myself first and yes, then share what you have learned with this person in love and charity.

mlz