P
psolano
Guest
Just wondering, are we suppose to fast 1 hour before Mass or 1 hour before we recieve the Eucharist ( which would mean about 15 min before Mass) ?
- Status
T
TobyLue
Guest
I have seen replies concerning what you should and should not do. Dropping the subject and just praying for her which is good, but does your priest know about this situation? If you have already told her what the Church teaches and she refuses to obey the teachings, why not bring it up with the priest and let him handle it? Maybe the priest can just have a general meeting with the whole choir and mention what the correct fast is and if they are not able to observe it then they should not receive communnion.
I used to be in charge of a choir many years back and there were two differnt occassions where two members were really out of place and they refused to obey. One was constantly critizing the teachings of the Church and the other would repeatedly use foul language and argue and criticize others because he knew music better than anybody else. Being the leader it was my responsiblity to take action. In each situation after talking to them and explaining to them how we had to act, they refused, so I dismissed them. The priest backed me up 100% even though they were both good musicians and singers. It was better to dismiss them than to have discord in the choir.
I used to be in charge of a choir many years back and there were two differnt occassions where two members were really out of place and they refused to obey. One was constantly critizing the teachings of the Church and the other would repeatedly use foul language and argue and criticize others because he knew music better than anybody else. Being the leader it was my responsiblity to take action. In each situation after talking to them and explaining to them how we had to act, they refused, so I dismissed them. The priest backed me up 100% even though they were both good musicians and singers. It was better to dismiss them than to have discord in the choir.
T
TobyLue
Guest
One hour before we receive the Eucharist.
L
LionHeart1981
Guest
I must say I am disgusted by some of the attitudes and comments posted thus far.
Firstly, God understands why she is singing and only he has the authority to commit her to hell.
My personal belief, and it’s just that, that God would understand why she is drinking coke and not condemn her for it. A sinful action must always take into account the motivation of the heart. If the desire in her heart is to Glorify God, and must drink coke to do this well, and still would like to receive the Eucharist, if she has the right motivation, is this such a bad thing? I’m not saying she should or shouldn’t, I’m simply making a statement.
Secondly, it’s not your job to fix this problem. It’s your job to probe with questions and get her opinion. Then you can pray for her.
Lastly, you are not necessarily judging her, only God knows if you are or not. In my opinion, it’s possible to be making a statement of observation. The splinter/log parable must be taken into context. If I challenge someone for murder or rape, am I judging them?
Sorry - very lastly, I have many friends who sing at Church and they drink things like tea & honey and coke to help with their voices also. I would suggest not approaching any priest about this, but probably your diocesan liturgical office. They normally have a priest their as the head.
Peace & God Bless,
Lionheart
Firstly, God understands why she is singing and only he has the authority to commit her to hell.
My personal belief, and it’s just that, that God would understand why she is drinking coke and not condemn her for it. A sinful action must always take into account the motivation of the heart. If the desire in her heart is to Glorify God, and must drink coke to do this well, and still would like to receive the Eucharist, if she has the right motivation, is this such a bad thing? I’m not saying she should or shouldn’t, I’m simply making a statement.
Secondly, it’s not your job to fix this problem. It’s your job to probe with questions and get her opinion. Then you can pray for her.
Lastly, you are not necessarily judging her, only God knows if you are or not. In my opinion, it’s possible to be making a statement of observation. The splinter/log parable must be taken into context. If I challenge someone for murder or rape, am I judging them?
Sorry - very lastly, I have many friends who sing at Church and they drink things like tea & honey and coke to help with their voices also. I would suggest not approaching any priest about this, but probably your diocesan liturgical office. They normally have a priest their as the head.
Peace & God Bless,
Lionheart
A
Anonymous_1
Guest
Am I my brothers keeper? What is your answer?
Flopfoot, you are doing the right thing by confronting this person lovingly and gently about this issue. It seems she has a deeper underlying issue regarding obedience to the Church that Christ founded. “he who hears you hears Me.” While it is not rigth for us to judge, are we not able to say this is wrong or this is wrong? Of course we are, and it is our responsibility to inform the ignorant which is one of the spiritual works of mercy.
*
If your brother sins against you, go to him and show him his fault, just between the two of you.*
Luke 17:3
Flopfoot, you are doing the right thing by confronting this person lovingly and gently about this issue. It seems she has a deeper underlying issue regarding obedience to the Church that Christ founded. “he who hears you hears Me.” While it is not rigth for us to judge, are we not able to say this is wrong or this is wrong? Of course we are, and it is our responsibility to inform the ignorant which is one of the spiritual works of mercy.
Matthew 18:15
*
If your brother sins against you, go to him and show him his fault, just between the two of you.*
Luke 17:3
Galatians 6:1
James 5:19
It is not our job to determine if someones sin is venial or mortal that is between them, God and a confessor who is trained and can help the penitent figure it out. With that said, I can not turn grave matter into not grave matter by not believing what the Church teaches. If I don’t agree with the Churches teaching on Active Euthanasia can I simply disregard it and unplug my Grandmom because I don’t subscribe to it? To propose this is absurd.
W
Walking_Home
Guest
One cannot separate God from the Church.
If the Church says that we cannot eat or drink 1hr before receiving communion ( coke and tea fall in here)- then it is so.
And what is it with this “judgement” or “the log in ones eye”.
What now, we can’t stand up for what the Church teaches.
T
Tonks40
Guest
I’m a singer, I’ve been a singer for many years, and a diet soda is definately NOT one of the best things to drink before you sing. Besides the additives, the caffeine can dry you out a bit.
Rather than drinking a soda…suggest that she drink water. It’s better for her voice…and permissable!
Rather than drinking a soda…suggest that she drink water. It’s better for her voice…and permissable!
B
BarbaraTherese
Guest
Kay Cee:
No God does not care more for the sound of anyone’s voice over and above obedience to the Church He has established…but mysteriously not all see clearly how important obedience is to The Church - it depends on insight granted by Grace, The Holy Spirit.
Be that as it may, God cares as much for a person’s voice as He does obedience to His Church for God does not set priorities I dont think as human beings do and need to do. God is beyond all that, beyond our comprehension completely…God cares for every hair on our head. God is not as we are and perhaps make a decision that He needs to concentrate more on obedience than a person’s voice.
Only sin can take us from God and the criteria is:
To knowingly
And willingly
Consent to something which one believes is either mortal or venial sin
…and in the instance being discussed, I dont think this person regards her opinion and behaviour as sinful…and product probably of a badly informed conscience and I think what Flopfoot is trying to do is inform her conscience accurately and to be commended.
Over and above all that I would hope absolutely that no person for no reason remains outside God’s Loving Mercy, His Compassion, Insight and Understanding…no matter how confused or lax they may be. God’s Ways remain not ours. And this week we commemorate one of the most overwhelming acts of Loving Mercy and Ardent Love imaginable…from whom non are excluded - non…and it is a matter staggering and overpowering, stunning!
I apologize but other than my above comments if indeed you have my post in mind, I am unsure of your point really…forgive me.
Barb
Hi Kay Cee…I am unsure if you may be referring to something I have posted or not…but it does not matter really.
No God does not care more for the sound of anyone’s voice over and above obedience to the Church He has established…but mysteriously not all see clearly how important obedience is to The Church - it depends on insight granted by Grace, The Holy Spirit.
Be that as it may, God cares as much for a person’s voice as He does obedience to His Church for God does not set priorities I dont think as human beings do and need to do. God is beyond all that, beyond our comprehension completely…God cares for every hair on our head. God is not as we are and perhaps make a decision that He needs to concentrate more on obedience than a person’s voice.
Only sin can take us from God and the criteria is:
To knowingly
And willingly
Consent to something which one believes is either mortal or venial sin
…and in the instance being discussed, I dont think this person regards her opinion and behaviour as sinful…and product probably of a badly informed conscience and I think what Flopfoot is trying to do is inform her conscience accurately and to be commended.
Over and above all that I would hope absolutely that no person for no reason remains outside God’s Loving Mercy, His Compassion, Insight and Understanding…no matter how confused or lax they may be. God’s Ways remain not ours. And this week we commemorate one of the most overwhelming acts of Loving Mercy and Ardent Love imaginable…from whom non are excluded - non…and it is a matter staggering and overpowering, stunning!
I apologize but other than my above comments if indeed you have my post in mind, I am unsure of your point really…forgive me.
Barb
W
Walking_Home
Guest
Hi Kay Cee…I am unsure if you may be referring to something I have posted or not…but it does not matter really.
No God does not care more for the sound of anyone’s voice over and above obedience to the Church He has established…but mysteriously not all see clearly how important obedience is to The Church - it depends on insight granted by Grace, The Holy Spirit.
Be that as it may, God cares as much for a person’s voice as He does obedience to His Church for God does not set priorities I dont think as human beings do and need to do.
Well lets see here:
God does not set priorities (what is important)
people set priorities
The Church sets priorities
So then — the Church does not equal God
…The Church equals people with human priorities.
Interesting way of looking at this.
God is beyond all that, beyond our comprehension completely…God cares for every hair on our head. God is not as we are and perhaps make a decision that He needs to concentrate more on obedience than a person’s voice.
Only sin can take us from God and the criteria is:
To knowingly
And willingly
Consent to something which one believes is either mortal or venial sin
So all it takes is disbelief and we are home free.
Funny – I thought the disbelief was a sin in itself—
and here we have been–saying that politicians and such that believe in pro-choice should not receive communion.
…and in the instance being discussed, I dont think this person regards her opinion and behaviour as sinful…and product probably of a badly informed conscience and I think what Flopfoot is trying to do is inform her conscience accurately and to be commended.
Over and above all that I would hope absolutely that no person for no reason remains outside God’s Loving Mercy, His Compassion, Insight and Understanding…no matter how confused or lax they may be. God’s Ways remain not ours. And this week we commemorate one of the most overwhelming acts of Loving Mercy and Ardent Love imaginable…from whom non are excluded - non…and it is a matter staggering and overpowering, stunning!
I apologize but other than my above comments if indeed you have my post in mind, I am unsure of your point really…forgive me.
Barb
T
thistle
Guest
Can’t you actually separate all your comments from Barbara’s. I have to keep scrolling back up to read the original comments. All these highlighted bits are confusing.
Which are your comments to Barbara’s post?
W
Walking_Home
Guest
sorry thistle,
my comments are the magenta–pink.
M
Marysann
Guest
Flipflop, I think that you have done your duty in fraternal correction in informing your friend that she should not be drinking coke within one hour before receiving Holy Communion. Now you must turn it over to the Lord, Who alone can read our hearts. Now for the practical aspects, as a singer for many years, I understand why she wants to drink the coke. The carbonation helps to clear the throat. She could drink plain carbonated water to get the same affect. I don’t think that that breaks the fast. (At least, I hope not!) Several priests have told us choir singers over the years that using cough drops during Mass does not break the communion fast because it is considered medication.
W
wjp984
Guest
what kind of bs excuse is that? Water would be way better for a voice than a coke. I almost laughed. Am I missing something? I mean, I really enjpoy singing myelf but I don’t understand how a coke would be of any benefit.
M
Melanie01
Guest
No, you are twisting my reply, I am not judging anyone, simply saying what I have been taught by the RCC. It is about subsuming my/ours/your will to the will of God. It is a point of love and self discipline.
K
Kay_Cee
Guest
Actually, I was looking only at the OP’s post, and I was being sarcastic.Hi Kay Cee…I am unsure if you may be referring to something I have posted or not…but it does not matter really.
No God does not care more for the sound of anyone’s voice over and above obedience to the Church He has established…but mysteriously not all see clearly how important obedience is to The Church - it depends on insight granted by Grace, The Holy Spirit.
Be that as it may, God cares as much for a person’s voice as He does obedience to His Church for God does not set priorities I dont think as human beings do and need to do. God is beyond all that, beyond our comprehension completely…God cares for every hair on our head. God is not as we are and perhaps make a decision that He needs to concentrate more on obedience than a person’s voice.
Only sin can take us from God and the criteria is:
To knowingly
And willingly
Consent to something which one believes is either mortal or venial sin
…and in the instance being discussed, I dont think this person regards her opinion and behaviour as sinful…and product probably of a badly informed conscience and I think what Flopfoot is trying to do is inform her conscience accurately and to be commended.
Over and above all that I would hope absolutely that no person for no reason remains outside God’s Loving Mercy, His Compassion, Insight and Understanding…no matter how confused or lax they may be. God’s Ways remain not ours. And this week we commemorate one of the most overwhelming acts of Loving Mercy and Ardent Love imaginable…from whom non are excluded - non…and it is a matter staggering and overpowering, stunning!
I apologize but other than my above comments if indeed you have my post in mind, I am unsure of your point really…forgive me.
Barb
And no offense taken.
B
BarbaraTherese
Guest
Quoting Barb
What I think I need to insight is that my belief is no credit to me at all whatsoever, rather thanks to the Grace of God. Am I able to say with absolute confidence that another disbelieves because they are unfaithful to Grace granted…no I cannot. It boils down I think to look after the log in my own eye and not be problemed by the splinter in my neighbour’s eye as I “work out my own salvation in fear and trembling”. But not all insight those last three words and the why of them…or if they do, to the same degree. God disposes of His Gifts as He May.
I need also be aware of the words of The Lord “judge not, that you may not be judged”
Where abortion is concerned:
First, abortion is grave matter constituting mortal sin.
If one knows that it is grave matter and a mortal sin and what
mortal sin incurs.
And if one anyway consents in any way to that grave matter
… it is a mortal sin. I have in fact chosen freely to separate myself from God of my own volition and choice.
What I need to remember is that whether I am conscious of it or not my mind, heart, soul and body is an open book to God. I may in some way be able to evade or ‘trick’ people…but not God. In the final analysis it will the All Knowing and Unknowable God that will judge me.
Barb
Quoting WalkingHome…
Disbelief that is culpable would incur some degree of sin depending on the disbelief and reasons for disbelief.
What I think I need to insight is that my belief is no credit to me at all whatsoever, rather thanks to the Grace of God. Am I able to say with absolute confidence that another disbelieves because they are unfaithful to Grace granted…no I cannot. It boils down I think to look after the log in my own eye and not be problemed by the splinter in my neighbour’s eye as I “work out my own salvation in fear and trembling”. But not all insight those last three words and the why of them…or if they do, to the same degree. God disposes of His Gifts as He May.
I need also be aware of the words of The Lord “judge not, that you may not be judged”
Where abortion is concerned:
First, abortion is grave matter constituting mortal sin.
If one knows that it is grave matter and a mortal sin and what
mortal sin incurs.
And if one anyway consents in any way to that grave matter
… it is a mortal sin. I have in fact chosen freely to separate myself from God of my own volition and choice.
What I need to remember is that whether I am conscious of it or not my mind, heart, soul and body is an open book to God. I may in some way be able to evade or ‘trick’ people…but not God. In the final analysis it will the All Knowing and Unknowable God that will judge me.
Barb
B
BarbaraTherese
Guest
Quoting KayCee…
…
Barb
Apologies KayCee again…and thank you for your generosity in not taking offenceActually, I was looking only at the OP’s post, and I was being sarcastic.
And no offense taken.
…Barb
T
thistle
Guest
I agree with your comments.
I also believe that with all the publicity over the years and condemnation of abortion it would pretty hard for any Catholic to argue they did not know abortion is a mortal sin (sorry that this is slightly off thread topic).
B
BarbaraTherese
Guest
Hi there Thistle…not completely off topic I dont think because sin per se either venial or mortal is not so much the content and grave matter as one’s perspective…or rather it is grave mortal matter coupled with perspective to constitute mortal sin. No objective matter or subject of itself can be mortal sin…only grave matter constituting possible mortal sin.
For example I do know Catholics or of Catholics, who are very much against abortion…however they waver on the subject (not so sure it is mortal) where rape and/or incest brought about conception. For myself, I too find the whole abortion issue where rape and/or incest is involved unclear as to mortal sin.
Break it down into an example. There is a vast difference between a woman who has an abortion because she does not want a child…and a woman who has an abortion because of rape and emotional and mental state. I just cannot see that both are on a par and equal. Hence I do prefer to stay out of such debates and ask God to be Merciful on all without exemption, including me. In the final analysis God will not consult Church Law alone on judgement day…but His Insight into reasons, motivations, insights and perspectives.
Barb
W
Walking_Home
Guest
For those of us that believe in our Church and in what She teaches, it is “judgemental” when we point out and affirm Her teachings to other Catholics. By this reasoning you are ramming a whole forest into the Catholic Church. The Church Herself, is a whole judgement call. She Herself is the fountain of grace, all grace from God comes thru Her. Rejecting Her teachings is rejecting Gods grace. All grace that is found outside the Church still comes from Her. Knowing what is right from wrong comes from Her.
You seem to be separating God grace from the Church, and see Her as a human institution with human priorities. In this context, then affirming Her teachings does put a log in ones eye.
- Status