Friend says, “Marriage is your ticket to celibacy”

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deb1:
This is true of both genders. I have had female friends complain that their spouses changed once they were married. I think that the key is to spend a lot of time with the person in a variety of situations. How do they act when they are frustrated or angry? Does she talk nasty behind her friends backs? One day she will be frustrated or angry with you and will respond to you in the same manner. How do their parents treat one another? This is how she is being taught that couples should act like.
Well in my friends case her mother tells her that her man going to leave her if she doesn’t stop it. In fact all he usually has to do is allow his mother in law to come over. Her mother is very traditional and she is not.

Regardless, If this continues with his marriage I’m not sure what he will do. I’m not even sure what I would do.

All I know is that if I want to avoid this kind of thing I shouldn’t make the mistake that he did and treat her like a princes before getting married. I would need to just let her like me for my normal dull self first.Too many guys make that mistake I think.
 
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Myangel:
AH BOY we are 2 peas in a pod! You have a friend (who is unhappy in his marriage) giving you advice about marriage, and I have friends who are perfectly happy in their marriage giving me advice, and we have the same outcome FEAR of making the wrong choice. Yeah sure we all change when we get married, but that comes with the territory, surely. Its all about compromise. Marriages dont always occur for the wrong reasons, have you not got any friends around you who are happily married?
um… you should talk to my parish preist that told me that only 1 out of every 10 of the marriages he performs works out. he has married 1000s of couples. It is just sad.
 
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JamesG:
um… you should talk to my parish preist that told me that only 1 out of every 10 of the marriages he performs works out. he has married 1000s of couples. It is just sad.
That depresses me. I work in a law firm and see divorce every day and I think why bother???
 
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JamesG:
I have a friend that recently told me not to get married to a modern woman. He said you will get nothing from her sexually.
When one focuses on what one gets from their spouse rather than what they can give to their spouse, one has a wrong-headed idea of marriage.

Marriage is a Sacrament. At its heart is a giving of self as Christ gave himself up for his Bride, the Church.

Your friend is focused on the wrong thing if he’s focused on “what’s in it for me”. And, also, if he married to get sex-- he married for the wrong reason.
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JamesG:
He told me only to marry an Italian / traditional girl because she will at least continue to show affection for you. She will even cook you something.
Marrying an “Italian” girl (whatever that means) is no guarantee of a happy marriage. Marrying a “traditional” girl is not necessarily a guarantee either.

**Marrying a person who shares your values and vision of marriage is important. **

The root of disappointment an disillusion is unmet expectations. I pose to you that it is unmet expectations that has your friend ready to give up on marriage. And, I would further pose that this is probably because he did not discuss the roles and expectations before getting married. He did not seek out a woman who shared his values and vision of marriage.

In summary, he chose poorly.
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JamesG:
He said that women today are tainted by feminism and you have to watchout for that.
There are many men who desire what your friend calls a “modern” woman-- a feminist who will go out and break the glass ceiling, bring home $100K per year, and have some fascinating Cosmo sex move at night. The type of man who desires this type of woman would be disappointed in a woman who wanted to stay home, bake cookies, and have lots of babies.

There are also women who are influenced by feminist thinking, the culture at large, and also shaped by the mistreatment they’ve had at the hands of men in some cases.

As in all things, there are extremes at both ends of the spectrum. You cannot make any sort of generalization about women as you are attempting to do.
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JamesG:
After he told me how she is treating him I tried to consider how I would react. My first gut reaction would be to buy another bed and sleep in it alone. There wouldn’t be much difference because I would feel alone anyway even while I slept beside her.
You don’t give any examples, so I cannot comment on what she may or may not be doing.

However, she did not just manifest this behavior overnight. She likely was like this all along. If she was not, then something has happened to change her attitude and behavior.

And, while he’s busy pointing his finger at her, he has three fingers pointed back at himself. Has he examined what he has done (or not done) to contribute to the current state of his marriage?
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JamesG:
I tried to tell him that he doesn’t deserve it. But I didn’t want to kick a man while he was down by saying anything more. I’m afraid he is going to just leave his wife or do something worse. I joked with him and told him just to get her drunk.
Again you don’t state what she has ‘done’. Although I surmise it has something to do with lack of sex. Well, more info is necessary. Perhaps they have an unequal drive-- he thinks he’s deprived and she thinks nothing is wrong. Perhaps she’s depressed or on medication that takes her out of the mood. Perhaps she’s overwhelmed with work, house, etc.

You don’t give enough info to make a good assessment. Perhaps she’s not getting her emotional needs met, and is using withholding sex as a way to change his behavior. A childish game of chicken ensues on both sides.

There are a couple of good books on the subject I can recommend:

His Needs, Her Needs
The Five Love Languages
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JamesG:
I guess I just don’t understand why a woman would not want to make her man happy. Maybe she is far to selfish.
And, why don’t we hear about the man wanting to make his woman happy? You have a fairly one-sided view of marriage. It is a two way street. Most women do want to make their man happy. Some don’t know how. Some build up resentment because their husband does not know how to meet their needs. Some couples don’t communicate well.
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JamesG:
Is it true that women really become that selfish after they get married? What is the point of getting married to a modern woman if she is incapable of showing affection toward you?
You cannot make this sort of assessment of all women or even “feminist” women or “traditional” women. Specific women, in specific circumstances, may act selfishly, may not show affection, etc. But, no, you cannot make such a statement about all women.
 
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JamesG:
This guy made the mistake of treating his girl like a princess.
James,

He did not make the mistake of treating her well. He made the mistake of choosing a spouse who lacks character and integrity.

It has nothing to do with the “modern” vs “traditional” or anything else.
 
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Myangel:
That depresses me. I work in a law firm and see divorce every day and I think why bother???
He was infact the one that said there is no way for a priest to tell what the motives behind a marriage are

I figure that if I can find a woman who goes to church by herself then I might have a chance of understanding her heart.
 
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1ke:
Your friend is focused on the wrong thing if he’s focused on “what’s in it for me”.
No, this guy does everything for her. She does nothing inside or outside of the house. He is not focused on his own needs that I can asure you off. This is not only a sexual issue. There is just a general lack of affection from her.

You are right that you shouldn’t be focused on what you want. But even from my own experiences I can tell you that it can still hurt you deeply when you give all you can and get no affection back.

Just try doing everything for someone even with the expectation of geting nothing in return. At first you will feel fine and it will make you good. But then all of a sudden your emotions will kick in and it will start to hurt you. You will wonder why this is happening and then you will realize that you actually do need some affection back in return. That is perfectly human and that is just how are hearts work. When we give up our heart we need someone to take care of it
**Marrying a person who shares your values and vision of marriage is important. **
This I agree with. And that is why I am focused on finding a traditional woman and a non feminist.
In summary, he chose poorly.
Yes I think he knows that.
The type of man who desires this type of woman would be disappointed in a woman who wanted to stay home, bake cookies, and have lots of babies.

As in all things, there are extremes at both ends of the spectrum. You cannot make any sort of generalization about women as you are attempting to do.
Yes I wouldn’t want to make a generalization, but I think that seeking that which I know I need is important.
However, she did not just manifest this behavior overnight. She likely was like this all along. If she was not, then something has happened to change her attitude and behavior.
Well like I said he did everything he could to win her over. She was his princess before he got married. She has most likely manifested this behavior from her years of social conditioning
And, while he’s busy pointing his finger at her, he has three fingers pointed back at himself. Has he examined what he has done (or not done) to contribute to the current state of his marriage?
Well he told me that he is a traditional man with a non-traditional woman. You see he married within his own culture (greek) but she doesn’t follow those traditions. I guess he thought otherwise. She was great before marriage and her parents really liked him.
Again you don’t state what she has ‘done’. Although I surmise it has something to do with lack of sex.
she has done nothing.
Perhaps she’s overwhelmed with work, house, etc.
he does all the house work. he even picks up after her.
And, why don’t we hear about the man wanting to make his woman happy?
I don’t know, maybe you didn’t listen.
He is doing everything he can. She does nothing. She is lazy.
But, no, you cannot make such a statement about all women.
you are correct . The best you can do is figure out what kind of person you are. If you are a traditional man like me then you had best be very sure that you find a traditional woman at the very least.
 
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1ke:
James,

He did not make the mistake of treating her well. He made the mistake of choosing a spouse who lacks character and integrity.

It has nothing to do with the “modern” vs “traditional” or anything else.
yeah… I agree. Character and integrity are very important
 
well the best advice so far from here is to suggest that he seek counseling.
 
If he is Catholic he can do what I do, since my situation sounds worse than his. Im not gonna go into it, but suffice it to say that I have 6 children and when I get home from work the wife is on the couch and she goes and takes a nap while I clean up and make dinner. I used to complain but that just made things worse, really!! So now, rather than do anything that will affect my children. We rarely have intercourse anymore maybe once every month or so. I accept that I married her without prayerful consideration and mostly out of lust. Therefore I am responsible in a way and I must carry this cross. I have become much more humble in this way and our home is at least for now more peaceful. I will say I do get stressed very often but with daily mass and prayer I get the grace to persevere. To often I think we blame others for our initial mistake, rather than ourselves and then carry the crosses which most of us have formed in our lives.

Oh and unless it is a catholic counceler I dont think Id do it. We did and they suggested I divorce her.
 
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tdandh26:
If he is Catholic he can do what I do, since my situation sounds worse than his. Im not gonna go into it, but suffice it to say that I have 6 children and when I get home from work the wife is on the couch and she goes and takes a nap while I clean up and make dinner. I used to complain but that just made things worse, really!! So now, rather than do anything that will affect my children. We rarely have intercourse anymore maybe once every month or so. I accept that I married her without prayerful consideration and mostly out of lust. Therefore I am responsible in a way and I must carry this cross. I have become much more humble in this way and our home is at least for now more peaceful. I will say I do get stressed very often but with daily mass and prayer I get the grace to persevere. To often I think we blame others for our initial mistake, rather than ourselves and then carry the crosses which most of us have formed in our lives.

Oh and unless it is a catholic counceler I dont think Id do it. We did and they suggested I divorce her.
:blessyou: You are in my prayers!
 
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tdandh26:
If he is Catholic he can do what I do, since my situation sounds worse than his. Im not gonna go into it, but suffice it to say that I have 6 children and when I get home from work the wife is on the couch and she goes and takes a nap while I clean up and make dinner. I used to complain but that just made things worse, really!! So now, rather than do anything that will affect my children. We rarely have intercourse anymore maybe once every month or so. I accept that I married her without prayerful consideration and mostly out of lust. Therefore I am responsible in a way and I must carry this cross. I have become much more humble in this way and our home is at least for now more peaceful. I will say I do get stressed very often but with daily mass and prayer I get the grace to persevere. To often I think we blame others for our initial mistake, rather than ourselves and then carry the crosses which most of us have formed in our lives.

Oh and unless it is a catholic counceler I dont think Id do it. We did and they suggested I divorce her.
How very sad. Perhaps you could help the OP by writing down some of the traits that he can avoid when picking a future wife. I know that you don’t want to go into specifics but maybe you can write in a general way what personality quirks should make a man rethink the possibility of marriage.
 
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deb1:
How very sad. Perhaps you could help the OP by writing down some of the traits that he can avoid when picking a future wife. I know that you don’t want to go into specifics but maybe you can write in a general way what personality quirks should make a man rethink the possibility of marriage.
I doubt very much that I am qualified to give anyone marriage advice. I do not expect people to do the things I do, and most of my family doesnt even know the full extent of what I deal with because Im afraid to tell them for fear of anger directed at her.

I will say this though, do everything in your life with a lot of prayer and spiritual guidence. Most of the time we make bad choices due to our own desires which lead to saddness, but I will say that if it is done for the sake of Jesus, even the bad times will be joyful.
 
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JamesG:
No, this guy does everything for her. She does nothing inside or outside of the house. He is not focused on his own needs that I can asure you off. This is not only a sexual issue. There is just a general lack of affection from her.
James, in your OP, you didn’t give enough information. That is why people speculated that perhaps she was overwhelmed, depressed, etc. Subsequent posts made it more clear that there is basically a mismatch of values, expectations, and vision of marriage.
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JamesG:
This I agree with. And that is why I am focused on finding a traditional woman and a non feminist.
I would caution you not to frame women into stereotypical categories. “Traditional” and “feminist” mean very different things to different people. I would instead frame it as a “faithful Catholic who shares my values, vision, and expectations in marriage”.

I suggest a really good book by Neil Clark Warren called Date or Soul Mate. It talks about putting your “must haves” and your “dealbreakers” down on paper, discussing them, and making determinations in your relationships based on the dimensions of compatibility that are important. That is what my husband and I did. We prayed and discerned together every step of the way. We talked about all the areas of life and the expectations and values in each area.
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JamesG:
Yes I wouldn’t want to make a generalization, but I think that seeking that which I know I need is important.
Of course finding a compatible person who shares your values and beliefs is important. However, you came across extremely negative in your OP and that is not the way to attract a woman.

I understand that your friend is bitter, regretful, sad, and miserable. But, warning you against women and making this about a whole class of women is wrong. It is his woman who was a bad choice. There is no evidence that you will make such a choice, approach marriage as he did, or be swindled by a lieing, fake woman. You are becoming paranoid-- and that is a bad sign.
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JamesG:
Well he told me that he is a traditional man with a non-traditional woman. You see he married within his own culture (greek) but she doesn’t follow those traditions. I guess he thought otherwise. She was great before marriage and her parents really liked him.
All the more reason not to take his advice to find an “Italian” woman. You cannot judge a book by its cover. He assumed that because the girl is of Greek heritage she would embrace a traditional role in the household. Obviously he didn’t actually talk to her about it.

She may have been a “great” date before marriage, but he did not discuss the future, roles and expectations. And, if she is like the Greeks I know she lived at home until marriage and if she did so-- maybe her MOTHER treated her like a princess and maybe she doesn’t know any other way to be in the house. Perhaps she lacks the skills to be a good steward of the house.

Counseling could help-- if they both want to go, and if they get religious counseling. If they are Orthodox or Catholic, encourage them to go to their priest.

In your relationships don’t assume that because a girl goes to church or is of a certain ethnic background that she has your values. You must talk about your future in very specific terms.
 
JamesG:

Yes, the unification of the Sacrament of marriage establishes that what were once two, are now one, and both partners are to remain “celibate” exterior to the unification state.

Andy
 
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AndyF:
JamesG:

Yes, the unification of the Sacrament of marriage establishes that what were once two, are now one, and both partners are to remain “celibate” exterior to the unification state.

Andy
This makes absolutely no sense. Please clarify your comments.
 
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1ke:
In your relationships don’t assume that because a girl goes to church or is of a certain ethnic background that she has your values. You must talk about your future in very specific terms.
Yes I know this. Everything that I value must be respected by her and everything she values must be respected by me.

With that said, I know for a fact that I need a traditional woman.

He made the mistake of going for looks, culture, and family tradition over his own needs. In other words, he thought he was getting the whole package deal but he didn’t check in side the box before he went to the check out.

With that said, there must be something he can do that will turn his wife around. Something that will at least help her show more affection towards him. At this point he has tried everything.
 
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