Friend says, “Marriage is your ticket to celibacy”

[JamesG]

tdandh26:

If he is Catholic he can do what I do, since my situation sounds worse than his. Im not gonna go into it, but suffice it to say that I have 6 children and when I get home from work the wife is on the couch and she goes and takes a nap while I clean up and make dinner. I used to complain but that just made things worse, really!! So now, rather than do anything that will affect my children. We rarely have intercourse anymore maybe once every month or so. I accept that I married her without prayerful consideration and mostly out of lust. Therefore I am responsible in a way and I must carry this cross. I have become much more humble in this way and our home is at least for now more peaceful. I will say I do get stressed very often but with daily mass and prayer I get the grace to persevere. To often I think we blame others for our initial mistake, rather than ourselves and then carry the crosses which most of us have formed in our lives.

Oh and unless it is a catholic counceler I dont think Id do it. We did and they suggested I divorce her.

This situation has truely made you a man.

 

[AndyF]

1ke:

This makes absolutely no sense. Please clarify your comments.

Hi 1ke!:

Sure, but I’ll need a point of reference.

Perhaps a good reference would be your current understanding of what you know of Catholic marriage?.

Andy

 

[Lorarose]

I am always wary when someone asks for generalized statements regarding women or men - as if all women and all men can be pigeonholed.

The truth is…you really don’t have the whole story, because you have not been discussing this with your friend’s wife.
She might have a thing or two to say about how men change after marriage.
She may be at fault, he may be at fault, or the more likely scenario in most marriages - they both may be partially at fault.

No one really knows what goes on behind closed doors, except for the 2 people involved.

Everyone changes after marriage. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad.
Life happens, children happen - people grow and change, so it is inevitable.

You should not allow the troubles of others affect how you view other human beings.
Women are human beings. If you treat them with friendship and respect, most of them will respond in kind.
If you marry a woman, you should continue to treat her with friendship and respect, and you should expect the same from her.

 

[1ke]

JamesG:

With that said, there must be something he can do that will turn his wife around. Something that will at least help her show more affection towards him. At this point he has tried everything.

Intense counseling from a religious counselor-- if they are both willing. The marriage programs Marriage Encounter and Retrouvaille (these are Catholic based, but even if they are Orthodox they can go).

If she is not willing, he should go to counseling by himself.

Has he attempted to introduce shared prayer into their marriage?

Has he talked to her directly about the problem? Has he actually said anything-- you said he just left the kitchen a mess for a week until he finally got disgusted and cleaned it up… that is passive-agressive. He has to talk and talk in specifics.

I also suggest the book For Better… Forever by Greg Popcak, if one or both will read it.

 

[JamesG]

What are the reasons a woman would stop showing affection towards her husband?

In my friends case I think she doesn’t feel like she has to do anything.

It seems to me that if you love someone then you would always want to act out of love and not because you feel the other person has to pay you for it.

There seems to be a degree of selfishness here that i just don’t understand. I can’t think of any reason why a woman would want to stop loving a guy that providers her with everything she asks. In my friends case she doesn’t even need to work.

 

[AndyF]

Lorarose:

I am always wary when someone asks for generalized statements regarding women or men - as if all women and all men can be pigeonholed.

Actually, the title is quite good as it draws people into the thread, congrats James.!

I’ll admit I’m commenting on the statement itself and didn’t read the post.(My aplogies to James.) That’s because I feel the answer can be given with that little information alone.

Andy

 

[JamesG]

1ke:

Has he talked to her directly about the problem? Has he actually said anything-- you said he just left the kitchen a mess for a week until he finally got disgusted and cleaned it up… that is passive-agressive. He has to talk and talk in specifics.
.

thanks for your suggestions.

I don’t want to provide examples because I’m afraid that people here will read into them and will avoid the problem at hand or make false assumptions

But in defence of my friend, he has openly talked about these issues with her. He just stoped cleaning up after her and then at the end of the week he confronted her on the issue. He wasn’t too happy either.

 

[JamesG]

Let me make the question simple for everyone

If you are a woman and you didn’t feel like pleasing your husband, what changed that? What are the things that you did to fix the problem you had? Did you always expect him to fix the problem?

I would also ask the same questions of married men here as well.

Maybe if I had examples of things that acutally worked and not just great ideas I could help him out.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

JamesG:

I have a friend that recently told me not to get married to a modern woman. He said you will get nothing from her sexually.

He told me only to marry an Italian / traditional girl because she will at least continue to show affection for you. She will even cook you something. He said that women today are tainted by feminism and you have to watchout for that.

After he told me how she is treating him I tried to consider how I would react. My first gut reaction would be to buy another bed and sleep in it alone. There wouldn’t be much difference because I would feel alone anyway even while I slept beside her.

I tried to tell him that he doesn’t deserve it. But I didn’t want to kick a man while he was down by saying anything more.

I’m afraid he is going to just leave his wife or do something worse.
I joked with him and told him just to get her drunk.

I’m not sure what to say to him. He doesn’t have any kids either.

I guess I just don’t understand why a woman would not want to make her man happy. Maybe she is far to selfish.

Is it true that women really become that selfish after they get married? What is the point of getting married to a modern woman if she is incapable of showing affection toward you?

What? You joked with him about getting his wife drunk? That’s simply hurtful and not at all funny.

If I were advising your friend, I would suggest that he seek counseling and look at the areas in the marriage he can work on. Your posts make it sound like your friend is the best husband ever, that he has no flaws at all. It’s just not possible, and if that is what he is telling you, then he either doesn’t see his own faults or is hiding them from you.

He should not be focusing on getting sex and whether or not he is getting sex. He should not be joking with his friends that getting his wife drunk would “fix” their problems. Their problems go much, much deeper than physical intimacy, and it is likely that those underlying issues will need to be solved before the intimacy issue can be worked out.

God bless.

 

[JamesG]

ElizabethAnne:

What? You joked with him about getting his wife drunk? That’s simply hurtful and not at all funny.

If I were advising your friend, I would suggest that he seek counseling and look at the areas in the marriage he can work on. Your posts make it sound like your friend is the best husband ever, that he has no flaws at all. It’s just not possible, and if that is what he is telling you, then he either doesn’t see his own faults or is hiding them from you.

He should not be focusing on getting sex and whether or not he is getting sex. He should not be joking with his friends that getting his wife drunk would “fix” their problems. Their problems go much, much deeper than physical intimacy, and it is likely that those underlying issues will need to be solved before the intimacy issue can be worked out.

God bless.

ouch… here comes the witch hunters. This is exactly why I am not going to provide examples for the inquisition.

that comment made him laugh ok and it cheered him up. But then he told me that she doesn’t drink at all so he went back into his depression.

He would never actually do something like that and either would I.
Getting sex from your wife is important.

You need to chill out and relax.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

JamesG:

But in defence of my friend, he has openly talked about these issues with her. He just stoped cleaning up after her and then at the end of the week he confronted her on the issue. He wasn’t too happy either.

This, as another poster said, sounds like passive-aggressive behavior. He’s unhappy because he feels she’s not doing enough housework. He decides to test her by not cleaning for a week. She is oblivious to the situation. Maybe she was happy with the arrangement where he cleaned more and doesn’t know there is a problem. Maybe she simply doesn’t feel the house needs to be as neat as your friend.

Then, when she doesn’t do what he would like her to do in that situation (take the initiative and clean), he comes down hard on her. If my husband did that to me, I would be angry, and it would be very hard to hear any sort of criticism after that.

Your friend needs to approach his wife. They need to talk about the housework, how they should divide it up, what jobs should get done when, how often they need to be done, etc. It’s not about confronting her, it’s about working things out and communicating with his wife.

God bless.

 

[Magicsilence]

My dad says : “Marry the woman who loves you…”

I know what the OP is talking about.

My mum does the same to my dad. Treats him pretty badly. No affection. Just cold.

UNfortunately, there is no answer. THey live like seperate people now. . IM praying though

IN Christ.

Andre

 

[ElizabethAnne]

JamesG:

ouch… here comes the witch hunters. This is exactly why I am not going to provide examples for the inquisition.

that comment made him laugh ok and it cheered him up. But then he told me that she doesn’t drink at all so he went back into his depression.

He would never actually do something like that and either would I.
Getting sex from your wife is important.

You need to chill out and relax.

All I said was that a comment like that is hurtful and not funny. I do take this situation seriously because this man is obviously facing serious problems with his marriage. I feel that it is very important for all husbands to respect and love their wives. Joking about getting her drunk so that he can sleep with her is just not respectful.

While physical intimacy is important in marriage, there are far more important things in marriage. If there are problems with more important issues, this will lead to problems with intimacy. It is very likely that the first issues need to be addressed before intimacy issues will be fixed.

 

[JamesG]

ElizabethAnne:

This, as another poster said, sounds like passive-aggressive behavior. He’s unhappy because he feels she’s not doing enough housework. He decides to test her by not cleaning for a week. She is oblivious to the situation. Maybe she was happy with the arrangement where he cleaned more and doesn’t know there is a problem. Maybe she simply doesn’t feel the house needs to be as neat as your friend.

Then, when she doesn’t do what he would like her to do in that situation (take the initiative and clean), he comes down hard on her. If my husband did that to me, I would be angry, and it would be very hard to hear any sort of criticism after that.

Your friend needs to approach his wife. They need to talk about the housework, how they should divide it up, what jobs should get done when, how often they need to be done, etc. It’s not about confronting her, it’s about working things out and communicating with his wife.

God bless.

This is exactly why I posted as little details as posssible. I’m not even going to comment on this because it just a bunch of false conclusions.

He has talked to her about all these things and in the manner that you have suggested.

Tell me, when you didn’t feel like showing affection for your husband. how did you correct the problem? Have you experienced this kind of thing?

 

[JamesG]

ElizabethAnne:

All I said was that a comment like that is hurtful and not funny. I do take this situation seriously because this man is obviously facing serious problems with his marriage. I feel that it is very important for all husbands to respect and love their wives. Joking about getting her drunk so that he can sleep with her is just not respectful.

While physical intimacy is important in marriage, there are far more important things in marriage. If there are problems with more important issues, this will lead to problems with intimacy. It is very likely that the first issues need to be addressed before intimacy issues will be fixed.

well I still think it was funny and so did he.

 

[1ke]

JamesG:

What are the reasons a woman would stop showing affection towards her husband?

There are a million reasons, motivations, and situations that could answer this. So, IMHO, the question is not why would a woman stop showing affection, but why has this woman stopped? You cannot continue to try to make broad generalizations fit this specific situation.

JamesG:

In my friends case I think she doesn’t feel like she has to do anything.

Well, that may be true. But, then getting to the root of why is your friend’s task.

JamesG:

It seems to me that if you love someone then you would always want to act out of love and not because you feel the other person has to pay you for it.

Of course! This is a reasonable assumption.

JamesG:

There seems to be a degree of selfishness here that i just don’t understand. I can’t think of any reason why a woman would want to stop loving a guy that providers her with everything she asks. In my friends case she doesn’t even need to work.

You do not know that she has “stopped loving” him. She may have issues, she may have clinical depression, she may have her own set of unmet expectations-- no way to know until he sits down and asks and hopefully with a counselor.

I know you want answers… But… You are not going to get your answer here on this forum. We do not know these people and we do not have any idea what she could be thinking or feeling.

 

[dulcissima]

What is the purpose of this thread? It doesn’t sound like you are actually looking for any advice for your friend. It seems more like you are just saying “Don’t trust women” by providing a very one-sided look at marriage. What were you hoping to accomplish here?

 

[1ke]

JamesG:

I don’t want to provide examples because I’m afraid that people here will read into them and will avoid the problem at hand or make false assumptions

Then we cannot help you.

JamesG:

But in defence of my friend, he has openly talked about these issues with her. He just stoped cleaning up after her and then at the end of the week he confronted her on the issue. He wasn’t too happy either.

That is not “openly talking” with her. That is classic passive-agressive behavior. Confrontation is not talking, it is a power struggle. Talking is sitting down when you are both calm and there is no immediate conflict and discussing future behavior, not what someone has or has not done in the past.

Talking with the focus on problem solving is the best form of communication. Perhaps your friend does not do this, and instead takes an approach of blaming, criticizing, etc. Not that this is his intent, but rather his approach.

 

[steveandersen]

JamesG:

I have a friend that recently told me not to get married to a modern woman. He said you will get nothing from her sexually…

Is it true that women really become that selfish after they get married? What is the point of getting married to a modern woman if she is incapable of showing affection toward you?

Sounds like my ex-wife

But broad generalizations are not a good thing to base decisions on. Many married couples that I know are quite happy.

 

[1ke]

JamesG:

This is exactly why I posted as little details as posssible. I’m not even going to comment on this because it just a bunch of false conclusions.

Ok James, I’m done here. This is a completely silly statement. You have basically said “I have a problem. I’m not going to give you any details but I’m going to ask for advice. And, when you try to give me advice I’m going to tell you that you are wrong because you don’t know the details.”

We have been patient with you. You are on your own now.

JamesG:

He has talked to her about all these things and in the manner that you have suggested.

You are hearing his side of it. Your OP was about how you now distrust your judgment because this person has had a bad experience. He needs to quit crying in his beer to you and start talking to a counselor.

JamesG:

Tell me, when you didn’t feel like showing affection for your husband. how did you correct the problem? Have you experienced this kind of thing?

Again, I recommend the books His Needs, Her Needs and The Five Love Languages. You make assumptions about her needs-- such as when you say she doesn’t even need to work. Whatever it is she needs-- he’s not filling that need. I don’t know what that need is, only she does. Clearly she’s not filling his need for intimacy and affection.

Only they can resolve this.