Friend says her guru cannot sin

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My friend is Hindu. We sometimes have religious discussions. Anyway, she follows a guru who she basically compares to a saint in heaven, except that he is currently living on Earth. She prays to him, and see him as a sort of conduit for God. She thinks he can hear her prayers and that if the guru is in a large room of people he starts to feel all their sins.

Anyway, she also believes that he cannot sin, because he has reached enlightenment or something.

What should I say to her?
 
Nothing.

Unless she has expressed interest in learning more about Christianity.
 
Oh ok, thanks. I guess I didn’t realize Christianity stopped being a missionary religion and we just let everyone believe whatever they want. Hey, while we’re at it, we should probably just take down CAF because who needs to learn to defend the truth anyway!
 
phil8888 said:
Oh ok, thanks. I guess I didn’t realize Christianity stopped being a missionary religion and we just let everyone believe whatever they want. Hey, while we’re at it, we should probably just take down CAF because who needs to learn to defend the truth anyway!
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Why are you singling her out then? What do you do when you meet a protestant, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, or atheist? Whatever it is, I guess that’s what you should do to your friend.
 
Lisel said:
Why are you singling her out then? What do you do when you meet a protestant, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, or atheist? Whatever it is, I guess that’s what you should do to your friend.
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well, I usually respond to them when they talk about religious topics, and I have answers. So that’s what I’m doing here. looking for answers to give her.

I’m kind of wondering why I post a question like this and instead of answering, people question the question. Is it because they don’t have an answer for me?
 
phil8888 said:
well, I usually respond to them when they talk about religious topics, and I have answers. So that’s what I’m doing here. looking for answers to give her.

I’m kind of wondering why I post a question like this and instead of answering, people question the question. Is it because they don’t have an answer for me?
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Answers to what? You never said she had any questions.
 
Probably a simple statement is the best way to handle it. One along the lines of “I believe that only God is incapable of sin. If a mere human claims to be without sin, he elevates himself to the level of God.”

I might also ask whether she can be certain this guru never once during his life committed sin or even a sinful thought especially before his supposed enlightenment.

Enlightenment does not remove sin. Only in reconciling with God through Jesus, His Only Begotten Son, can sin be forgiven.

I don’t expect a Hindu would accept such statements, but they may help her understand the Christian message.
 
If she believes he can hear her prayers, tell her to ask him to tell her what she’s praying.
 
phil8888 said:
Oh ok, thanks. I guess I didn’t realize Christianity stopped being a missionary religion and we just let everyone believe whatever they want. Hey, while we’re at it, we should probably just take down CAF because who needs to learn to defend the truth anyway!
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You can’t convince anyone who is not ready to be convinced. Preaching at someone who is not ready is more likely than not to drive them away and harden their hearts even more. You can’t control how another person thinks or believes. Become a living icon of Christ by offering selfless love to everyone and be ready to answer questions if asked (1 Peter 3:15). That is far more powerful than anything else you can do. 😉

In Christ
Joe
 
This topic is old and probably irrelevant now. However, for all those looking at this topic, here is what you should do.

We can not force someone to see our way. Otherwise, what reward would that be for the person if they became Catholic? We can only act as an advisory for these people and plead to them that they reconsider their options, based on your Christianity. If they ask about your opinion, speak of our Christianity in relation to the topic. Don’t do nothing, because then you would not of planted a seed. Don’t try everything to shovel Christianity on them, because then you would of scared them off. Be an advisor, because only a priest is educated enough to lecture someone.
 
Thanks to the people who actually answered my question.

I disagree with what people are saying for this given circumstance, because it is a “discussion” as I said already. we are talking about religion. I’m not just randomly coming up to her and saying “hey there, I hear you believe this. let me tell you why that’s wrong.” we’re discussing religion. she is even comparing this guru to catholic saints.

she deserves and answer, even if it’s not an explicit question she is asking.

What I’m sensing is that you don’t really know what you would say so you’re just saying it’s best not to say anything.

In any event, I understand that people feel that way, but it’s redundant now to simply repeat over and over why I shouldn’t tell her anything.

I asked a question and I’m seeking an answer. If you don’t know the answer, don’t tell me there’s no point in seeking one. She deserves better than that.

So if you have a way to respond, then please share.
 
phil8888 said:
My friend is Hindu. We sometimes have religious discussions. Anyway, she follows a guru who she basically compares to a saint in heaven, except that he is currently living on Earth. She prays to him, and see him as a sort of conduit for God. She thinks he can hear her prayers and that if the guru is in a large room of people he starts to feel all their sins.

Anyway, she also believes that he cannot sin, because he has reached enlightenment or something.

What should I say to her?
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That as a Christian your belief is that only God is incapable of sin…The rest of us by our broken human natures do sin.

Because as Christians that is what we believe. 😉
 
Newbie2 said:
Nothing.

Unless she has expressed interest in learning more about Christianity.
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I agree with this. Convincing her otherwise would be proselytizing and would more or less lead to conflict rather than conversion.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I agree with this. Convincing her otherwise would be proselytizing and would more or less lead to conflict rather than conversion.
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Ok for the sticklers, assume she said “Hi Phil. My guru cannot sin and he is a conduit for God, etc. etc. What is your opinion on that and why. Please explain your church’s viewpoint and why you think my viewpoint may not be correct.”

And saying our faith doesn’t say that would probably not satisfy her curiosity.
 
Dear Friend Phil8888:

It is very good of you care so much about your friend. Before you decide what to say to her, there are some things that perhaps you might want to take into account. Firstly, you need to understand the strength of the thing you are dealing with. There is no equivalent in western culture to a guru and disciple relationship. It is a very personal level of interaction, and it is likely she trusts the guru more than any relative. Whether you can agree with that idea or not, that is the reality, because she will trust no one more than she trusts her teacher. If you try to tell her otherwise she might end up avoiding you. That is a risk you might to take into account. She can walk away from the guru any time she likes without anyone trying to stop her, but if she thinks that she’s truly found her teacher, she won’t leave any sooner than she would leave her own children. That is how tight this relationship you are dealing with is.

Regarding sin, in the religion she is practicing, it has a different connotation that it does in Abrahamic traditions. For her it will mean more being out of alignment or out of synch with proper or natural order, rather than being bad and needing punishment from God. In her faith, the only way to be free of sin is not forgiveness, but overcoming it by burning away the desire to sin. She will believe that is achievable through enlightenment, which will include seeing God in all creatures and in herself. She will believe that once she is able to see that, she will have no desire to defile herself or others. It is more a matter of freedom from the shackles of the desire to sin, rather than forgiveness from God. For her, God isn’t holding, nor ever has held anything including sin against her. He is simply awaiting the time when she will awaken to who and what she really is, and no longer have any wants or desires of any sort. That includes the desire to sin. She will believe that is possible for her to do in this very life through her own effort. For her there is no judgment day, and telling her that there is one isn’t going to sound like a very interesting idea.

You asked what you should say. My suggestion is this: Namaste, which means “that which is of God in me greets that which is of God in you.” Then she will know that you love and respect her for who she is. If you want to tell her that she’s wrong, that is up to you. You will probably see less of her.

Your friend
Sufjon
 
phil8888 said:
Ok for the sticklers, assume she said “Hi Phil. My guru cannot sin and he is a conduit for God, etc. etc. What is your opinion on that and why. Please explain your church’s viewpoint and why you think my viewpoint may not be correct.”

And saying our faith doesn’t say that would probably not satisfy her curiosity.
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Our Catholic faith says that every man is a sinner. While he may be a “conduit for God” (we all are in some manner), we would believe that such does not keep him from being a sinner.

Bada bing.
 
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