Friend says it's "wrong" that priests absolve us of our sins?

[ellam25]

So I have had this argument before with her and others actually. She accused catholics of putting Mary on a “giant pedestal” and that those who worship her will be basically sent to hell and that we are mocking God by worshipping her. Since the pope announced that priests can forgive women who have had abortions now, she says it is extremely sinful to expect a mere man to forgive us when we should be asking God. I tried explaing that we neither worship Mary nor expect the priest to forgive our sins; but that they are like telephones in which to reach the holy spirit. She just kind of sneered at me and said that God won’t be mocked. Anyway just wondrng what everyone thinks

 

[Vico]

So I have had this argument before with her and others actually. She accused catholics of putting Mary on a “giant pedestal” and that those who worship her will be basically sent to hell and that we are mocking God by worshipping her. Since the pope announced that priests can forgive women who have had abortions now, she says it is extremely sinful to expect a mere man to forgive us when we should be asking God. I tried explaing that we neither worship Mary nor expect the priest to forgive our sins; but that they are like telephones in which to reach the holy spirit. She just kind of sneered at me and said that God won’t be mocked. Anyway just wondrng what everyone thinks

Penance: Jn 20:21-23; Mk 2:7

Adoration:

[Council of Ephesus, Part I, ch. 26]: “If anyone dare to say that the man assumed should be adored besides the Divine Word, as though these were distinct persons; and does not rather honor the Emmanuel with one single adoration, inasmuch as the Word was made flesh; let him be anathema.”

Hyperdulia:

St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III, Q25, A5

Reply to Objection 2. The honor given to the Mother reflects on her Son, because the Mother is to be honored for her Son’s sake. But not in the same way as honor given to an image reflects on its exemplar: because the image itself, considered as a thing, is not to be venerated in any way at all.

 

[Domiy]

So I have had this argument before with her and others actually. She accused catholics of putting Mary on a “giant pedestal” and that those who worship her will be basically sent to hell and that we are mocking God by worshipping her. Since the pope announced that priests can forgive women who have had abortions now, she says it is extremely sinful to expect a mere man to forgive us when we should be asking God. I tried explaing that we neither worship Mary nor expect the priest to forgive our sins; but that they are like telephones in which to reach the holy spirit. She just kind of sneered at me and said that God won’t be mocked. Anyway just wondrng what everyone thinks

I’ve dealt with this kind before also. For a start, absolution is supported in the bible. Further, Catholics don’t worship Mary. This is a common misconception. We simply show respect and glory towards her, no more than that shown towards saints.

I’m curious, what do critics of absolution think is a more accurate method of obtaining forgiveness?

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Without being very clear about the circumstances of these encounters, next time they bring it up maybe you could remind them you’ve nothing new to add on those particular subjects to what you said before (unless they are going to be receptive to what Domiy and Vico are saying of course) and just smile?

I pray God will help them focus on what common ground they have with you and you will know His peace among you. Also that they will be open to more light on these subjects anyway.

 

[Memaw]

So I have had this argument before with her and others actually. She accused catholics of putting Mary on a “giant pedestal” and that those who worship her will be basically sent to hell and that we are mocking God by worshipping her. Since the pope announced that priests can forgive women who have had abortions now, she says it is extremely sinful to expect a mere man to forgive us when we should be asking God. I tried explaing that we neither worship Mary nor expect the priest to forgive our sins; but that they are like telephones in which to reach the holy spirit. She just kind of sneered at me and said that God won’t be mocked. Anyway just wondrng what everyone thinks

I always ask them if they believe in the 8th Commandment. Telling lies about someone or their beliefs is against it. If they persist in their lies then I just tell them I no longer want to discus my beliefs with them. And pray for them. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

A “mere man” is made in the likeness of God.

If your friend says a “mere man” cannot forgive sins, then how does your friend forgive? Or does this friend deign to bestow forgiveness on “mere people” that are like them in every way but sin.

Is your friend able to look at a “mere man” and see Christ? Slightly different question, but I’d bet money that the answer is “no” even if they insist it is yes. :nope:

Surely your friend judges (this OP is a case in point) so that gives rise to the need to ask others for mercy. Would your friend refuse your forgiveness for judging you and the Church without knowing what they are talking about? My guess would be “yes” because after all, those who are not sick do not need treatment, right?

I think it’s kind of funny that after the Catholic Church actually writes and protects the Bible for 1500-ish years until we get a printing press, and then everybody and their Protestant dogs grabs a copy and tells the Church she doesn’t know how to read what she wrote and defended for so long. Some of them would be horrified at the suggestion that THEY got THEIR Bible from the CATHOLICS, but too bad the truth hurts those who are not with it.

 

[Billy112]

All I can say to do is pray for her.

 

[coachdennis]

So I have had this argument before with her and others actually. She accused catholics of putting Mary on a “giant pedestal” and that those who worship her will be basically sent to hell and that we are mocking God by worshipping her. Since the pope announced that priests can forgive women who have had abortions now, she says it is extremely sinful to expect a mere man to forgive us when we should be asking God. I tried explaing that we neither worship Mary nor expect the priest to forgive our sins; but that they are like telephones in which to reach the holy spirit. She just kind of sneered at me and said that God won’t be mocked. Anyway just wondrng what everyone thinks

This is not the answer you want to hear, but except for praying for her, there is very little you can do. The truth is, she does not want to hear your explanation, she is not interested in your explanation, or open to the truth. Why would she be open to hearing the truth and possibly changing her worldview and faith? In her eyes, YOU are the heretic.

If this is your friend and sneers at your beliefs, quite honestly you need better friends in your life. If you cannot avoid her, then stick to superficial topics like the weather.

 

[Mike_Dye]

So I have had this argument before with her and others actually. She accused catholics of putting Mary on a “giant pedestal” and that those who worship her will be basically sent to hell and that we are mocking God by worshipping her. Since the pope announced that priests can forgive women who have had abortions now, she says it is extremely sinful to expect a mere man to forgive us when we should be asking God. I tried explaing that we neither worship Mary nor expect the priest to forgive our sins; but that they are like telephones in which to reach the holy spirit. She just kind of sneered at me and said that God won’t be mocked. Anyway just wondrng what everyone thinks

Jesus must have got it wrong when He said to the apostles, " Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained." Funny how protestants are “Bible Alone” until it doesn’t fit their own beliefs.

 

[SMH_2015]

If this is your friend and sneers at your beliefs, quite honestly you need better friends in your life. If you cannot avoid her, then stick to superficial topics like the weather.

You took the words out of my mouth, coachdennis. Someone who would react so rudely to your religion is not much of a friend.

 

[seagal]

Catholic.com has lots of great resources for you to help defend Catholic beliefs. Just click on the Catholic Answers logo on the top left of this page. I found a tract that explains why we confess our sins to priests, here’s an excerpt

"This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power “glorified God, who had given such authority to men” (Matt. 9:8; note the plural “men”). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained” (John 20:21–23).

… Sacramental reconciliation is required only for grave or mortal sins—but **it is required, or Christ would not have commanded it. ** [emphasis mine]"

You can also find resources about how we honour Mary, why she is due that honour, and how that is definitely not worship.

 

[fred_conty]

So many non-Catholics have worship confused with love and honor. They equate love = worship.

The fourth commandment requires us to love and honor our parents. But that isn’t worship.
Jesus was required to love and honor his parents, but that wasn’t worship.
We love and honor Mary, and so that isn’t worship.

As far as kneeling in front of her statue, that is our jesture of deepest prayer. Jesus prostrated himself in deep prayer in the garden of olives. People fall on their knees to express their earnestness in prayer.

The Webster’s Dictionary says that prayer is:1) act of praying 2) an entreaty, supplication.

Obviously one of the problems of those who believe that only at the final judgment will people go to heaven is that Mary is not yet in heaven until that final comming.
So whether they know it or not, this is a real objection in the back of their mind about praying to Mary, namely being dead.

But we believe she is alive in heaven with Jesus. So we can and do pray (ask) her for her help just as we would ask anyone else who is alive for their help.

But I very much doubt if your acquaintance would allow you to explain this since she sounds like she has already made up her mind on the subject.

 

[Domiy]

Very well said fred

I will admit that the praise and glory of the Virgin Mary is something that is more cultural than scriptural in the Catholic faith. There is nothing that directly says we must pay the amount of respect we do to Mary. It is mostly a cultural value of our faith. Growing up in Italy, a Catholic child would’ve been taught to pray and give glory to the plethora of Italian saints, just like a French Catholic would’ve been told the same about the French saints. Neither are incorrect. It is just that their social culture places a particular emphasis on one thing more than the other. As long as God alone remains the supreme Alpha and Omega, then there’s no harm.

If a ‘mere man’ cannot forgive sins, then we are all doomed. Critics usually say that repent and prayer alone should be enough for forgiveness. Technically, prayer and repent are the acts of a mere man as well. Anything you do on earth, even under some sort of divine influence, is still being done by a ‘mere man’.

I’d also be interested to hear what they think about Jesus forgiving the adulterer of her sins in the Bible, or the dozens of other people he gave forgiveness to. Wasn’t Jesus also just a mere man? Sure, he performed miracles and was obviously under divine intervention, but then again so were some of the saints, who were also just mere humans.

 

[DebChris]

Of course, God will not be mocked. How often did Jesus reply to the Pharisee when they questioned His ability to forgive sins with a physical miracle?
Now we don’t ask physical healings from our priest. We do recognize, as has already been mentioned that Christ handled down His authority to the Apostles to forgive sins. It is written in the scriptures.
There is a certain fear that dominate the anger behind such a vehement stance against Catholic teaching. Why is your friend so afraid that your sins may actually be forgiven? To ask a priest for forgiveness requires a certain amount of humility. There is a comfort and solace found in receiving the absolution and guidance that helps us become better Christians. How jealous your friend must be!
At the Cross our Lord gave Mary to the Church to be our Mother when He placed her into the care of John. Who gave greater honor to His mother than our Lord? Who wouldn’t want to see us likewise honor her who made our salvation possible through her Fiat? Christ was born of Mary and He is our Salvation.

 

[JRS_88]

Frankly, there are people who will never take anything you say as a good response. They’ve made their mind up about what the Catholic Church teaches and are basically just looking to argue. You can’t reach these people, just pray for them and move on.

 

[DebChris]

Frankly, there are people who will never take anything you say as a good response. They’ve made their mind up about what the Catholic Church teaches and are basically just looking to argue. You can’t reach these people, just pray for them and move on.

Continue to be her friend, but don’t let her drag you enter any arguments about Faith. As she continues to see you live your Faith, she may in time come to understand. Often simply being a friend is the best way to evangelize.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Continue to be her friend, but don’t let her drag you enter any arguments about Faith. As she continues to see you live your Faith, she may in time come to understand. Often simply being a friend is the best way to evangelize.