Friend speaks about "My Catholicism"

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CuriousAlan

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My friend of many years constantly bickers with me about religion. I am a traditionalist Catholic and she is one of those New Age rationalists who misinterpret Vat.II like crazy. I tried to get her to watch Michael Voris’s Church Militant.TV on the “Church of Nice”

She would refuse and refuse constantly and blabbered that some modernist church that removed their kneelers and doesn’t even have a crucifix “suits her faith better”. She speaks as if all is happy go lucky and all are right and none are wrong and people may create their own form of beliefs.

She also tries to put social justice issues on the same level of intrinsic evils, which is wrong and liberal.

What can I do to get my friend to stop being the rationalist new age “Catholic”
 
I would ask her what she is going to do when she dies and see what she says. I would want to know if she thinks there is a purpose to life and why we have an innate curiosity to go beyond ourselves and to explore the unknown.
I bet she doesn’t know Paschal’s wager.
 
Her faith should not contradict her Faith. Find some awesome videos or memes out there; they’re on Facebook and Youtube. Maybe ask her how her relationship with God is. Bring it up casually like, “I talked to God a lot the other day; I was having a horrible day. Do you ever just complain to God all day?” Pray for her, as it seems she does not want to talk about it too much. Don’t get frustrated. 🙂
 
New Age Catholic? Hmmm I must be missing something. The only time I don’t see kneelers is if the church isnt built yet and they’re having mass in chairs in a gym or something out of the ordinary. The whole thing sounds strange to me.
 
I have a better idea. Give her the following link to the Documents of the II Vatican Council and let her read what the council actually says. There’s nothing wrong with it, but many people have never read them and have taken others word as to both what they say and what they might mean.

Voris is not the kind of source that I would ever use in such a situation. There are far better sources for materials available.

I can suggest the Bible Christian Society, especially Apologetics for the Masses - Issue #208 Does God want everyone to be Catholic?

Also Our Sunday Visitor’s Tracts and Grotto Press Tracts
 
You can try to talk to her about the fact that there is not a “My Catholicism”. Our faith isn’t a private affair. We can’t make it what we want it to be. We are one. Here is a quote from Pope Francis’ new encyclical Lumen Fidei :
“By professing the same faith, we stand firm on the same rock, we are transformed by the same Spirit of love, we radiate one light and we have a single insight into reality. Since faith is one, it must be professed in all its purity and integrity. Precisely because all the articles of faith are interconnected, to deny one of them, even of those that seem least important, is tantamount to distorting the whole.” Pope Francis (Lumen fidei)
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The new encyclical might be a place to start a dialogue with her.
 
I think your best course of action if you don’t want to constantly argue about your beliefs is to not discuss them. Your friend is actually unsure about the direction he/she has taken. When folks are that fiery in convincing you of something or defending their position it means they are pretty insecure. I am a Social Worker, and l have found that people who are secure in themselves and in their morals and values do not have to convince others.
As a Catholic, if your faith brings you peace and joy, then you have a serenity that does not need defending. Pray for your friend.
 
njames51 said:
I think your best course of action if you don’t want to constantly argue about your beliefs is to not discuss them. Your friend is actually unsure about the direction he/she has taken. When folks are that fiery in convincing you of something or defending their position it means they are pretty insecure. I am a Social Worker, and l have found that people who are secure in themselves and in their morals and values do not have to convince others.
As a Catholic, if your faith brings you peace and joy, then you have a serenity that does not need defending. Pray for your friend.
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👍
 
Karen107 said:
New Age Catholic? Hmmm I must be missing something. The only time I don’t see kneelers is if the church isnt built yet and they’re having mass in chairs in a gym or something out of the ordinary. The whole thing sounds strange to me.
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Yes it does sound strange…but it is also true…There is a Catholic parish near me that does not have kneelers. This parish in in good standing with the Diocese and our parish even does things with them like reconciliation services during lent and combined sports teams…

So - these do exist…

Peace
James
 
CuriousAlan said:
My friend of many years constantly bickers with me about religion.
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Not exactly sure what this means…but as my dear mother use to say - it takes two to make a fight…so it sounds like it is up to you to refuse to “bicker” about the faith.
Before going any further…Let me ask a question.
Is this person a Loving person in the Christian sense of the word?
Are you?
I don’t mean this as an insult or attack…but Love must be the basis of our faith and if you and your friend are both Loving in the Christian sense, then you will decline to “bicker” with each other.
Instead you will seek to discuss these matters calmly - looking for common ground as well as those areas where there might be disagreement and where you disagree, there can be matters that are doctrinally wrong…or they might simply be different approaches.
I am a traditionalist Catholic and she is one of those New Age rationalists who misinterpret Vat.II like crazy. I tried to get her to watch Michael Voris’s Church Militant.TV on the “Church of Nice”
Click to expand...
She would refuse and refuse constantly and blabbered that some modernist church that removed their kneelers and doesn’t even have a crucifix “suits her faith better”. She speaks as if all is happy go lucky and all are right and none are wrong and people may create their own form of beliefs.
Click to expand...
Well obviously with the two of you being opposites in how you approach the faith - coming to an understanding is going to be difficult.
If you are willing to invest the time and energy (and patience and humility) I suggest you seek to understand “her faith” point by point. Where you feel there is error, YOU go to the catechism, Vatican II documents etc. and look up the salient points. Ask her to comment and have a discussion.
Do not expect to change her mind necessarily. The best you can do is to plant some seeds and give her something to think about. She may do the same for you with the result that you each are able to grow.
She also tries to put social justice issues on the same level of intrinsic evils, which is wrong and liberal.
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I’m not sure this is entirely true…many social justice issues - indeed everything in life - has intrinsic goods and intrinsic evils within and behind them. Many times such issues need to be probed and dissected in order to determine what’s what…
What can I do to get my friend to stop being the rationalist new age “Catholic”
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Love her and pray for her. Discuss these matters calmly and consistently. Separate what is really important from those things that are less so.

Something else that might be of considerable help. Ask her about her prayer life.
How often does she pray and for how long? Has she ever heard of Lectio Divina?
Does she pray the rosary or Divine Mercy?
You might invite her to read and pray and meditate on Scripture and on various other materials. Offer to do the same with anything that she might choose to provide to you.
Pray together at times…
I believe that you and she might make the greatest discoveries about each other and about the faith through prayer and contemplation.

Hope this helps some

Peace
James
 
CuriousAlan said:
My friend of many years constantly bickers with me about religion. I am a traditionalist Catholic and she is one of those New Age rationalists who misinterpret Vat.II like crazy. I tried to get her to watch Michael Voris’s Church Militant.TV on the “Church of Nice”
Click to expand...
I have seen this episode from Voris, and it is NOT so “nice.” If you are attracted to this type of proselytizing with his extremist personality, it most assuredly will rub off on you, though you may not recognize it. Many of Voris’s flock adopt the same rigorist means to evangelize others. Problem is, others resent it and this method creates a turn-off to possible dialogue.

It would be interesting to hear her side of the story, which for the most part may be 99% orthodox. Traditionists tend to believe that everyone else is wrong except their own view of things and they can become fixated, even obsessive, to correct any and all who come in close relationship with them.

The war between trads and non-trads is just beginning, and unless the Church intervenes in some positive way, it will escalate into a nasty division between brothers.

How did you two become friends? Who changed in this friendship? What maintains it besides your common Catholic denomination? Do you foresee that eventually it will end, for two opposites usually do not walk together?
 
Hi Alan,

Echoing others, I would say do everything with gentleness and respect. Also be willing to listen and learn as well as wanting to speak and teach. It sounds like your friend may be able to teach you about the importance of social justice issues, just as you may be able to teach your friend about the more doctrinal aspects of the Church.

God bless +

Michael
 
CuriousAlan said:
My friend of many years constantly bickers with me about religion. I am a traditionalist Catholic and she is one of those New Age rationalists who misinterpret Vat.II like crazy.
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Why do you bicker about religion? What good fruit are you expecting to come from it?

If you disagree, then stop talking about it. End of bickering. And basically, if you can’t accept someone else’s views as being just as important and just as deserving of respect as your own, you do more harm than good by trying to evangelize. Badgering people doesn’t lead them to the Lord.
 
For anyone wondering how we met… We well, we met back in 8th grade and now we go to the same college. We have had on and off dating throughout our years, but I no longer want anything to do with her that involves dating, because of events totally unrelated to the topic. Anyways, we have a love-hate relationship, I know she yearns to have me back, but religiously and politically we are opposites plus we are pretty staunch on out stances.

As for why we debate? Its never intentional. It usually starts when I am speaking with another friend about how great our Monsignor says the NO Ad Orientem, which usually causes the girl to rage about how she hates the Monsignor for speaking on controversial topics. Our Monsignor at out parish is well loved and controversial, for he isn’t afraid to speak. He reminds me much of Cardinal Burke.
 
CuriousAlan said:
For anyone wondering how we met… We well, we met back in 8th grade and now we go to the same college. We have had on and off dating throughout our years, but I no longer want anything to do with her that involves dating, because of events totally unrelated to the topic. Anyways, we have a love-hate relationship, I know she yearns to have me back, but religiously and politically we are opposites plus we are pretty staunch on out stances.

As for why we debate? Its never intentional. It usually starts when I am speaking with another friend about how great our Monsignor says the NO Ad Orientem, which usually causes the girl to rage about how she hates the Monsignor for speaking on controversial topics. Our Monsignor at out parish is well loved and controversial, for he isn’t afraid to speak. He reminds me much of Cardinal Burke.
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I would begin here…with the bolded. This girl is your sister in Christ through baptism and the Monsignor is your brother. Hating is not allowed…it is a grievous sin and I would feel it my duty to gently point this out. Use Mt 5:43-48 and Mt 7:2.
Explain that this hatred she harbors is a serious matter.
Of course this needs to be done in a quiet time…not while she is “raging”.

Peace
James
 
Lost_Sheep said:
She is going to say “I’m going to Heaven.” :rolleyes:
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As soon as I wrote that I thought of the same thing. I guess it is a matter of typing before thinking. But I guess you could ask her about the passage in John that says salvation is from the Jews to see what she says ???

I have read some good suggestions here and it seems that the best responses involve the peace in one’s heart and inner joy of knowing the truth. A constant bickering from someone sometimes means that they are probing to know what is in you that makes you feel that way or to try to disturb your peace to make you feel more like them.
 
JRKH said:
I would begin here…with the bolded. This girl is your sister in Christ through baptism and the Monsignor is your brother. Hating is not allowed…it is a grievous sin and I would feel it my duty to gently point this out. Use Mt 5:43-48 and Mt 7:2.
Explain that this hatred she harbors is a serious matter.
Of course this needs to be done in a quiet time…not while she is “raging”.
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James, have you seen the video the OP wants his friend to watch? If he is avid about that message of Voris’s, then it is not too hard to believe that he is using an exaggerated literary form of expression: his friend may not be raging, and/or full of hatred.

Voris again attacks the OF liturgy, priests who celebrate it, and in particular, a bishop. This is his customary venue whenever he gets on his bandstand. All are lumped together as being lukewarm and too cowardly to preach truth - but ask him about his traditionalist parish, and you will find that his TLM is the only acceptable liturgy.

Since the OP wants her to view it, his message to her would be that her way of worship is highly inferior to his, new age, liberal, and any other adjective we see commonly used by the Voris fanclub.
 
Sirach2 said:
James, have you seen the video the OP wants his friend to watch? If he is avid about that message of Voris’s, then it is not too hard to believe that he is using an exaggerated literary form of expression: his friend may not be raging, and/or full of hatred.

Voris again attacks the OF liturgy, priests who celebrate it, and in particular, a bishop. This is his customary venue whenever he gets on his bandstand. All are lumped together as being lukewarm and too cowardly to preach truth - but ask him about his traditionalist parish, and you will find that his TLM is the only acceptable liturgy.

Since the OP wants her to view it, his message to her would be that her way of worship is highly inferior to his, new age, liberal, and any other adjective we see commonly used by the Voris fanclub.
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Sirach -
Quite right…I have not watched the video and was not aware of these things you mention.
That said I need to simply revert to my original advice…in post number 11…That they need to ask if they are acting out of Christian love toward one another.

Peace
James
 
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