Friend went to John Edwards "talk to dead" event

[PJR]

A good friend of mine-who is not Catholic but her husband and daughter are-went to see John Edwards. Her Catholic husband even bought the tickets for her birthday!

I have her daughter in Confirmation prep 8th grade CCD and this topic will come up several times in both ten commandment and gifts of the Spirit lessons. I don’t want to upset my friend, but her daughter may come home and report that I told her it was a sin.

How can I inform her on the Church teaching regarding trying to contact the dead? She has already told me that it shouldn’t be a problem, after all John Edwards is Catholic. My somewhat joking response was “Well, he won’t be the first Catholic in hell.”

I am also reading a suggested book titled “The Challenging Counterfeit” It is not a Catholic work, but tells a chilling story of a Spiritualist medium. He considered himself to be a good Christian for years until he realized the control the demonic had on these spirit guides.

Any other suggested resources? PJR

 

[LDNCatholic]

A good friend of mine-who is not Catholic but her husband and daughter are-went to see John Edwards. Her Catholic husband even bought the tickets for her birthday!

I have her daughter in Confirmation prep 8th grade CCD and this topic will come up several times in both ten commandment and gifts of the Spirit lessons. I don’t want to upset my friend, but her daughter may come home and report that I told her it was a sin.

How can I inform her on the Church teaching regarding trying to contact the dead? She has already told me that it shouldn’t be a problem, after all John Edwards is Catholic. My somewhat joking response was “Well, he won’t be the first Catholic in hell.”

I am also reading a suggested book titled “The Challenging Counterfeit” It is not a Catholic work, but tells a chilling story of a Spiritualist medium. He considered himself to be a good Christian for years until he realized the control the demonic had on these spirit guides.

Any other suggested resources? PJR

Maybe just rely on non religious sources that can inform this poor woman of what utter nonsense it is and how people like Edwards use clever manipulation techniques to trick people into believing in his ‘powers’ I can’t think of any off the top of my head but there must be hundreds of websites and books out there. Once she realises the stupidity of it all she’ll probably accept that its a sinful thing to have done.

God Bless

Peter

 

[Mirdath]

Waaaaaaait, you mean it’s not the presidential candidate practicing necromancy? That threw me for a loop… oh, John Edward.

Here is the Catechism on divination, sorcery, necromancy, and all that fun stuff. That’ll do for the Catholic point of view.

But like LDNCatholic suggests, going after it based on the fact that it’s a total steaming pile is probably going to be more effective. Check out what James Randi has to say: here’s one article.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

In the Apostle’s Creed we say, “…we believe in the communion of the saints…”

This means that it is only through the saints is there any kind of contact with souls that have gone before us.

John Edwards is NOT “communicating with the saints.” If he is “communicating” at all it would be with the impetus of a spiritual world that is NOT of God.

Any souls that roam the earth and have not gone to judgment are souls that were too attached to earthly things and are troubled and in torment.

That is why we pray for the souls of the “faithful departed.” Beyond the vail there is only good and evil but there COULD be a “gray area” of souls in need of release for judgment.

Souls that have gone on do not keep in touch that still remain. John Edwards show is nothing but a mordernized “seance” and is against the First Commandment.

Stay away, good people.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Any souls that roam the earth and have not gone to judgment are souls that were too attached to earthly things and are troubled and in torment.

That is why we pray for the souls of the “faithful departed.” Beyond the vail there is only good and evil but there COULD be a “gray area” of souls in need of release for judgment.

The Church doesn’t teach this surely?

 

[Mirdath]

The Church doesn’t teach this surely?

I’m pretty sure it doesn’t. You die, you go to heaven, hell, or purgatory. I have heard it said that perhaps ghosts are actually the souls in Purgatory, but don’t know of any official pronouncement on the matter.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I’m pretty sure it doesn’t. You die, you go to heaven, hell, or purgatory. I have heard it said that perhaps ghosts are actually the souls in Purgatory, but don’t know of any official pronouncement on the matter.

I’ve thought that myself once or twice but I can’t see why there would be ghosts wandering around if there are two absolute destinations (and a pit stop if you need it on the way to heaven).

 

[PazFeAmor]

The Church doesn’t teach this surely?

It is taught in the Catholic Church that we may pray for those who are in Purgatory. We may ask God in our prayers to have mercy on their souls so that they may be released from Purgatory and enter into heaven BUT it is all dependant on God’s will.

**The Catechism **states on page 291 (1032)

“From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God”.

***Suffrage meaning intercessory prayers or supplications

So, it our duty to prayer for them and to also offer masses on their behalf. I have had masses said on behalf of several deceased family members of mine.

Edited for further clarification The souls in purgatory **are not ghosts **they souls who are in need of spiritual purification. My prayer is that when I die I would be worthy enough to be in purgatory for at least that means that I am not one of the damned in hell.

Peace

 

[johnstown_johnn]

The Church doesn’t teach this surely?

Can’t say yes or no. But in the many spiritual treatises I have read (all Catholic THEORIES) from Catholic authors there seems to be a kind of vacuum in some cases. It could be some kind of form of Purgatory. But it is speculation. It is NOT dogma. To imagine that such a “vacuum” might exist is not a threat to Faith. As long as it is just speculative and it does exhort one to prayer for those that have gone on before us. There are still many mysteries to the afterlife.

Near death experiences are not tossed aside as having no validity. Many good Catholic people have “returned” from being pronounced “dead” albeit not too very long in the apparent “state of death.” Where the Church stands on “Near Death” accountings I am at a loss. But I may try to “Google” and search. It is a fascinating thing to explore. Death has more wonders than life…or so it seems.

Church does not concretely say there is no spirit world. It (Church) tells us to stay away from seances and other deliberate probings into the spiritual realms…only that in prayer do we attempt communication.

The Apostle’s Creed confirms that prayer is an instrument of communication.

I hope I didn’t suggest we are able to contact friends or relatives that have gone to the great beyond…I think I discourage that…at least I hope I did. I never personally believed that contact was open to the netherworld. Only through prayer as the Creed states.

 

[MSParrott]

The sad thing, as far as this guy goes, is he “preys” upon the poor people who are desperately searching for answers that their loved ones are okay. I know this from experience, as when my BIL died, my sister was frantic that he was going to be okay and we both made the TERRIBLE MISTAKE of reading one of his books. :doh2: (FWIW, he really seems like he is grasping at straws.)

Thankfully this fascination didn’t last that long and I found my way back Home (with the Church!)

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi PJR,

re-

I don’t want to upset my friend, but her daughter may come home and report that I told her it was a sin.

Certainly contacting mediums is harmful, but I would clarify the use of the word “sin” One priest told me that the degree of culpability on the part of the person visiting mediums depends upon the knowledge and moral dispositions of the person. Also the concept of sin is different for a non-Catholic.

From scripture–

Deu 18:9-14-Detestable Practices
9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God.

Have you ever showed her 1Sam28?

15 Samuel then said to Saul, “Why do you disturb me by conjuring me up?”

And look what happened to Saul.

Chap 31
1
As they pressed their attack on Israel, with the Israelites fleeing before them and falling mortally wounded on Mount Gilboa,
2
the Philistines pursued Saul and his sons closely, and slew Jonathan, Abinadab, and Malchishua, sons of Saul.
3
The battle raged around Saul, and the archers hit him; he was pierced through the abdomen.
4
Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword and run me through, lest these uncircumcised come and make sport of me.” But his armor-bearer, badly frightened, refused to do it. So Saul took his own sword and fell upon it.

Lux

 

[wcknight]

Some saints or near saints have been contacted by the dead. They are almost always souls of folks in Purgatory asking for help.

No good Catholic should ever try to contact the dead, that is forbidden. The folks who received contacts from the dead did not initiate that contact.

So far I have met 2 Catholic friends who had relatives who had a near death experience (one was a woman whose son had touched a 25.000 watt/volt line, and the other was a co-worker whose brother had ‘died’ on the operating table.)

 

[Coreopisis]

Some saints or near saints have been contacted by the dead. They are almost always souls of folks in Purgatory asking for help.

No good Catholic should ever try to contact the dead, that is forbidden. The folks who received contacts from the dead did not initiate that contact.

So far I have met 2 Catholic friends who had relatives who had a near death experience (one was a woman whose son had touched a 25.000 watt/volt line, and the other was a co-worker whose brother had ‘died’ on the operating table.)

I read a book about a woman who is up for becoming a saint but I don’t know where they are at with it yet, But she was apparently contacted quite frequently by souls in perguatory asking for her prayers. She said that she learned that our Lady Mary was the one who would either allow or not allow them to go to her and that when they did they were only allowed to ask for prayers, nothing more nothing less. If she would ask a question of htem they would disappear and if Mary allowed it they would come back at a later time with an answer. This woman NEVER asked for the visits they just happened and she doesn’t know why.

This completely rules out the possiblity of this man communicating with dead people because he wouldn’t get instantaneous answers nor would he be able to pick and choose who he could speak to and when. That is not for us to decide.

If he is contacting anyone it isn’t under God’s jurisdiction. I don’t necessarily think he is praying on these persons. He might actually believe he is contacting dead people but he is being decieved. We should pray for this mans eyes to be opened before he does to much damage.

That is my 2 cents.

 

[Jennifer_G]

How can I inform her on the Church teaching regarding trying to contact the dead? She has already told me that it shouldn’t be a problem, after all John Edwards is Catholic. My somewhat joking response was “Well, he won’t be the first Catholic in hell.”

Unless he goes to confession, repents, and turns away from trying to contact the dead.

I am also reading a suggested book titled “The Challenging Counterfeit” It is not a Catholic work, but tells a chilling story of a Spiritualist medium. He considered himself to be a good Christian for years until he realized the control the demonic had on these spirit guides.

Any other suggested resources? PJR

I’m not sure of any resources, but I’ve noticed that many (at least the ones you hear about on Oprah) all say, “Everyone goes to Heaven”. I’ve always wondered if there are more protestants (by ratio) than Catholics who flock to these psychics, since “Everyone goes to Heaven” (their main message) fits in with “Once Saved, Always Saved”, assuming “everyone” means Christians. There was one case of a psychic telling a family of a missing girl that their daughter was dead, when she wasn’t.

Waaaaaaait, you mean it’s not the presidential candidate practicing necromancy? That threw me for a loop… oh, John Edward.

That first threw me for a loop when I first heard it the other way around. That John Edwards, then the politician John Edwards.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

John Edwards has achieved celebrity status and has a TV show. This, in of itself, is a “cage” that he willingly entered into. The only way out for him is prayer and petition.

The format flies in the face of the First Commandment. It is a seance…just begause participants are not holding hands at a table in a darkened room but rather on a TV stage…it is STILL a seance.

There isn’t a scintilla of Catholicism in what he does…it is OUTSIDE of the Church.

STAY AWAY !!!

 

[CB_Catholic]

I have a friend who many years ago converted to Catholicism from a Baptist background. I think she had some trouble with the Doctrine of Purgatory. Then her sister died and she was devastated. She says she had a vision of her sister and her sister looked rather solemn and rather unhappy, but told her she was all right. Sometime later she had another vision of her sister, and her countenance was totally changed, she looked very peaceful and happy. She now believes in Purgatory. This woman did not try to make contact with her sister, but her sister came to her. There were no further visions.

My Grandmother had a vision of her son, my uncle, after his untimely death. It brought her comfort.

Maybe God allows these things to help and comfort us. I have no reason to disbelieve these women, they have always been sensible women. And neither of them tried any form of necromancy. The visions just occured. But had they tried to contact their dead loved ones, I think their visions would have been highly suspect and not of God.

 

[mmm1]

Waaaaaaait, you mean it’s not the presidential candidate practicing necromancy? That threw me for a loop… oh, John Edward.

Here is the Catechism on divination, sorcery, necromancy, and all that fun stuff. That’ll do for the Catholic point of view.

But like LDNCatholic suggests, going after it based on the fact that it’s a total steaming pile is probably going to be more effective. Check out what James Randi has to say: here’s one article.

Actually, John Edwards (the candidate) does have a history of conjuring up the dead. Forgive me, I don’t remember where I heard this, but during the last campaign, I watched a news report that talked about when he was a trial lawyer. I think it was a medical malpractice case involving the death of a very young girl. Atty. Edwards tried to prove it was the doctor’s fault, & he channelled the young victim right in front of the jury to garner sympathy. I think he won tons of $. Pretty sleazy. I’m so sketchy on the details, does anyone remember this?

 

[mommyof4]

I’m pretty sure it doesn’t. You die, you go to heaven, hell, or purgatory. I have heard it said that perhaps ghosts are actually the souls in Purgatory, but don’t know of any official pronouncement on the matter.

A few weeks ago, I asked this question about ghosts in “Ask an apologist” forum.

 

[mmm1]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to go off-topic, but I couldn’t resist sharing that fact about John Edwards.

I don’t have any sources to cite for this post either, but I think souls in purgatory are rarely allowed to contact living people, like Coreopisis mentioned. I think psychics that are really receiving messages are being used by demons. It is so spiritually dangerous, & that’s why it’s forbidden. The rest, like Sylvia Browne, are opening themselves up to evil, but are just exploiting people & acting.

 

[johnstown_johnn]

A few weeks ago, I asked this question about ghosts in “Ask an apologist” forum.

Recall the Gospel passage where Jesus after His resurrection appeared to His disciples in a locked room for fera of the Jews.

The disciples were frightened and Jesus placated them by asking for something to eat; as He ate the offering He said “…{paraphrasing} would a ghost do this (eat)?”

So ghosts were not totally superstitious. After Jesus breathed His last breath on the Cross recall the earthquake and the many “ghosts” that walked Jerusalem?

There very well might be some kind of “spirit world” that has no real power but dwells on the past in some fashion.

Gettysburg, PA, the historical battleground of the War Between the States, has many, many sightings to this very day. Sometimes it is labelled “hauntings.” Some folks often see a line of soldiers marching (both Union and Confederate). There is never “communication” with the living.

You can google “ghosts of gettysburg” and get an eyeful.

I kind of think the images are re-runs that are somehow “frozen” in time by a kind of spiritual energy. I am NOT wedded to any of this lest I venture into a quasi-heresy. But it is curious.

I don’t think it challenges our Faith…it is unexplained phenomenon.