Friend, what does it mean to YOU to: "Believe in the Gospel?"

[Wannano]

A former mentor of mine; Fr. John A Hardon; one of the most respected Theologians of the 20th Century; said this about truth:

“Truth is the condition of grace; it is the source of grace; it is the channel of grace,it is the Divinely ordained requirement of grace.”

Pope Benedict said: “There cannot be your truth and my truth or there would be no truth.”

The position you choose to hold and accept recounts what God COULD have but choose NOT to have. While wildly popular within the ranks of non-Catholic- Christians; it presumes to tell God how He will save you; rather than listen to what His Church; the holder of the Key’s to heavens gate Mt. 16:18-19; has taught from it’s creation by Jesus Himself.

Your position while desirable from a purely humanistic point of view [it is easier and far more simple than what the CC has consistently taught for 2,000 years]; nevertheless . overlooks the very nature of God; and God’s consistent abhorrence to sin,and precisely why he created man in “his own image.” Gen 1:26-27

Space limits here prohibit a detailed account of each of these points; but in summary; it is foolish to presume that God became Incarnate man; suffered inexplicably on our account; and then is “OK” with man simply professing a personal relationship with God as being sufficient satisfaction for all that he has done, all that he has given to us, and all that He entrusted to His Church.

Even a cursory reading of the OT clearly articulates that God is a GOD of expectations

and do what is right before him, and obey his commandments, and keep all his precepts"

Deuteronomy 11:1
Therefore love the Lord thy God and observe his precepts and ceremonies, his judgments and commandments at all times

It was the failure to fulfill this condition of a “personal relationship” with God that time and time again to cause God to permit subjection, and merit numerous reprisals for their NOT doing ALL that He demanded.

God is Perfect and expects that we too be perfect and return perfect love for the Perfect Love He has shown for us: Mt 5: 48 “.Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect” To presume that God COULD be satisfied so easily [that presumption denies the very Nature of God’s Justice and sense of fairness]
is a human invention of the 16th-17th Century.

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me
Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.** Luke.14: 7** Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple

WHY? Why is this?

It is because in God’s DESIGNED creation of man, in His “self-image” was to enable man to PROVE his fidelity and love for God; time and time again. Which in all of the entire created Universe; ONLY man is enabled to do.

It is highly significant that Christ Church did not waver; did not rethink, did not weaken Her Teachings in the onslaught of Reformations teachings; each and every one of which was made intentionally easier, simpler; less demanding than Catholicisms teachings.

Here’s the surest evidence:

There is but One True God [the 1st Commandment]

Just a Yahweh had just One set of faith beliefs; so do DOES Jesus [even God cannot hold differing; even contradictory views on the same defined issues:shrug:

Just a Yahweh had one chosen people **Exo. 6:7

; so to Christ has just one chosen people which He calls “MY CHURCH” [singular] **Mt 16:18-19 **

God being Good; Just; Fair and consistent in an absolute sense could NOT have waited over 1,000 years AFTER His Resurrection to introduce His one set of Faith beliefs. IMPOSSIBLE.

Nor can God Make your salvation possible on a different set of rules and conditions than He does for me. That too defies God’s very Nature.

No my friend; what you believe is not biblical when using the entire Bible.

God Bless you,
Patrick

Luke 18:9-14: "Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I posess.’ And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

The Word of the Lord…thanks be to God!

I

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by eazyduzit View Post

In Salvation, I believe that Jesus has done everything needed to justify me with God’s requirements for righteousness so that I am perfectly qualified for heaven. I can rest in His work. You remember that man was created on the seventh day, the day of rest. There was nothing further that Adam needed to accomplish. Creation was not less than perfect and complete. Adam did not need to work for his daily needs or food. In the same way, God’s salvation is not less than perfect and complete. We do not need to work to add anything to it. We must strive to enter into God’s rest as in Heb.4. and not fall short of it as the Hebrews did in the wilderness

.

THE TREPLY

I don’t know what is it but this is wrong. Sadly wrong. I think this is way too dangerous a doctrine that could lead to one’s downfall.

For starter, Adam definitely needed to work for his daily needs of food. … even if it was to pluck the grain or to pick an apple. If he didn’t even as to lift a hand, he would certainly go hungry. I wouldn’t know what happen if he would persist in his stubbornness … Would he become under nourished and what would happen thereafter … but he truly had to do some work for his upkeep and to eat.

My insert:

Dear friend eazyduzit;

IN order for your chosen position to actually be true; God would have to STOP being GOD

What your advocating is not only only a recent development [16th Century]; but it denies both God’s absolute need to be both Just & Fair. Further it also denies why Christ made US[humanity] in His Image Gen. 1:26-27

Consider prayerfully these points:

[1] God cannot [literally] judge you on a different basis; a different set of mandatory conditions than he does me [Catholicism vs Protestantism], I’m NOT being personally judgmental here.

[2] In the BILLIONS of things i God’s created universe; only ONE; only man can freely choose to love God or hate God; to freely choose good, or to freely choose evil.

[3] Does not GOD have the right to say; to command his Created to merit salvation in the manner He GOD chooses for humanity? [referencing here the Key’s to heaven s gate; [Mr 16: 18-19] the primacy of Peter; [Jn 21:15-17] the absolute need to follow their teachings[Mt. 28:18-20] ; then the SEVEN Sacraments each instituted by Jesus:
Baptism, Eucharist, Confession, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, & the Last Rites

[4] It is impossible that GOD would [or for that matter COULD-HAVE] waited more than 1,000 YEARS after his Resurrection for Wycliffe, Luther, Calvin and the rest to introduce HIS also absolutely necessary ONE set of Faith briefs. The key word here is IMPOSSIBLE!

[5] Please give just 1 example from the Bible where GOD allowed, permitted, tolerated, accepted; or ignored ANY competing faith beliefs,My friend; it does not exist; and what ought that tell you.

May God grant you many Blessings:thumbsup:

Patrick

 

[PJM]

I am not convinced with people who quoted JOHN 3:16 to summarise the Gospel though I am only too glad to be convinced. At first glance that looks pretty cool, after all it is a biblical verse, but that is as much as it goes. Believe? Trust in God’s promise?

Believe in what? Which promises?

To what extend do we believe? Do we believe that Jesus has to spit on the mud and put it on one’s eyes to be healed or that Jesus merely heals and that he does not have to do the mud part?

John 3:16 is more than just a nutshell. It probably is more detailed and specific, the contents which are often being missed out by those pedalling this verse.

Nicely done, thanks!

Patrick

 

[PJM]

John 3:16 is the GOSPEL in a nutshell. For God so loved the world that He (G)ave His(O)nly (S)on that whosoever would believe on Him would not (P)erish, but have (E)ternal (L)ife.

One receives salvation by trusting in God’s promise. Trust is the action of faith. This is what faithful Abraham did, even though he never saw the final result of God’s promise.

My dear friend in Christ,

I hope [and pray] your able to handle a candid discussion on Salvation:

My insert:

Dear friend eazyduzit;

IN order for your chosen position to actually be true; God would have to STOP being GOD

What your advocating is not only only a recent development [16th Century]; but it denies both God’s absolute need to be both Just & Fair. Further it also denies why Christ made US[humanity] in His Image Gen. 1:26-27

Consider prayerfully these points:

[1] God cannot [literally] judge you on a different basis; a different set of mandatory conditions than he does me [Catholicism vs Protestantism], I’m NOT being personally judgmental here.

[2] In the BILLIONS of things i God’s created universe; only ONE; only man can freely choose to love God or hate God; to freely choose good, or to freely choose evil.

[3] Does not GOD have the right to say; to command his Created to merit salvation in the manner He GOD chooses for humanity? [referencing here the Key’s to heaven s gate; [Mr 16: 18-19] the primacy of Peter; [Jn 21:15-17] the absolute need to follow their teachings[Mt. 28:18-20] ; then the SEVEN Sacraments each instituted by Jesus:
Baptism, Eucharist, Confession, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, & the Last Rites

[4] It is impossible that GOD would [or for that matter COULD-HAVE] waited more than 1,000 YEARS after his Resurrection for Wycliffe, Luther, Calvin and the rest to introduce HIS also absolutely necessary ONE set of Faith briefs. The key word here is IMPOSSIBLE!

[5] Please give just 1 example from the Bible where GOD allowed, permitted, tolerated, accepted; or ignored ANY competing faith beliefs,My friend; it does not exist; and what ought that tell you .

May God grant you many Blessings

Patrick

---

Irish2: PJM

 

[Wannano]

My dear friend in Christ,

I hope [and pray] your able to handle a candid discussion on Salvation:

My insert:

Dear friend eazyduzit;

IN order for your chosen position to actually be true; God would have to STOP being GOD

What your advocating is not only only a recent development [16th Century]; but it denies both God’s absolute need to be both Just & Fair. Further it also denies why Christ made US[humanity] in His Image Gen. 1:26-27

Consider prayerfully these points:

[1] God cannot [literally] judge you on a different basis; a different set of mandatory conditions than he does me [Catholicism vs Protestantism], I’m NOT being personally judgmental here.

[2] In the BILLIONS of things i God’s created universe; only ONE; only man can freely choose to love God or hate God; to freely choose good, or to freely choose evil.

[3] Does not GOD have the right to say; to command his Created to merit salvation in the manner He GOD chooses for humanity? [referencing here the Key’s to heaven s gate; [Mr 16: 18-19] the primacy of Peter; [Jn 21:15-17] the absolute need to follow their teachings[Mt. 28:18-20] ; then the SEVEN Sacraments each instituted by Jesus:
Baptism, Eucharist, Confession, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, & the Last Rites

[4] It is impossible that GOD would [or for that matter COULD-HAVE] waited more than 1,000 YEARS after his Resurrection for Wycliffe, Luther, Calvin and the rest to introduce HIS also absolutely necessary ONE set of Faith briefs. The key word here is IMPOSSIBLE!

[5] Please give just 1 example from the Bible where GOD allowed, permitted, tolerated, accepted; or ignored ANY competing faith beliefs,My friend; it does not exist; and what ought that tell you .

May God grant you many Blessings

Patrick

---

Irish2: PJM

I am hoping eazyduzit continues his dialogue, in the meantime in relation to #5, I would suggest that all the verses relating to the Last Supper or Eucharist find Jesus Himself saying,“This is my blood of the NEW COVENANT.” Is Roman Catholicism the same as Judaism?

 

[PJM]

I am hoping eazyduzit continues his dialogue, in the meantime in relation to #5, I would suggest that all the verses relating to the Last Supper or Eucharist find Jesus Himself saying,“This is my blood of the NEW COVENANT.” Is Roman Catholicism the same as Judaism?

No, BUT a GREAT question.

Our root is in Judaism; but there was a major Schism brought about by Jesus who came to complete, to fulfill and to perfect the Old testament.

Mt 10> 1-8
"And having called his twelve disciples together, he gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of diseases, and all manner of infirmities.

And the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: **Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not.But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. **Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely have you received, freely give"

The just before His Ascension Jesus revokes and replaces that MANDATE

Mt. 28: 19-20 "Going therefore, teach YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world".

So it WAS the original intent of God through Jesus to continue with only His “Chosen People” Exodus 6:7; BUT because so many denied Him; Denied God, Jesus choose to extend salvation to the “entire world.”

So just as Christianities roots are connected and entwined with Catholicism;so to is Catholicism with the Hebrew nation, through Abraham as a common Father; and the historical aspects of the Old Testament; a testimony that points to the coming of Jesus as thee Messiah.

.Thank you so much for asking,

Patrick

 

[TonyBS]

No, BUT a GREAT question.

Our root is in Judaism; but there was a major Schism brought about by Jesus who came to complete, to fulfill and to perfect the Old testament.

Mt 10> 1-8
"And having called his twelve disciples together, he gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of diseases, and all manner of infirmities.

And the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: **Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not.But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. **Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely have you received, freely give"

The just before His Ascension Jesus revokes and replaces that MANDATE

Mt. 28: 19-20 "Going therefore, teach YOU all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded YOU: and behold I am with YOU all days, even to the consummation of the world".

So it WAS the original intent of God through Jesus to continue with only His “Chosen People” Exodus 6:7; BUT because so many denied Him; Denied God, Jesus choose to extend salvation to the “entire world.”

So just as Christianities roots are connected and entwined with Catholicism;so to is Catholicism with the Hebrew nation, through Abraham as a common Father; and the historical aspects of the Old Testament; a testimony that points to the coming of Jesus as thee Messiah.

.Thank you so much for asking,

Patrick

Patrick. This is what it means to me to believe in the Gospel, that is Gods Covenant with Man.

You have said “Jesus who came to complete, to fulfill and to perfect the Old testament”.

To a Muslim this carried over through Muhammad.

To a Baha’i this carried on through the Bab and Baha’u’llah and to us is all scriptural.

The Perfection, Beauty and fullness of Christ is always what we must explore in this Life and most importantly why we are doing it, serve all humanity.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

What does it mean to believe in the Gospel. To me it means to understand the world we are living in and all that happens is a direct result of our inability to understand and live to the Word contained within.

A good question to ponder is if the Jews were scattered among the Nations for 2000 years for rejecting Christ who’s message lasted 3 years on this earth, why is it now that the Muslims are being scattered? It has been foretold.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[PJM]

Patrick. This is what it means to me to believe in the Gospel, that is Gods Covenant with Man.

You have said “Jesus who came to complete, to fulfill and to perfect the Old testament”.

To a Muslim this carried over through Muhammad.

To a Baha’i this carried on through the Bab and Baha’u’llah and to us is all scriptural.

The Perfection, Beauty and fullness of Christ is always what we must explore in this Life and most importantly why we are doing it, serve all humanity.

God Bless and Regards Tony

Thank you Tony