"Friendly" churches and swan songs

[Tommy999]

I think it’s a cultural thing in the Catholic church. People generally feel that we are single minded when we go.
To visit the shepherd, not the sheep, to quote a recent thread.
Also, many Catholics believe that worship is extremely personal, and don’t really relish the hand grasping and hugging. We see threads about it ALL the time. It’s a real problem for parish stewardship committees.
The people who market “stewardship” will tell you that if you don’t offer a huge welcome banner people won’t come.
I believe that most Catholics come for Liturgy, for Eucharist, and to fulfill their Sunday obligation. To more or less varying degrees, based on their own personal disposition.
For as many people that I am welcoming to, I get cold stares back from some, who just don’t require it. Hard to know where one begins and the other ends.
The Catholic church survives due to her Truths, her incredible history from Christ Himself…and the Eucharist. The need for membership and money is secondary. And many old school Catholics think that these gestures are more connected to the collection plate. Sad really. I imagine Christ would welcome us in person, with a hug.
But people are so disconnected these days, in so many ways. Look at us? We’re all friends, but we are only connected through Wi-Fi. But hopefully, we have one shared passion: Jesus Christ. And he loves us whether or not we can give a hearty handshake or not.
Think of the priests who say daily Mass for a handful of people. If they know each other it’s grand, but it’s not necessary for the validity of the Mass. They know that they all love Jesus, no?
Peace, Tommy…always a great discussion.

Thanks for the added context, Clare. Perhaps it is just a cultural difference like you mentioned, and I trust your judgment as someone who deals with these issues on a regular basis at your parish.

I wholeheartedly agree that that top priority and focus of the Mass should be Jesus Christ.

Friendliness (or lack thereof) should be a secondary concern. However, the two things need not be mutually exclusive, in my view, even if some people are suspicious of the motives behind it.

It is human nature to react more favorably to a genuine and sincere greeting by a friendly congregant than by nothing at all. No greeting or acknowledgement from anyone can make some people, especially visitors, feel invisible, even if they are surrounded by other people. To some it is no big deal. To others, it is a big deal.

For example, when I went to college, I went to get an education. That was my primary focus. I traveled over 900 miles to go to college but I didn’t know a soul when I arrived, so I was a bit apprehensive. I would later meet my future wife there a few weeks later.

However, when I arrived, was it the university’s responsibility to provide me a warm welcome? Absolutely not. That wasn’t why I went there. I went there to receive an education.

However, I appreciated the warm greeting I received from an upperclassman upon arrival, who later turned out to be a good friend. It helped set the tone for a good career at school and made me feel more at ease in an otherwise awkward situation. It helped put me in a better frame of mind to learn. He also helped me network with others that he knew who were in the same field as mine.

The same principle applies at church, in my opinion and is summarized by I John 4:7-8.

 

[pianistclare]

Thanks for the added context, Clare. Perhaps it is just a cultural difference like you mentioned, and I trust your judgment as someone who deals with these issues on a regular basis at your parish.

I wholeheartedly agree that that top priority and focus of the Mass should be Jesus Christ.

Friendliness (or lack thereof) should be a secondary concern. However, the two things need not be mutually exclusive, in my view, even if some people are suspicious of the motives behind it.

It is human nature to react more favorably to a genuine and sincere greeting by a friendly congregant than by nothing at all. No greeting or acknowledgement from anyone can make some people, especially visitors, feel invisible, even if they are surrounded by other people. To some it is no big deal. To others, it is a big deal.

For example, when I went to college, I went to get an education. That was my primary focus. I traveled over 900 miles to go to college but I didn’t know a soul when I arrived, so I was a bit apprehensive. I would later meet my future wife there a few weeks later.

However, when I arrived, was it a requirement for me to receive a warm welcome? Absolutely not. That wasn’t why I went there. I went there to receive an education.

However, I appreciated the warm greeting I received from an upperclassman upon arrival, who later turned out to be a good friend. It helped set the tone for a good career at school and made me feel more at ease in an otherwise awkward situation. It helped put me in a better frame of mind to learn. He also helped me network with others that he knew who were in the same field as mine who offered good counsel.

The same principle applies at church, in my opinion and is summarized by I John 4:7-8.
Just my opinion.

Thanks, excellent points. Love that college story, btw.
I think part of the problem with the feeling of unfriendliness in the Catholic church is that many other faiths view us a kind of weird, judgmental, and only interested in perfection. That adds an element that can complicate the “friendly” perception. We see it a lot on the boards. People will say “I want to attend Mass, but what if it’s obvious I don’t know what to do? What if people stare? What happens if I do something wrong?” Like there’s going to repercussions for visitors that don’t measure up. There’s a fearful element about visiting a Catholic Church that perhaps is not there with other denoms. Actually, a lot of Cradle Catholics are not real clear on the Mass parts either!
It’s kind of sad. We don’t bite. Honest. Only on the boards. HA!
Thanks again Tommy.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I think church hopping happens more often in protestant denominations.

We are all on our own individual spiritual journey.
We want to feel comfortable where we worship.
Maybe location has something to do with wanting to change.

I don’t judge anyone. We are all looking for a place to belong or to be with people we can connect with.

 

[Cat]

“Friendliness” has never been a criterion for me. I am interested in the Mass and sacraments being celebrated properly at a parish. Personally, I receive all the love and affirmation I need from Christ in the Holy Eucharist and don’t seek anything more at Mass from the people in the pews. Although I eventually make friends at church, I don’t join for that reason. I notice my parish “friends” are the ones who also joined the parish to participate fully in the sacramental life of the Church and who are less interested in the social aspects of parish life. I tend to make friends through work and clubs, but I join a parish to be with the Shepherd, not with the sheep.

The problem is, this is not the Church described in the New Testament.

In the Acts of the Apostles, we read about incredible fellowship in the Church, to the point where they had sold all their possessions and had all things in common. This kind of trust requires a deep and loving friendship. I certainly wouldn’t sell all my possessions and share all with others that I didn’t even know.

Throughout the New Testament, St. Paul and the other writers describe church fellowship that is loving beyond mere friendliness. People help each other, give to each other, sing with each other, and work together to advance the Kingdom of God.

The Epistle to the Ephesians describes what our “body life” should look like–not our fitness schedule, but our actual life in the parish. The 4th chapter is especially good, because it discusses spiritual gifts, and how we have all been gifted by the Holy Spirit with a gift that we are to use for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ.

There are several other passages in the New Testament (Romans 12, I Corinthians 14, I Peter 4) describing other spiritual gifts (these are not the same as the gifts of the Spirit that all Catholics have–those are virtues, not “skills.”). These practical spiritual gifts are to be used to build up the body of Christ (the Church).

We can’t build up the body of Christ by coming to Mass once a week or once a day, and having all our friends through work and clubs outside of the parish, unless we are gifted with evangelism and we continually bring our non-Christian and non-Catholic friends INTO the Church. (There are people who actually do this, so I’m not being sarcastic.)

To build up the body of Christ, we actually have to physically BE IN the body of Christ. The hand can’t stay away from the rest of the body, and neither can the nose, the toe, the pancreas, etc. We are PART of the body and we need to be doing our job, whatever it is, in that body and for that body.

St. Peter has a wonderful admonition to all Christians: “Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.” Our first pope was not talking to married couples or families in this verse, he was talking to the CHURCH. (Read it in context.)

Love of this type does not have to be gushy-mushy, hug-your-neck-bless-your-heart, exuberant talkativeness, etc. But it has to be real ACTIONS, not just vague expressions. Christians can’t get away with saying, “Of COURSE I love my fellow parishioners–I sit with them every week.” That’s not love. The sinners do that and more.

Finally, Jesus made it very clear that the world will know we are Christians and see HIM in us not because of our correct doctrine and liturgy, but because of our LOVE for one another. In the Early Church, one of the things that amazed the Romans and attracted many of them to Christianity was the fervency of the Church in burying the dead. That’s a very practical action, not a mushy feeling or “entertainment.”

Jesus Himself said it, not me–we need to love one another if we want to advance the Kingdom of God. We can’t just be “Me and Jesus” Christians. It has to be “We and Jesus.”

 

[Cara_Serrano]

I stand by my statement because in addition to going to daily Mass and tithing my income to the Church, I “build up my church” by volunteering hundreds of hours in our Catholic hospital, lectoring at Mass, leading a weekly prayer group, making and donating clothing to our homeless, and sponsoring a seminarian and a FOCUS missionary. I believe I am fulfilling your quote from St Peter to “keep fervent your love for one another” through these charitable actions. However, my post said I was not interested in “social” activities, not charitable ones. I serve the church based on charity and the works of mercy as Christ commanded, not because I need new friends.

If I based my parish membership on friendliness, I would have become a Protestant a long time ago, because frankly they are more friendly. But the Protestant churches lack the essence of what fuels my ability to serve my neighbor charitably, which is Christ in the Eucharist. If the sacramental life of a parish is not healthy, not valid, not In keeping with the Magisterium, then I would definitely change parishes, no matter how friendly the people were. I have seen parishes go downhill spiritually, sacramentally and people would not leave because all their friends were there! Again, friendship will never be my criterion for choosing a parish. I hope you will allow me my opinion.

 

[Cat]

I stand by my statement because in addition to going to daily Mass and tithing my income to the Church, I “build up my church” by volunteering hundreds of hours in our Catholic hospital, lectoring at Mass, leading a weekly prayer group, making and donating clothing to our homeless, and sponsoring a seminarian and a FOCUS missionary. I believe I am fulfilling your quote from St Peter to “keep fervent your love for one another” through these charitable actions. However, my post said I was not interested in “social” activities, not charitable ones. I serve the church based on charity and the works of mercy as Christ commanded, not because I need new friends.

If I based my parish membership on friendliness, I would have become a Protestant a long time ago, because frankly they are more friendly. But the Protestant churches lack the essence of what fuels my ability to serve my neighbor charitably, which is Christ in the Eucharist. If the sacramental life of a parish is not healthy, not valid, not In keeping with the Magisterium, then I would definitely change parishes, no matter how friendly the people were. I have seen parishes go downhill spiritually, sacramentally and people would not leave because all their friends were there! Again, friendship will never be my criterion for choosing a parish. I hope you will allow me my opinion.

Of course I honor your opinion! (I don’t have the option of “allowing” it.)

I agree that you are definitely building up the Church. You are doing it from the outside in rather than from the inside out.

I was Evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of my life before converting to Catholicism. Protestants DO have Jesus, although He is not Present in the Eucharist. They have Him in their hearts.

I don’t see any conflict between serving the Church out of charity and obedience to Christ, and seeking friends in the Church. Why not both in our parishes? Just because someone is seeking friends for social reasons doesn’t mean that this person is disobeying Jesus.

There are many people who would have a hard time getting involved with a charitable outreach or even worshipping God if they were not side-by-side with friends, or at least with “friendly” people. Friendliness doesn’t mean hugging necks or chit-chatting about the game. Friendliness is brotherly love and care for each other, and there is no conflict between this and service to others. In fact, service to others without friendliness is likely to be counterproductive to both the server and the served.

 

[pianistclare]

I guess I just don’t “get” this whole notion.
I’ve belonged to parishes in my life that were pretty blah. Others act like they are some sort of country club and you’re lucky they let you in.
Others have run up and hugged me and kissed me every time they saw me.
But every Catholic Church I’ve been to or worked in has had the same vital element. The Holy Eucharist. And I felt welcome, loved, and that I belonged because I am Catholic. My faith is not dependent on what others think of me. Seems like sometimes we are never satisfied. First we demand a relationship with God, then we demand that people acknowledge us with the warm and fuzzies. Like the above poster I’m REALLY involved. I don’t need others to verify that I’m working in the vineyard. I am, I’m content.
At some point we have to be mature about our faith. There are things to be taken seriously, and there are things that are less important. But we get all worked up, don’t we?
I know little old ladies at church that wig out if the priest doesn’t fawn over them after Mass. It speaks more to their feelings of loneliness than whether or not he’s caring or a good priest. The busier we make our lives the more demands we put on our faith. It now has to fill the void of friends, family, or any dissatisfaction.
Cat’s points are well taken.
But if we are to be honest, why are we Catholic? Because of the truth, or because it fits our lifestyle? Something to think about.
People love to hear tv gurus speaking about taking time for oneself…making a retreat to a spa, putting everyone else second and being true to oneself. All of this only serves to make us more solitary people by choice, and then we turn to the church to fix it.
Indeed, the church CAN I suppose, when you get involved as Cat says. But when most Catholics go to Church, they are going to MASS. The other stuff is outside of Mass activity. Not to get together to socialize and to feed that aspect of their lives. Indeed. during the week? Almost no one comes around. And there’s plenty of work to do, plenty of people that need a helping hand, a shoulder to cry on, a meal delivered to them. But no one shows up.
In Mass we go to feed our souls. If we don’t, we’re kind of missing the Passion in a very real way. People forget that for Catholics, the Mass is formal worship. Formal in that it is set. There’s a thread going right now where some soul has said “we do the same thing every week!” Yup. thanks be to God. It’s set up to function well, faithfully solid, and so that every person that goes can know exactly what they’re going to get. They’re going to be with their fellow sons and daughters of Christ, they’re going to profess their faith publically and as church, they’re going to be absolved of their venial sins, they’re going to hear the Word, they’re going to sing together, they’re going to have a lesson from a guy who attended many years of seminary, and they are going to partake of the Lamb of God, personally, body, blood, soul, and divinity. Plus a personal blessing at the end to get us through the week.
And we’re complaining because someone at the door didn’t smile big to us? Or it’s not entertaining enough?
C’mon.

God bless everyone on this thread. I’m a DRE, so I tend to sound preachy.
Please forgive me if I offend.

 

[Cat]

I think that some people on this thread have the wrong notion of “friendly.”

So I’ll give some examples of friendliness “Evangelical Protestant” style that I hope will help.

My husband and I started attending a Christian and Missionary Alliance Church a few months before our first daughter was born. We knew only one person in this church (one of my husband’s co-workers). We lived in Raleigh, a thousand miles away from our families.

Within a few weeks, we joined the choir and when it became known that I played piano, I was approached about playing for the evening worship services. (Of course I said yes.)

A few weeks before our baby was born, one of the older ladies in the church called me and asked if she could host a baby shower for me. Of course I said yes! The shower was lovely–elegant, fun, and I received at least $500 worth of baby gifts.

The day I brought the baby home, a group of about a dozen church members was at our apartment to greet me and drop off casseroles and snacks.

Remember, these people didn’t know us at all.

We remained in that church for the next ten years, and I can honestly testify that this kind of “action love” was manifested throughout the church through all of those ten years.

The ladies had an organized “food committee” who brought meals to people who were home from the hospital or grieving or just having a hard time with life.

Many of us had babies around the same time (17 were born within a few months of my baby!), and we all got together regularly for socializing, baby play, etc. I didn’t hesitate to ask these people to watch my babies if I had to be somewhere, and they brought their babies to me.

When my husband and I let the church know that we would be attending the March for Life in 1987, a woman in the church who barely knew us pressed a hundred dollars into our hands. Thank goodness–it was the year of the Big Blizzard, and we ended up staying in D.C. for four days, and that money was needed!

These types of “love actions” were the daily NORM in that church. Sure the people smiled and hugged and chatted, but they often followed that up with, “Would you like to come over for lunch?” or “I’m having a play date at my house, would your daughters like to come?” or “Hey, the fellas are all watching the Tar Heels game at Dave’s house, would you like to come?”

During the time we were in that church, the membership doubled several times, and most people who came did so because of the friendliness of the people.

It wasn’t fake. We still keep up with some of those people. My girls are grown now, and still remember the kindness and love that infiltrated all aspects of that church, even though they were just small girls when we moved back up North.

To Protestants, Jesus is omnipresent. It is through His PEOPLE that they actually “see” Jesus, unlike the Catholics who see Him in the Eucharist.

And it isn’t a fake gooey friendliness, it’s JESUS CHRIST using those Protestants as His arms, legs, hands, feet, mouth, eyes, and ears.

Why shouldn’t Catholics manifest Jesus Christ in THEIR lives as well before, during, and after Mass? After all, just because Jesus is Truly Present in the Eucharist doesn’t mean that He isn’t present in Catholic Christians, too. We should be able to “see” Jesus in our fellow parishioners, just as we were able to “see” Him in the lives of those C&MA church members for ten glorious years.

 

[BelieveIt]

As I wrote in a previous post, some reasons for leaving go far beyond smiles at the door. Why does it matter to anyone that a person decides to leave a place of worship for another one? That’s what I don’t get.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I think that some people on this thread have the wrong notion of “friendly.”

So I’ll give some examples of friendliness “Evangelical Protestant” style that I hope will help.

My husband and I started attending a Christian and Missionary Alliance Church a few months before our first daughter was born. We knew only one person in this church (one of my husband’s co-workers). We lived in Raleigh, a thousand miles away from our families.

Within a few weeks, we joined the choir and when it became known that I played piano, I was approached about playing for the evening worship services. (Of course I said yes.)

A few weeks before our baby was born, one of the older ladies in the church called me and asked if she could host a baby shower for me. Of course I said yes! The shower was lovely–elegant, fun, and I received at least $500 worth of baby gifts.

The day I brought the baby home, a group of about a dozen church members was at our apartment to greet me and drop off casseroles and snacks.

Remember, these people didn’t know us at all.

We remained in that church for the next ten years, and I can honestly testify that this kind of “action love” was manifested throughout the church through all of those ten years.

The ladies had an organized “food committee” who brought meals to people who were home from the hospital or grieving or just having a hard time with life.

Many of us had babies around the same time (17 were born within a few months of my baby!), and we all got together regularly for socializing, baby play, etc. I didn’t hesitate to ask these people to watch my babies if I had to be somewhere, and they brought their babies to me.

When my husband and I let the church know that we would be attending the March for Life in 1987, a woman in the church who barely knew us pressed a hundred dollars into our hands. Thank goodness–it was the year of the Big Blizzard, and we ended up staying in D.C. for four days, and that money was needed!

These types of “love actions” were the daily NORM in that church. Sure the people smiled and hugged and chatted, but they often followed that up with, “Would you like to come over for lunch?” or “I’m having a play date at my house, would your daughters like to come?” or “Hey, the fellas are all watching the Tar Heels game at Dave’s house, would you like to come?”

During the time we were in that church, the membership doubled several times, and most people who came did so because of the friendliness of the people.

It wasn’t fake. We still keep up with some of those people. My girls are grown now, and still remember the kindness and love that infiltrated all aspects of that church, even though they were just small girls when we moved back up North.

To Protestants, Jesus is omnipresent. It is through His PEOPLE that they actually “see” Jesus, unlike the Catholics who see Him in the Eucharist.

And it isn’t a fake gooey friendliness, it’s JESUS CHRIST using those Protestants as His arms, legs, hands, feet, mouth, eyes, and ears.

Why shouldn’t Catholics manifest Jesus Christ in THEIR lives as well before, during, and after Mass? After all, just because Jesus is Truly Present in the Eucharist doesn’t mean that He isn’t present in Catholic Christians, too. We should be able to “see” Jesus in our fellow parishioners, just as we were able to “see” Him in the lives of those C&MA church members for ten glorious years.

Cat, first, let me say that your post is REALLY convicting. As a former Protestant, I saw a lot of those things in my church when I was growing up.

Second, as Paul Harvey used to say, “…the rest of the story.” Why are you Catholic?

 

[pianistclare]

I think that some people on this thread have the wrong notion of “friendly.”

So I’ll give some examples of friendliness “Evangelical Protestant” style that I hope will help.

My husband and I started attending a Christian and Missionary Alliance Church a few months before our first daughter was born. We knew only one person in this church (one of my husband’s co-workers). We lived in Raleigh, a thousand miles away from our families.

Within a few weeks, we joined the choir and when it became known that I played piano, I was approached about playing for the evening worship services. (Of course I said yes.)

A few weeks before our baby was born, one of the older ladies in the church called me and asked if she could host a baby shower for me. Of course I said yes! The shower was lovely–elegant, fun, and I received at least $500 worth of baby gifts.

The day I brought the baby home, a group of about a dozen church members was at our apartment to greet me and drop off casseroles and snacks.

Remember, these people didn’t know us at all.

We remained in that church for the next ten years, and I can honestly testify that this kind of “action love” was manifested throughout the church through all of those ten years.

The ladies had an organized “food committee” who brought meals to people who were home from the hospital or grieving or just having a hard time with life.

Many of us had babies around the same time (17 were born within a few months of my baby!), and we all got together regularly for socializing, baby play, etc. I didn’t hesitate to ask these people to watch my babies if I had to be somewhere, and they brought their babies to me.

When my husband and I let the church know that we would be attending the March for Life in 1987, a woman in the church who barely knew us pressed a hundred dollars into our hands. Thank goodness–it was the year of the Big Blizzard, and we ended up staying in D.C. for four days, and that money was needed!

These types of “love actions” were the daily NORM in that church. Sure the people smiled and hugged and chatted, but they often followed that up with, “Would you like to come over for lunch?” or “I’m having a play date at my house, would your daughters like to come?” or “Hey, the fellas are all watching the Tar Heels game at Dave’s house, would you like to come?”

During the time we were in that church, the membership doubled several times, and most people who came did so because of the friendliness of the people.

It wasn’t fake. We still keep up with some of those people. My girls are grown now, and still remember the kindness and love that infiltrated all aspects of that church, even though they were just small girls when we moved back up North.

To Protestants, Jesus is omnipresent. It is through His PEOPLE that they actually “see” Jesus, unlike the Catholics who see Him in the Eucharist.

And it isn’t a fake gooey friendliness, it’s JESUS CHRIST using those Protestants as His arms, legs, hands, feet, mouth, eyes, and ears.

Why shouldn’t Catholics manifest Jesus Christ in THEIR lives as well before, during, and after Mass? After all, just because Jesus is Truly Present in the Eucharist doesn’t mean that He isn’t present in Catholic Christians, too. We should be able to “see” Jesus in our fellow parishioners, just as we were able to “see” Him in the lives of those C&MA church members for ten glorious years.

Why do people assume that we don’t? By the force of our handshake?

 

[Randy_Carson]

pianistclare:
Why do people assume that we don’t? By the force of our handshake?

Clare-

I’m as staunchly Catholic as they come, but if you’re a cradle, and you’ve never experienced the fellowship of a fired-up Evangelical Protestant Church, trust me…what Cat is saying is for real.

 

[Theo520]

Why do people assume that we don’t? By the force of our handshake?

Cat expressed a deep sense of community, not a shallow veneer of ‘friendliness’.

Having strong support can be a big aid is walking with Christ.

 

[pianistclare]

Cat expressed a deep sense of community, not a shallow veneer of ‘friendliness’.

Having strong support can be a big aid is walking with Christ.

Agreed. But if you want to be the force that brings the group together, I know any priests who would discourage it.

Get in the “kitchen” and start cookin! that’s all I’m saying .
There’s plenty of support. Come on down!

 

[Randy_Carson]

Agreed. But if you want to be the force that brings the group together, I know any priests who would discourage it.

Get in the “kitchen” and start cookin! that’s all I’m saying .
There’s plenty of support. Come on down!

This is dead-on, and I often wonder what our parishes were like if so many good people with gifts and talents had not been siphoned off.

I have a theory. Paul speaks of the God’s mercy toward the Gentiles creating jealousy (good kind) among the Jews. I sometimes wonder if the success of Protestantism is being allowed for a time to create jealousy among Catholics who may have grown complacent.

Make sense?

 

[pianistclare]

This is dead-on, and I often wonder what our parishes were like if so many good people with gifts and talents had not been siphoned off.

I have a theory. Paul speaks of the God’s mercy toward the Gentiles creating jealousy (good kind) among the Jews. I sometimes wonder if the success of Protestantism is being allowed for a time to create jealousy among Catholics who may have grown complacent.

Make sense?

Oh yeah…I think many Catholics are complacent. I have a theory too…LOL
But I’m not going to advance it here.

However, for ex:
Our parish noticed that the children at a nearby trailer park were probably hungry without the free school lunches. So we got together, people donated hundred of loaves of bread, cases of fresh fruit, gave money for vast amounts of ham and turkey, cheeses, cases of chips, granola bars, and bottled water by the case, and we made lunches all summer, taking note of the kids who had various allergies, and delivered them. In the process, the K of C noticed trailers in great disrepair, and they went over and fixed them. The teens noticed the kids had a dirty vacant lot to play in, and they fixed it up. The seniors noticed that the clubhouse needed paint, and they painted it, and the residents we told they didn’t 'have" to attend our church in return. Previous congregations also brought busses with them and they were wary of our “generosity” at first. I vividly remember one little boy asking me if I would consider cooking him a hot dog even if he didn’t come to my church.
Poor kid. He learned that fellowship comes at a price.
But we stayed and changed the dynamic. And made friends!!!
And yet, out parish is still relatively small. Meanwhile, the neighboring parish who does less outreach, is packed. People say they want all this, but do they really?
I guess some people just want to go, get their obligation in, say “hi” to Jesus and go home.
But if they hung around, they’re big fun in helping out. Hands and feet of Christ and all that.

 

[BernadetteM]

It seems that most of the posts are speaking in general about protestant churches being so friendly. Of course many are and this is also true in many Catholic parishes. Since I am a convert I have seen both sides and I am speaking of my own experiences.

There is a large difference in most protestant churches and Catholic ones. The size and the number of services. In most protestant churches there is only one or two services and the number of members doesn’t usually exceed 200 and less in many, whereas in Catholic churches there are usually at least 2000 and I know one where there are 22,000 members (this is not average as usually 4000-5000 members seems the norm). It Is difficult to know if someone is actually a new member or visitor as there are probably 4 or 5 Masses on Sunday and one vigil Mass on Saturday.

It is great when there is sincere love for one another in any church, but there are also many times agendas behind this “love”. While one attends that church or maybe must move and find another protestant church they all can stay friends, when a person converts to the Catholic Church, many times the friendship ends. I don’t call this love. I have never seen this in the Catholic Church, yes there will be sadness, but that does not stop the true friendship. This has happened in my life. The Catholic Church’s teaching is that we don’t know where one goes after death, although I have read some non Catholic churches claim Catholics go to Hell. Maybe an individual has this belief, however, they are going against the Churches teaching. I find the Catholic Church as the most charitable in regards to judging God’s final judgment. Of course, we have the obligation to condemn sinful actions, as that is scriptural, but to still love the sinner.

Also mega churches have the same problems as Catholic ones (although I feel Catholic Churches are and were the first “mega” churches if we are speaking members). There are so many people that the only way one can make friends is to be assigned a group or choose a group where they meet and become friends in mega churches.

As many have stated they go to church to receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus which is as close as one can get to Christ. Entertainment (which I have attended some of these modern protestant churches) is what draws many in and to be honest I guess Catholics and Orthodox have a very different idea of what “worshipping Christ” means.

Of course it would be wonderful if we all could know everyone and be there for them, however, the world today is very different than when the Christian Church began.

Most Catholic parishes have several different groups that one can become active in, yes you have to actually decide to take action and join, but many are not really interested and I have noticed on CAF that many who complain do nothing, they wait for someone to approach them instead of taking the first step.

I am sure that many on CAF have their own experiences of non Catholic parishes, this has been mine.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[pianistclare]

It seems that most of the posts are speaking in general about protestant churches being so friendly. Of course many are and this is also true in many Catholic parishes. Since I am a convert I have seen both sides and I am speaking of my own experiences.

There is a large difference in most protestant churches and Catholic ones. The size and the number of services. In most protestant churches there is only one or two services and the number of members doesn’t usually exceed 200 and less in many, whereas in Catholic churches there are usually at least 2000 and I know one where there are 22,000 members (this is not average as usually 4000-5000 members seems the norm). It Is difficult to know if someone is actually a new member or visitor as there are probably 4 or 5 Masses on Sunday and one vigil Mass on Saturday.

It is great when there is sincere love for one another in any church, but there are also many times agendas behind this “love”. While one attends that church or maybe must move and find another protestant church they all can stay friends, when a person converts to the Catholic Church, many times the friendship ends. I don’t call this love. I have never seen this in the Catholic Church, yes there will be sadness, but that does not stop the true friendship. This has happened in my life. The Catholic Church’s teaching is that we don’t know where one goes after death, although I have read some non Catholic churches claim Catholics go to Hell. Maybe an individual has this belief, however, they are going against the Churches teaching. I find the Catholic Church as the most charitable in regards to judging God’s final judgment. Of course, we have the obligation to condemn sinful actions, as that is scriptural, but to still love the sinner.

Also mega churches have the same problems as Catholic ones (although I feel Catholic Churches are and were the first “mega” churches if we are speaking members). There are so many people that the only way one can make friends is to be assigned a group or choose a group where they meet and become friends in mega churches.

As many have stated they go to church to receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus which is as close as one can get to Christ. Entertainment (which I have attended some of these modern protestant churches) is what draws many in and to be honest I guess Catholics and Orthodox have a very different idea of what “worshipping Christ” means.

Of course it would be wonderful if we all could know everyone and be there for them, however, the world today is very different than when the Christian Church began.

Most Catholic parishes have several different groups that one can become active in, yes you have to actually decide to take action and join, but many are not really interested and I have noticed on CAF that many who complain do nothing, they wait for someone to approach them instead of taking the first step.

I am sure that many on CAF have their own experiences of non Catholic parishes, this has been mine.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Excellent post. I have a relatively small parish, but often I miss seeing some of my favorite folks because they go to a different Mass.
Indeed, people often say they never see me, even though I work 12 hours at the church every Sunday. but I’m busy! Teaching their kids! LOL
thanks for pointing this out.

 

[nocoastlayman]

Belonging to a chruch that is friendly is so important - Some RCC are very friendly and others not so much . The same can be of the Lutheran church’s , whom my mother always believed seemed to be so much more friendly than a catholic Church .

Be yes I agree friendliness is vital

My mother seems to believe the same thing. Granted in my mom’s experience she married my dad and moved to the small town where he was from where everyone’s catholic and is suspicious of newcomers no matter who they are or what church they go to.

I think when it got tough for my mom was when she wanted to help out with things and people would tell her “Oh so and so does this” and they’d basically tell her just to leave them alone. I wonder if maybe there’s a dynamic in this where Catholic parishes receive relatively few converts or new members, they are less “friendly”

 

[pianistclare]

My mother seems to believe the same thing. Granted in my mom’s experience she married my dad and moved to the small town where he was from where everyone’s catholic and is suspicious of newcomers no matter who they are or what church they go to.

I think when it got tough for my mom was when she wanted to help out with things and people would tell her “Oh so and so does this” and they’d basically tell her just to leave them alone. I wonder if maybe there’s a dynamic in this where Catholic parishes receive relatively few converts or new members, they are less “friendly”

you’ve hit upon something…I notice that our beloved older ladies at church tend to “hoard” their ministries. We had a “ministry fair” recently, and I heard many of them saying that they secretly hoped that not many people would sign up for linens, altar care, church cleaning, etc. because they have a set way they like it done. I had stern words for them. People who head up ministries MUST allow newcomers to join in. If you have a certain routine, fine, but SHARE it.
I don’t think this is what people are talking about though. I think they are commenting more on the services, not the groups within the churches. But a fair point.