Friends says God is telling her to. What do I say?

[Forest-Pine]

My friend says God told her to marry a jerk she’s known for a couple months. She wants to know how to discern if she really is getting this message from God. I don’t know what to tell her.

---

I have a protestant friend (not sure which denomination) who has asked my help. She is extrememly shy and has not dated much. The couple guys she has had crushes on and/or relationships with have not turned out so well. She usually puts too much into it that isn’t there. She honestly is ready to be married and will make a wonderful wife. The whole dating thing is not something she is ready for. (She’s in her late 20s.)

So the problem is this jerk of a guy whom she dated for all of 2 weeks. He treated her in a not-so-Christian way, then dumped her when she wouldn’t have sex with him. She pins all the blame on herself. She tagged after him like a puppy dog after he broke up with her, begging him to explain what happened and to just “stay friends.” He’s shown a little interest in her since. (No kidding, huh?)

So she’s prayed to God asking him to guide her. She said God told her that this guy (by name) is the one she is going to marry and that she already knows that, among other such things. She now is wondering if God would really be saying this to her. Her preacher told her to seek guidance in friends. I honestly don’t know what to say.

How is one to discern if a message is from the Lord? (Further prayer seems to be an unwise criteria in the circumstances, but what else is there to say?)

 

[JimG]

Tell her this is not the way God works. Rather than paying attention to alleged private revelations, maybe she should take her advice from Dr. Laura. Or from you.

 

[canne]

JimG:

Tell her this is not the way God works. Rather than paying attention to alleged private revelations, maybe she should take her advice from Dr. Laura. Or from you.

Yeah That! also tell her God would not tell her to marry someone who treats her poorly, dumped her for not having premartial sex and so forth. Your friend needs guidance and professional counseling as her judgement is way off base.

 

[Forest-Pine]

Yes, well, that seems a bit obvious to us. But my simply saying, “God doesn’t work like that.” I have a feeling will not hold much weight when on the other hand is her direct revelation from God. How do I show that God doesn’t work like that?

 

[Genesis315]

1 Cor. 6:13 But having the same recompense, (I speak as to my children,) be you also enlarged. 14 Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?

The word of God says differently than her private revelation. Sometimes the devil comes as an angel of light. She may think it’s God but it might actually be the devil.

 

[JimG]

Maybe you should get her the book: “Ten Stupid Things that Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives.”

I haven’t even read it; but it’s got to be better than the advice that she is supposedly getting from “God.”

She sounds like a prime example of women who pick the wrong men.

 

[Forest-Pine]

1 Cor. 6:13 But having the same recompense, (I speak as to my children,) be you also enlarged. 14 Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?

The word of God says differently than her private revelation. Sometimes the devil comes as an angel of light. She may think it’s God but it might actually be the devil.

Genesis, Thanks so much for the quote! Unfortunately, the guy has all the trappings of being a “wonderful” Christian. I know, I know… His actions speak louder than his words. Unfortunately, his talk of going into ministry is part of why she needs to change to be good enough for the guy and his future vocation, which is why God apparently seperated them so she could grow some more (and we’re not talking long term). What do you say to THAT?

JimG:

Maybe you should get her the book: “Ten Stupid Things that Women Do To Mess Up Their Lives.”

I haven’t even read it; but it’s got to be better than the advice that she is supposedly getting from “God.”

She sounds like a prime example of women who pick the wrong men.

Ha ha ha! I was thinking The Good News about Sex and Marriage. I haven’t read it. The angle of what a marriage entails might open the discussion to his not being able to commit to that. Her choices aren’t so much usually so bad, but just so… spontaneous. She falls hard for a guy and “knows” it is THE guy without actually knowing them or what they are about. She then takes YEARS to move on. It is very difficult for her, and I don’t know what to say or do.

Unfortunately, I was in much the same situation when I married: I was ready to be a good wife, but was never cut out for the dating world. I just married my best friend. We started dating after we planned to marry. I was so, SO blessed to have married a wonderful guy. I mean, he has his faults, but his focus is on our relationship and the Lord. Every time I get angry with him, I see how other men treat their wives and marriages and I am overcome with gratitude that I married such a great guy. I wish the same for her. I just don’t know how to impart what a true Christian marriage is without her idealizing this guy to fit the role based on what he says.

Any other verses you can think of to back up how marriage should be?

 

[canne]

You know if you are trying to convince her God is not talking to her you are going to have a hard time and I don’t think presenting her with scripture is going to change that. Why? Because she wants to believe God is telling her to do this, because she is clearly lacking common sense and just the few things you mentioned indicate she has emotional problems that need to be addressed. There are many scripture references to marriage in the bible, they aren’t hard to find. I think your friend needs your prayers and professional guidance, I hope she gets it.

 

[Forest-Pine]

canne:

You know if you are trying to convince her God is not talking to her you are going to have a hard time and I don’t think presenting her with scripture is going to change that. Why? Because she wants to believe God is telling her to do this, because she is clearly lacking common sense and just the few things you mentioned indicate she has emotional problems that need to be addressed. There are many scripture references to marriage in the bible, they aren’t hard to find. I think your friend needs your prayers and professional guidance, I hope she gets it.

Yes, she is in counselling. She’s not crazy, I can tell you that. She simply has a lot of pressure on her to grow up and be little, and has very low self-esteem. She regularly meets with her spiritual director. However, I am her friend. I am concerned for her. The way that I can best witness to her is my concern. The psychologist can do her job, and the preacher his, and hopefully all will give her the same message from different perspectives. But as much as some counsellor can talk about it, she really needs to hear it come from me–someone who understands her and is thinking about her soul and who has nothing to gain. I am just at such a loss as to how to go about doing so. I thought I might get some inspiration here.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Forest-Pine:

Yes, well, that seems a bit obvious to us. But my simply saying, “God doesn’t work like that.” I have a feeling will not hold much weight when on the other hand is her direct revelation from God. How do I show that God doesn’t work like that?

Forest-Pine

I think you need to get her to talk, and to get her reasoning out in the open.

I would try saying, “Why would the Lord tell you to marry a man who’s a fornicator or an adulterer at best and a rapist at worst?” (Remember, he tried to make her have sex with him and then dumped her when she wouldn’t)

Follow that up with, “Assume he doesn’t change. Can you picture what it’s going to be like when he runs out on you and the kids? or, When he runs out on you while you’re pregnant? and, Then claims that it was all your fault?” (It’s in the pattern)

We know that God wants the best for his children. does the above sound like the best for her in any way, shape, manner ot form?

*Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body. As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

So (also) husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body.

“For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church. In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband. Ephesians 5:22-33. NAB *

I just saw your question, and that’s the first answer from scripture - Then there’s the whole book of TOBIT. Don’t you think she’d rather have a husband who loved her like Jesus loves the Church?

I saw the bit where you mentioned the guy was talking about studying for the ministry, and that was how he justified treating your friend in the shabby way he did.

Your friend needs someone who realizes what a treasure she is, not someone who’s always going to be putting her down or trying to say that some serious sin was her fault.

I hope you can find something that works to keep her from attaching herself to this man. Tell her that any guy who would demand that she have sex with him and who would then dump her is no Christian, no matter what he’s studying for. I was once like this man, and I think he’s only going to break her heart if she persists.

I think he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, and I’m sorry your friend ever got mixed up with him.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

canne:

You know if you are trying to convince her God is not talking to her you are going to have a hard time and I don’t think presenting her with scripture is going to change that. Why? Because she wants to believe God is telling her to do this, because she is clearly lacking common sense and just the few things you mentioned indicate she has emotional problems that need to be addressed. There are many scripture references to marriage in the bible, they aren’t hard to find. I think your friend needs your prayers and professional guidance, I hope she gets it.

canne:

The problem isn’t whether Forest-Pines’ friend is hearing something or someone telling her what to do - The problkem is, as I see, who’s doing the talking. We can convince ourelfves that God id talking to us when it’s either ourselves or the Devil. This is esp. true in people who have very low Self-esteem and whose spiritual tradition doesn’t have the models we Catholics have to compare the “Private Revelations” to.

You, Forest-Pine or I may hear a similar message, and, after running it through our own filters, we’ll talk to priests and spiritual directors. If we couldn’t demonstrate why God would want us to do something that would make us totally miserable, thy could show us why the “Private Revelations” were nonesense and weren’t from God, and then we could ignore them and go on our way (telling the Devil were he could stow his ideas while we were at it) in spite of any self-image problems we might have.

I don’t think Forest-Pines’ friend has a spiritual tradition that helps her to do that. That’s a real advantage to Catholicsim that we take for granted.

Canne, for all we know, Forest Pines’ friend usually operates with loads of common sense, but dating and all that strip that away - It’s an artificial situation. That’s why Orthodox Jews still use “matchmakers” and “arranged” marriages. That’s why several therapists and counselors have tried to change the whole dating set-up with things like “Speed-Dating” and e-Harmony.

I think that, once Forest-Pines’ friend has extricated herself from this horrible situation, she might want to use one of those services and forget about conventional dating.

Meanwhile. Forest- Pines and the rest of this lady’s friends have to help her see that she’s a beloved child of God for whom Jesus died who really doesn’t deserve to be martried to an (uncharitable term) who’s going to treat her like dirt.

I don’t see how heaping criticism on someone whose low self-esteem has caused her to believe that this is really what God wants for her is going to help.

In Christ, Michael

 

[JimG]

Here’s the book. Maybe you should read it, then explain it to her over coffee.

 

[Forest-Pine]

Here’s the book. Maybe you should read it, then explain it to her over coffee.

One of the reviews says a main topic is “Who is really responsible for birth control?” Is Dr. Laura pro-choice? Pro-contraception?

 

[Siena]

She says she’s ment to marry him. Does he even want to marry her???

 

[JimG]

Forest-Pine:

One of the reviews says a main topic is “Who is really responsible for birth control?” Is Dr. Laura pro-choice? Pro-contraception?

I don’t think she is pro-choice; I’m not sure about contraception. I looked over some of the chapter headings. They are things like:

“Stupid attachment”
“Stupid Courtship”
“Stupid Devotion”
“Stupid Cohabitation”
“Stupid Expectations”

 

[Forest-Pine]

Siena:

She says she’s ment to marry him. Does he even want to marry her???

Oh yes. From the day he met her he was talking about what he expected from her if she was to be his wife. I don’t want to go into it, but they were demands that were not inherently wrong but that my friend could not meet (nor would 95% of women). She now also thinks this might have been God’s way to tell her that she needs to grow to be able to do these things. She is one of those people who believes that God’s hand is directly moving every person around like on a chess board I think. I just keep finding myself thinking, “If only I could share Catholicism with her!” then she would have the fullness of truth to rely on and would be emboldened and strengthened and guided. It is a lot more difficult to do over emails.

 

[Tibbar]

JimG:

Tell her this is not the way God works.

Really? Didn’t God tell Hosea to take a prostitute for a wife?

Hosea 1:1
"The word of Yahweh that came to Hosea the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel. 1:2 When Yahweh spoke at first by Hosea, Yahweh said to Hosea, “Go, take for yourself a wife of prostitution and children of unfaithfulness; for the land commits great adultery, forsaking Yahweh.”

 

[Andrea22]

Forest-Pine:

Oh yes. From the day he met her he was talking about what he expected from her if she was to be his wife. I don’t want to go into it, but they were demands that were not inherently wrong but that my friend could not meet (nor would 95% of women).

Can you give us one example?

 

[Forest-Pine]

Tibbar:

Really? Didn’t God tell Hosea to take a prostitute for a wife?

But how did Hosea know it was God, and not his own inner voice? How are we to know if God is telling us, “Take little Mary over to little Katie’s house and take some raisin cookies with you.” or if it is just our thoughts?

 

[Forest-Pine]

Andrea22:

Can you give us one example?

No, I don’t feel comfortable doing that. They are pretty “out there” and would possibly identify my friend or the guy.

This is not anything like it (and no where near as big an issue), but an example would be expecting her to live in a communal house with all his extended relatives. There is nothing “wrong” with his request, but it is also something most women would not feel comfortable with. Again, his requests are of much greater proportion, but comparative.