Friendship Awkardness Question

[Konohage]

Hey all,

First off, to put it in context,** I am a 20 (soon to be 21) year old female college student, the friend I refer to here is also 20 years old and male**, and we attend the same university. We met in 2010 in a class there. On to the question…

Alright, here’s the situation, I was just wondering if I could get some Catholic opinions.

My friend, I’ll call him Dave, initially wanted to date me. I had no interest in him in that way, and still do not, so I told him that we could be friends and that I meant him no ill will, and he agreed. We started meeting up occasionally to eat lunch and chat, etc.

We have met up a couple of times, not many, outside of class. We’ve been to see a few movies, as well as to a museum once, and a play once. All of this over the course of two years.

Now, here is the problem: we don’t really have that much in common. It’s pretty awkward. I don’t think he realizes how awkward it actually is, but I do. Unless we’re talking about life issues, such as relationships or family issues, I generally feel like I’m pretending to be interested in whatever he’s saying for the sake of politeness, because I really don’t want to make him feel bad. He’s kind of sensitive when it comes to girls.

Bigger problem: I’m 97% sure he still has feelings for me. He has admitted this on a few occasions, and I have always replied the same way, telling him that I am not interested in him in that way. I’ve been slowly attempting to distance us, because I think it’s a problem.

So, he asked me to hang out again, to go do something after midterms are over. I really don’t want to, I’m not gonna lie. I have nothing against him, I truly believe he is a kind person. But I also know that it just doesn’t feel right.

Advice on how I should reply? Like I said, I’ve been keeping my distance, only really chatting with him via email for the past month.
**
Has anyone else ever been in a similar situation? If so, how did you handle it in a Godly manner?** Some less religious people in my life have been telling me to cease contacting him completely, which I think would be pretty rude.

 

[asd72]

I have been in the guys situation ( although I am female), and it was Ok until my guy found someone else, then I fell apart, not in front of him but privately. I guess slightly different situation because we dated briefly before.

I don’t know what to advise, but you are obviously sensitive to his feelings and don’t want to hurt him. It’s difficult I know.

 

[Ellyakamommy]

The internet ate my first reply, so to summarize.

It sounds like you want him to ‘like’ you–as in think well of you, but not like you–as in being romantically interested in you.

I’m not sure if it’s possible to acheive immediately. My roommate in college was very pretty adn very sweetly tempered and each semester, there was a new boy that became interested whose interest she did not return. From first hand experience…

For friends that are obviously only friends, the plays etc can be simly fun outings. For someone with feelings for another, it is hoped that it is a date and nutures the false hope that one day you will return his romantic feelings. am 100% sure he stil has feelings for you, or he wouldn’t be trying to see you one on one. He seeks you out singly because he has romantic feelings for you.

If you continue as you are, perhaps at some point he will end his crush, but it will be with the belief that you ‘sent mixed signals’, ‘led him on,’ or ‘kept him around for the attention.’ At that point, he will no longer like you, but he won’t ‘like’ you either.

The true kindness will be to limit contact to classtime and happenstance encounters (which are unavoidable at university) and not initiate or accept conversations, invitations to outings, emails etc. This sends a clear signal that there is no hope of a romantic attachment. Additionally, by severely limiting contact, you allow him the space for him to get over his crush, and develop an interest in someone who could return his feelings. While he might not think it for awhile, he may come to appreciate that you were clear and firm with him, and respect you for it.

Additionally, it sounds like you’ve spent quite a bit of time thinking this over and seeking advice. Wouldn’t it be lovely to be able to devote yourself to other pursuits?

 

[VonDerTann]

OP – Sorry, there is no ‘good’ way to handle this.

The problem, in all candor, arose from 2 sources:

1. Guys should never ‘pursue’ a woman who says, ‘let’s just be friends.’ Your friend pursued you…
2. …and you let him. Going to a movie, a museum, etc., is basically "going on a date,’ particularly if those outings were just the 2 of you. You have, in a way, been dating him (or he may think so, at least), such that he now has real feelings for you.

At this point, if you are really, really at a stage where you’d rather do other things with other people – and you clearly are – you have to basically end it with him, period, since the ‘friends thing’ hasn’t worked (and rarely does). I’m sorry he’s sensitive…but he’s gotta deal with it, because the alternative is to have him yolked to you at a time when you should be, frankly, meeting other people. Heck, being rejected is IMHO part of growing up. You can let him down easy, not be harsh, etc…but you should end it nonetheless.

What you would be doing, IMHO, is the best thing for you, and him. Nick Lowe said it best: “You gotta be cruel to be kind” (and you’re likely too young to know who that is!.") There are easier ways to do it than by being cruel per se. Maybe you just don’t call him for a while. Maybe you tell him you’d like to meet some other people. You can be kind, and respectful, but it needs to be done. There are no easy ways to do, that which should be done…but it sounds like that needs doing, and I suspect you know that.

Good luck.

 

[Irishmom2]

The problem, in all candor, arose from 2 sources:

1. Guys should never ‘pursue’ a woman who says, ‘let’s just be friends.’ Your friend pursued you…
2. …and you let him. Going to a movie, a museum, etc., is basically "going on a date,’ particularly if those outings were just the 2 of you. You have, in a way, been dating him (or he may think so, at least), such that he now has real feelings for you.

I agree. You may have been thinking you are just friends, but he was always hoping it would become more. I am not sure why you even went to these events, when you find him to not be so interesting, as evidenced by your “pretending to be interested in what he is saying.” For Pete’s sake, why are you even there with him? You are clearly not all that interested in being a friend.

Please, be charitable and cut this guy loose in a nice way. May God bless you and guide you.

 

[chevalier]

Hey, Konohage. I’ve been on both sides of that situation. I very well know the part of the man who is attracted but hears, “let’s just be friends,” and I’ve had to deal with unrequited attraction on the part of a lady or two whose affection I was unable to return.

Firstly, as you noted, no lying. While it is immoral or at least of questionable morality, it is also readable. I don’t think men are as bad at hints and clues etc. as they are given credit for being (and some men are cops, salesmen etc., they know how to read people’s behaviour). All of us can probably recall a situation when someone important to us (e.g. a parent or teacher) lied to us and we were able to read it. We surely weren’t happy about that, were we? So no lying. Not even “white lying”.

As a young man, I heard all the excuses like, “not ready for commitment at this stage,” “not enough time for a social life,” etc. In one case I bumped into the lady in question on the following day when she was having a good time with a different guy guy. I was very young and already hurt, took it very hard. My ability to rationalise was limited. It was a blow. This kind of thing potentially makes it harder for people to form healthy relationships in the future with someone else who might actually like them “that way” or it may condition them to expect to be lied to, disrespected, emotionally abused. So, ladies, if you don’t want jerks to be there, don’t help make them. Or rather help avoid making them. Sign the Geneva Convention now!

The way a man is “wired” (and I’m narrating here, not using the “wiring” as an excuse), he will keep persisting even when he is initially rebuffed (he has been conditioned that way, also by women, more on which later). Don’t roll your eyes yet or cast judgement yet! – Women do appreciate this quality in men when and if they are ultimately swayed by those men’s persistence (and some women actually say no just so men would try harder, as silly as this is). This is hardly an objective criterion because the man who ultimately wins and the man who suffers another defeat are actually doing the same thing: fighting on despite being rejected initially. It’s impossible for a man to fulfil both of the expectations: to persevere undeterred by refusal or rejection, while also giving space and respecting a woman’s wishes. (You can’t show yourself as a man so tenacious and faithful to your feelings as to keep fighting for a woman who is actually rejecting you, while also showing yourself as the man who will respect her wishes to stop being wooed. You can have both qualities in a general sense, i.e. be both persevering/undaunted and respectful/accommodating, but you can’t be exhibiting both at the same time.) Please note that this is just to give you a little vision of how a man thinks, I really, really don’t want you to feel bad for other women or feel pity for men or anything of the sort! Just make some good use of the knowledge.

But, speaking about how men are wired, men are somewhat likely to see flirting where the woman doesn’t see it (even a smile from an attractive woman, actually). I don’t know if there are any behaviours that women see as flirting and men don’t (I think it’s likely) but there are some situations when the man thinks the woman is flirting, while the woman thinks she’s only being nice. Actually, neither of them is necessarily in the right: the woman’s assessment of the situation may be flawed too. Also, every human is prone to wishful thinking. This includes even people in dangerous, responsible jobs (e.g. there was that situation with a plane flying to Florida for a nice, warm holiday out of a bad weather plagued city in the North… they wanted it so bad that they misassessed the conditions and the plane didn’t make it). It’s very easy for someone (regardless of his or her sex: a woman feeling unrequited attraction or love is equally exposed) to cast hopes on ambiguous signs or even those that only a naive person would interpret as being mixed signals. This is because people who want something so much they submit to wishful thinking become rather naive.

Also, some people may actually push for mixed signals situations and then use those situations as leverage in order to “convince” the other person that he or she is actually attracted… or just to make that person agree to a relationship. This is unhealthy. One can’t give any such concessions to an attracted person. The attracted person may be saying this is nothing or just a little thing to make them happier, next day he or she may be using it as an argument, thinking he or she has some rights now that you have done X together (e.g. watched a film together, went to a dance as a couple etc.). This is shameful for men. It would be dishonourable conduct if it were conscious and premeditated.

So, yes, it is important to avoid mixed signals and it is also important to send very clear signals that you aren’t interested but without making the man feel inadequate or not good enough (don’t say anything is wrong with you, either, nothing is wrong with anybody: it’s just that the attraction is not mutual, which happens). A man can take a no if it is a strong and consistent no, supported by facts and not only by words. If a woman keeps preserving her boundaries, which includes not using “just friends” for somewhat romantic emotional needs (stargazing, strolling down the park, lots of hugging, fishing for compliments), her no sounds credible and may cause a man to back off or actually turn off the charm and just be a friend. Otherwise the no will not sound credible.

 

[chevalier]

Limiting contact may work but I would consider telling the man what it is going on. A man is not stupid and he will know that he is being avoided. This doesn’t require a big social sense, basic intelligence that even a hunter-gatherer possesses is enough to know that you’re being avoided. (You don’t want to underestimate a man’s intelligence any more than you want to suggest that he’s a wimp physically. Intelligence is what makes a good hunter, i.e. provider, so this would be a bit like undermining a woman’s caring side or caretaking ability.)

Don’t be frank enough to hurt his self-esteem too much (you can’t avoid people suffering a self-esteem blow if they just simply don’t like something, and it isn’t your fault; but you can avoid some specific things that can be rationally expected to hurt them more than just a simple refusal), let alone provoke him to need to prove himself (you don’t want him to get the idea that if he works harder and shows more manliness he will win your heart). Basically, I think a man can take a decisive no from a woman but not when she’s being too blunt, let alone offensive. There are some limits, since men are human too and actually have feelings that can be hurt, even if they won’t admit this themselves. It may perhaps help if you avoid a somber or solemn mood while you are delivering the bad news (which amplifies the impression that the rejected person is being read a sentence).

Bottom line comes down to three words: clarity, consistency, respect (all of which you can demand from the man too).

I realise I’ve just given you a lot of “how tos”. I don’t want you to have the impression that all of this is something you need to do, especially while a man is actually not making you feel respected or treated fairly. You have the right to require a man, any man, every man, to respect your boundaries and to respect you. But since we all want to do to others as we want to be done unto, I believe this perspective may be of help to you in knowing what can be important from a man’s point of view. We could write a similar write-up for men how to deal with women who happen to be unilaterally interested, it would also be somewhat long.

 

[chevalier]

Argh, I’ve run out of time to edit the post above and I wanted to be a little clearer and give you some more practical advice as to what to do with Dave. Here’s what I was typing:

Definitely don’t give Dave any concessions in what he could read as a sign of even potential romantic interest. Don’t allow him to make the situation ambiguous (or yourself, should you ever for a moment feel attracted to Dave in the short run despite not wanting him as your boyfriend in the long run). Put your foot down quickly and decisively whenever Dave is suggesting anything romantic, and be assertive about it. You can be kind without giving in an inch to his demands, which is the route you should take with him. Give him a cooldown time if he can’t stop pushing the boundaries (up to cutting contact entirely if he crosses the line, he can be expected to act like a responsible adult after all) or if you can’t put up with his behaviour any more. Tell him you respect him but you also need him to respect you. Don’t be soft, he is a man. You need to be friendly but firm and when in doubt, be firm, just don’t give him more of a cold shoulder than is really needed and don’t add insult to injury.

 

[smswife]

Tell him firmly and clearly that you will not be going on any more outings with him because you have realized that to continue to do so has been inadvertently been giving him false hope of a future romantic relationship with you. Make sure he’s clear that there is NO HOPE for that.

Tell him you wish him well but it’s time for you both to move on.

And if he still wants to see you, keep telling him no. It’s not kindness to keep seeing him when you feel the way you do about him. He deserves to have a chance to find someone who actually likes him!

He’ll get over you a lot faster if you don’t keep seeing him. And yes, those events you described surely were dates to him.

Reading this sounds harsh and I don’t mean it that way. You are both young, and I know it’s hard at your age to figure these things out while still trying to be kind and charitable.

Good luck!

 

[Castello]

Agree with everything Chev said above.

One added bit of advice, he is a good guy, right? Then, fix him up with one of your friends. You know who he might mesh with.

 

[cmscms]

“You gotta be cruel to be kind”

You took the words right out of my mouth.

And, as a semi older woman (who has often been to confession), now that I am older, I see right through the game young girls play (maybe not consciously). There is a lot of competition among young girls to have a lot of guy friends that are just friends. It is almost a status thing to have a man spend time with you when ‘he is not getting’ any. Also, among girl talk, it is considered cool to say ‘I get along better with guys’. It is as if the ‘guys are better than woman’ mentality still exist so most woman want to think of themselves as the exception that does not fit into the woman category.

OP, I am not trying to be hard or judge you. I sympathize with the pressures young woman face and thus the reason to keep guy friends around. And that is why I caution you, be careful. One day this guy is going to wake up and find a real girlfriend and you will be CRUSHED that your ego boost is gone. Not to mention, good luck finding a good boyfriends if you are seen stringing this guy around

CM